DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Paul DePodesta joining Browns as Chief Strategy Officer

I'm intrigued by this hire. I think many head coaches in this league are just simply terrible when it comes to numbers and analytics. As someone else mentioned, this can be useful in a very wide range of instances in sports.

For example, many head coaches need all the help they can get in regards to game management. Being that this is an analytics guy, I already know some of his viewpoints e.g. regularly go for it on 4th and short and go for it more often on 4th downs in general. Hopefully some of these ideas trickle down to the coaching staff and hopefully the fans don't roast the regime when it occasionally backfires.

Just that 4th down strategy alone is good for about +1 win a year (that is win about two games that would have been lost with more conventional strategy, and lose one game that would have been won. Those are very rough averages of course.)

Perhaps, but the Browns had the right guy in place to fix things, his name was Joe Banner and our dumb owner drove him away.

Banner quit because he didn't want to fire Chud, Norv Turner, and Horton....Banner did the same thing here he did in Philly, hired a young up and coming guy and surrounded him with quality coordinators expecting to 3-4 years to fix things..our meddling owner knee jerked and pulled the plug after just one year...Banner was over it at that point, its no secret he called Haslam and Schreiner idiots and morons on Twitter for good reason.

I doubt this guy lasts a year, our meddling owner can't stay out of things. Haslam is worse then Al Davis ever was. He's far too involved in things and simply doesn't know what he is doing, and he is hiring and promoting guys that don't know what they are doing.

This whole thing screams of desperation because no other NFL GM candidate wants to come here...I also think we will have a hard time finding a coach too.

honestly, as bad as things were this year..Haslam should have stayed the course with Pettine....cut Johnny Football, perhaps made a few small staff changes, but should have stuck with Pettine and Co moving forward.

Pettine won 7 games last year, its not uncommon to take a few steps back in year 2 order to take giant leaps in year 3. This was just another knee jerk.

cleaning house every two years is not going to suddenly make you a winner, and Pettine didn't do anything IMO to be fired, and him making his lockeroom accountable for acting like dolts was praised by guys like Cowher, Marty, Dungry, etc...all HOF coaches commeneded Pettine for making JM accountable to his team.

Long story short, our next coach will probably be worse the Pettine...we didn't give Pettine a chance to grow anything here, just like we didn't give Chud a chance...i see no reason the next guys won't be 1-2 years the out because our owner does nothing but knee jerk and meddle in the team that he don't understand.

just my 2 cents.

You realize banner was an analytics guy too right?

The Houston Rockets were the first big analytics team when they hired David Maroney (sp?). Now most NBA teams use analytics. The 76ers example is a bad one because they are tanking on purpose to get draft picks as part there plan.....heck they've pitched to the owner as that. Think the Astros model in baseball.

I guess we'll hire everyone but football guys to run a football team.

we can always hire a horse jockey to be our GM.

I can't and won't say this will not work. Stranger things have happened. But let me state what it looks like on the surface to me......

Haslam is trying to be the smartest man in the room at something he's new at. Rather than admit he's simply made poor choices on his hires to date and moving forward with a pure football strategy the way most franchises are built, he'd rather feel that it wasn't him, but the standard process itself that is flawed.

Look, most of us as fans didn't want JFF and it didn't take analytics to figure it out. So now we're facing an owner who feels he knows how to be so innovative that nobody else has even thought of it. That he alone knows how to reinvent how to build a winner.

Now maybe that isn't how this will all work out. Maybe this idea will work. But to say I have very strong reservations is putting it mildly.

Well, let's remember, he has all those "smart" Harvard folks squawking in his ear. Problem is, way too often, those types have little to no common sense.

Somewhere Jim Brown is staring into oblivion.

Yup

Haslam very short but drama filled past here with Cleveland..it don't bode well.

Johnny is the best example of that...wasn't it Haslam that told a newspaper that a Homeless guy told him he had to draft Manziel?..i mean...how do you go forward from that? honestly?

I hope im wrong, but this whole thing screams of desperation...there probably isn't an NFL GM candidate thats even remotely interested in the job, and I don't blame them.

We will never know now, but i fully beleive had we stuck with either Chud or Pettine for 4 years, i think things would have gotten better, but now we will never know

Banner didn't quit.

Well you can say Banner was fired, but he has made it no secret that he also resigned, its still a moot point. T

he point is we should actually give folks a chance instead of cleaning house every year of two.

How long you think these new guys last? i give up 1.5 to 1.75 years tops....before our meddling owner pulls the plug....

It might get us the 'inside track' to a super bowl!

Haven't read all the responses, but I am excited about this approach. While it may or not work, it certainly is a bold move.

It will really be interesting to see who they bring in as the HC and Top Talen Evaluator.

Won't be surprised to see a guy like Joe Thomas traded in the off-season. May not fit in the regression models!

This is certainly going to be inserting.

I don't know how this plays out but I'll admit I'm more interested in the team as I've been since game two of this season.

It happens at least every other year.

People get excited about underqualified people making decisions that somehow convince fans that they should be excited. Then the re-runs start.....

Not sure whats getting inserted or where its getting inserted..

Hope this inserting doesn't turn out as painful as it sounds...

I hear kevin costner and dennis leary were seen together shopping for houses in strongsville....hmmm, maybe a package deal forthcoming

Didn't say excited. "Interested" was the word. It'll take a lot just to get me to watch regularly again.

ha i was just joking, but found this...looks like he's interested after all..lol

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...life-browns-job

I actually watched that movie for the second time this past weekend. While certainly no Major League, I think it gets better each time you watch it. It's not bad.

They just talked about this guy on Sports Nation... Sounds interesting.. I'm starting to get excited

j/c

I think many are jumping to the conclusion that we have a lawyer and a math freak making all the top football decisions now.

I doubt very much that's the case.

We are going to hire Obama as our coach. This seals it.

I think yours is a good viewpoint. We don't know what is going on but are bitching as though we do.

I think many are building a straw man to argue against.

What about the Spurs and Warriors?

I'm not going to predict how this will all turn out. But I believe that when the first two hiring announcements include one being a lawyer having the final say on the final 53 man roster, and one of the most famous analytical people known, (being based as the character of a sports movie), on the surface it doesn't sound good.

Now if the Browns PR department just sucks at the way things are being presented, so be it. But you bring a guy in from baseball and give the attorney a promotion and final control of the roster?

Can you really blame anyone for having strong misgivings on the face of it?

But Pit... all we've heard about is how disorganized and dysfunctional the FO has been... and now we get guys that are experts in organization and function. Do you really believe that being an expert in football has anything to do with how well someone manages?

Obviously management has to have a grasp of what their product is, but they don't have to be an expert in their product because that is not what their job is. Their job is to create the organizational structure, figure out the logistics, quality control, and ensure people don't stray away from the mission, or in this vernacular, the "alignment".

This I think is the point a lot of you guys are missing. All the time in corporate America companies hire people who have zero experience with the products in their industry to manage and rebuild their business. Back in the 90's when all those Japanese efficiency experts were hired by American companies.. no way they all were experts in the products.

Outside of the rules being different, the professional sports game day experience is basically the same across all sports.

I'm very interested in this move... I just hope this guy doesn't try to quarterback this entire process.

There's nothing wrong with someone who can provide you information in a bit of a different way. Yes, the argument can be made that advance statistics can't tell you that Justin Gilbert is a cancer, or that Johnny Manziel might skip out to vegas with a disguise... But like I said, to be able to have a team that can assemble a different portfolio for potential prospects, and even free agents... Could be a positive.

This isn't just some cocky young numbers nerd from MLB either, this guy is highly respected in that league.


I just hope that they have the stones to stick with this for a while. If you don't get immediate results next year, you know the fans and media will be coming after this method of operation, and the people running it. It will need time.

I don't know nothing about it but I like it!

I am very excited about this. Way to go Browns. Time to get away from a process that was used 70 years ago.

Anybody who wants to learn more, invest 60 minutes in to this clip. Very eye opening, but I am sure there are a lot of people who don't want to open their eyes and think outside the box and stay stuck in a process older than I.

http://www.informationweek.com/moneyball.../v/d-id/1112367

I am to and think this is going to work..

No one has been more vocal about the mess of the Browns from an organizational standpoint than Bernie Kosar. He's been preaching a "systemic failure" for the past couple of years. On a local sports show Sunday night he is a regualr guest. When asked about Sashi Brown having say over the 53 I expected Kosar to blow up. Instead he brushed it off with a low key comment saying, "That will be very flexable", as though he understands Sashi Brown will not be the Lord of the football side of the team.

I'm thinking Brown is not there to over ride the football guys decisions. Rather, he is there to be sure everyone is aligned, on the same page, and stupid things like giving Bowe $9 million guaranteed does not happen.

As someone on here said already, What does Sashi Brown know about the hips of a CB, the route running ability of a WR, the ability of a QB to read defenses and coverages and make the right throw? Nothing.

To think Haslem is going to put a guy like that in charge of the 53 is mistaken. It's only common sense. In addition, someone as smart as Brown is said to be would not take that responsibility. He knows he'd be doomed to failure. It's common sense.

Sashi Brown is the VP of Football Operations I've been wanting to see. I'd have rather it was a football guy but at least there is someone over the football side who is not the GM or the HC. Someone to keep football guys, and others, aligned so they can be of the same philosophy and work together well.

This set-up give the HC a lot of power. It makes him the BMFOC. For the past two years that guy has been Ray Farmer. Although it doesn't give the HC the authority to totally control the roster, essentially he will totally control the roster. But Brown is there to stop a Chip Kelly like breakdown before it happens.

In the story I'm making up I see it like that. That many are jumping to conclusions and knee-jerk reactions are ruling the day.

Pitt, you are pretty level headed person. I wouldn't get to hung up on all this analytical stuff. Devil makes a valid point. You don't need to be an expert at something to manage it. Your best football stars don't necessarily make best coaches. Beside, Browns aren't strangers to this analytical stuff.

Banner introduced it when he was hired. Haslam hired a guy from Dallas's staff to start up a program. I'm wondering if Haslam didn't put a whole lot of merit into it in the beginning. Farmer and Pettine may not have thought much of it either. When stat guys showed Haslam their finding and Pettine/Farmer were ignoring, it makes you think. Haslam also got burned picking Manziel. The big study he ignored passing on Bridgewater may have contributed too.

New England and Baltimore have used analytics for some time. I read an article that it isn't difficult simply time consuming gathering data. There is no data bank to get. You must gather it yourself. I don't think the Browns are doing anything state of the art. It is simply the media guys taking note since someone is hired with public awareness.

Analytics does work. It's a matter of having the right guys in place and it's hard to argue with the inventor of Moneyball.

Well, until they prove otherwise, that's exactly what we've got.

Tony Grossi ‏@TonyGrossi 7h7 hours ago
I am told Paul DePodesta and Alec Scheiner are friends. Now they are #Browns teammates.

The rebuild: Cleveland Browns make radical changes


By Conor Orr
Around The NFL Writer



When Baltimore Ravens president Dick Cass heard the Cleveland Browns promoted Sashi Brown to vice president of football operations, his immediate reaction was not competitive curiosity regarding the division rival's massive -- and unorthodox -- maneuver, one of several Cleveland would make over the coming days.


It was pride.


Cass was the head of a massive Washington D.C. law firm, Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr when Brown first joined as an associate out of Harvard Law School in 2002. The firm, where Cass handled Jerry Jones' purchase of the Dallas Cowboys, offered brilliant minds the opportunity to gravitate toward the intersection of law and professional sports. Brown showed promise in the field right away, and Cass did not hesitate to recommend him for a job with the Jacksonville Jaguars in 2005.


"He's always had good judgement," Cass told Around The NFL on Tuesday. "He's easy to get along with and he's a consensus builder. Good temperament. Doesn't fly off the handle. He's well-suited for the Browns' job, I think -- all of those qualities will serve him well."




Most importantly, as Brown prepares to run a Cleveland team that also hired former Mets executive Paul DePodesta to be their chief strategy officer, Cass sees a quality in Brown that will serve him extraordinarily well.


"Sashi is smart," Cass said. "So he knows what he doesn't know."


In that spirit, Around The NFL spoke to several executives either directly informed of the Browns' revamped power structure, or rival executives with intimate knowledge of the team's plans to help parse a week of change in Cleveland. While many are picturing Brown and DePodesta assembling a sequel to Moneyball, a book on the 2002 Oakland Athletics about the infusion of sabermetrics and analytics in baseball which featured DePodesta as a central character, the truth is slightly less complex. Coaches won't be scrolling through Pro Football Focus before drafting a player. Scouts won't be whipping out pocket calculators at the combine.


"This model averts a lot of the real trouble that festers inside organizations," one NFC executive said. "It's not like these guys are going to be calling plays. It's different, but it could work."




ORGANIZATIONAL STRUCTURE


First off, how will this work? According to a person briefed on the team's plans, here's the Browns' power structure: DePodesta and Brown are considered "one and one," or equals. They will both work directly under owner Jimmy Haslam and report to him. The team's new head coach also will report to Haslam. Once hired, the personnel director will report to Brown.


Some rival executives have lampooned Brown's position and have made some valid points against it. Since Brown has control of the 53-man roster, a team can turn down any request the Browns make to interview one of their assistants. In theory, this would make a pool of eager candidates relatively shallow and has more than likely prevented the Browns from lining up certain scouts and evaluators.


This could put the Browns at a disadvantage heading into their third straight season with two first-round draft picks, but the previous regime's setup didn't help on draft weekend, either. Between 2014-15, the team selected Justin Gilbert, Johnny Manziel, Danny Shelton and Cam Erving in the first round.


Above all else, the move seems to be considerate of recent history in Cleveland and meant to fix bigger problems.






Consider the following, an amalgamation of a few scenarios posed by those familiar with the decision:


Struggling teams often have tension between their coach and general manager. And those teams, especially ones where an owner is not in the building every day like Haslam, consistently struggle to win because the tension never goes away. Small problems create bigger problems. Coaches end up making veiled comments to the media about the roster's lack of talent. General managers disguise comments about players being out of position. Decisions don't really become decisions without motive.


Imagine, then, that Brown's job is to be the liaison in the building every day, making sure the head coach and general manager are on the same page both publicly and privately. Brown's calm and affable demeanor could be well-suited for his role, and his power will prevent a personnel czar from simply stacking the roster as they see fit. Will Brown really be picking the players on the roster, or has he simply been given the opportunity and power to settle a dispute when there is one?


For years, Brown thrived in a corporate environment with far more money -- and far, far larger egos -- at stake and earned a reputation as a problem solver. Football is often described as a world unto its own, but the basic issues of power and respect rarely change.




A BASEBALL MAN?


It is true that DePodesta was Oakland Athletics general manager Billy Beane's statistical muse during their unexpected playoff runs in the early 2000s. DePodesta helped identify devalued players with overlooked attributes and built a winner.



And while the immediate assumption is that he will revamp the club's analytics department -- which they already have -- there are far more valuable and important matters at hand, especially considering that the NFL is a salary-cap league. Teams are already on an even financial platform.


"Paul completely reorganized the Mets scouting and player development functions and had an extraordinary impact in both areas," Mets general manager Sandy Alderson said in a statement to reporters Tuesday. "But he was also very directly involved in our trade and free agent acquisitions. His commitment to excellence and his passion for innovation will be missed by the Mets and all of baseball. I wish him well with the Browns."


After the analytics swoon in baseball, every club for better or worse employed some version of what the Athletics were doing. This eventually caused a situation where the advantages were less significant for the teams that were already ahead of the curve.


What DePodesta, a former football player at Harvard, does well is look at things from a bird's eye view. When he started working under Alderson with the Mets, he aided the team's infrastructure building process and helped synchronize all facets of the organization.


On some levels, this is called "design thinking," and it has helped countless teams improve everything from morale to player development. Rather than simply being labeled as a former baseball executive, DePodesta is more like a CEO that has been brought in to aid a fledgling company.


"We are fortunate to bring in Paul, an extremely talented, highly respected sports executive who will add a critical dimension to our front office," Browns owner Jimmy Haslam said. "His approach and ambition to find the best pathways for organizational success transcend one specific sport and his experience as a high level sports executive make him a terrific addition to the Cleveland Browns."




DePodesta's fingerprints will be behind the scenes. He will check in with the diet and nutrition department regularly to see if what they are doing harmonizes with the activities players are doing on the field. He will analyze salary cap numbers to see if there is a more efficient way to structure deals or spend on free agents. Like Brown, who will aid in the synchronicity of coaching and scouting, DePodesta will do so for the entire organization.


"Paul has invaluable experience in management and leadership with a number of highly successful sports teams," Brown said in a statement. "His ability to create better processes and systems throughout organizations, his use of data as a tool to produce better outcomes, and his relentless focus on looking for innovative ways to create more success will be a strong asset as we look to be as comprehensive as possible in our decision making."




WILL IT WORK?


The Browns now have our attention, even if it is misdirected. On Tuesday, suspended wide receiver Josh Gordon tweeted that he loved the movie Moneyball. Visions of a plucky fourth-string wide receiver no one thought to unearth at Southwestern Michigan danced through our heads. More than likely, this will not happen.


The common response from evaluators and executives asked about the moves fell into three categories: "What on Earth?" "Well, if everything else fails, might as well..." and "This is brilliant." Cleveland hopes it is the latter.


Is this a last-ditch effort of an owner who has already fired too many coaches and general managers to be taken seriously? Is it the sign of a man who has employed a lot of smart non-football people, and those people have finally taken over? Or is it the start of something much more significant; a way for teams to finally compartmentalize the rapidly increasing amounts of data, analytics, talent, personalities, finances, nutrition, infrastructure and sports science that have only been maximized on an individual level?


Most importantly, is it a move that can save football in Cleveland?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...leveland-browns