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So you're mad at me for linking a show that literally rednecks for hire?

But not at the people who made the show?

Don't get mad at the messenger bro.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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FBHO- Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Oath Keepers primarily made up of current and/or retired law enforcement and other first responders? If also recall correctly, a number of them went to Ferguson and stood armed guard over several businesses during the riots.


Yes and former Military...The leader/founder of it is former Military. The couple people I know in the group I met are former military...I met them and got to know them on dealings with gun stuff.

Thats why when someone said the heard them on tv saying they admitted to breaking the law..well I knew it was not correct..they are not losing their 2nd amendment rights unless it is something much more then this.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
So you're mad at me for linking a show that literally rednecks for hire?

But not at the people who made the show?

Don't get mad at the messenger bro.

Dude, blacks call each other the N word all the time, but I can't do it (and I can't link sites that do it)...... so by the same standard, rednecks and hillbillies can call themselves that, but you can't. Seems only fair.

From now on, you can refer to me as Saltine American. thumbsup


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I dunno about saltine. Maybe alpine.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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j/c....

UPDATE:

Ammon Bundy and Five Others Arrested, and 1 Is Killed, in Rural Oregon

Ammon Bundy, the leader of an armed seizure of a federal wildlife refuge in Oregon, was arrested and one was person was killed Tuesday night in rural Oregon, the F.B.I. and the Oregon State Police said.

Five other people, including Mr. Bundy’s brother Ryan Bundy, were arrested, the authorities said.

Ammon Bundy’s group, which had adopted the name Citizens for Constitutional Freedom, has occupied a handful of buildings at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, about 30 miles southeast of Burns, in Harney County, since Jan. 2. The refuge is operated by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.

Mr. Bundy’s family became a symbol of anti-government sentiment in 2014 when his father, Cliven Bundy, inspired a standoff between armed local antigovernment activists and federal officials seeking to confiscate cattle grazing illegally on federal land in Nevada.

The occupation in Oregon began after a demonstration in support of Dwight Hammond, 73, and his son Steven Hammond, 46, who were to report to California prison after a federal judge ruled that the sentences they had served for arson were not long enough under federal law.

Link

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all that writing to tell us absolutely nothing about what happened, and what the entire article is supposedly in existence for. It's two quick lines with zero information, then nothing but rehashing background info.


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... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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Yeah, so far I haven't seen any articles with much more information... at least nothing to link now.

From what I've gleaned:

-The Feds have rounded up 7 or 8 of the groups leaders.

-I think what they did was that the Feds had warrants for arrests and when they left the property to go to these community meetings they were holding to try and garner support form the locals, the cops pulled them over on the road vs. storming the occupied building.

-I don't think the name of the person who died in the shoot out has been made public yet, but I've seen the name of Lav so and so... floated about. This would be the guy who IIRC was the one at the Bundy Standoff who afterwards said he had snipers sighted in on federal agents and would have fired if he gave the word.

-law enforcement may or may not have converged on the occupied building. I think either they are giving them a chance to turn themselves in OR seeing as they have the ring leaders in custody, they may be giving those remaining a chance to just leave peacefully.

Hopefully something more comprehensive and credible will come out today.


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Originally Posted By: PrplPplEater
all that writing to tell us absolutely nothing about what happened, and what the entire article is supposedly in existence for. It's two quick lines with zero information, then nothing but rehashing background info.


Reminds me of all the Manziel articles. naughtydevil

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When these guys posted their supply needs list, some people mailed them a bag of crap and a box of dildos.

One of the protesters was crying about that on Facebook.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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that was freaking HILARIOUS!


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-I don't think the name of the person who died in the shoot out has been made public yet, but I've seen the name of Lav so and so...

LaVoy Finicum... rumor is that he was shot with his hands up and cooperating. I'm sure there will be a lot more information to follow.... some of it might even be true.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Quote:
-I don't think the name of the person who died in the shoot out has been made public yet, but I've seen the name of Lav so and so...

LaVoy Finicum... rumor is that he was shot with his hands up and cooperating. I'm sure there will be a lot more information to follow.... some of it might even be true.


Well, that rumor of course would be automatic as if there is any possible way the guy could die. His followers would seek to make him a martyr by default.

What's funny is that they'd expect reasonable people to believe that a guy who said he had snipers trained on fed agents, and additionally made veiled threats of violence should law enforcement try to remove them from the building the occupied would be the first person to cooperate when confronted by law enforcement saywhat

If the guy gave up that easy, I guess he wasn't the true believer in the cause that he led people to believe?


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j/c

BURNS – Oregon standoff spokesman Robert "LaVoy" Finicum was killed and other leaders of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation were arrested Tuesday after the FBI and state police stopped vehicles about 20 miles north of Burns.

Authorities did not release the name of the person who died at the highway stop, but Finicum's daughter confirmed it was Finicum, 55, of Cane Beds, Arizona, one of the cowboy-hat wearing faces of the takeover.

"My dad was such a good man, through and through," said Arianna Finicum Brown, 26, one of Finicum's 11 children. "He would never ever want to hurt somebody, but he does believe in defending freedom and he knew the risks involved."

Ryan Bundy, 43, of Bunkerville, Nev., suffered a minor gunshot wound in the confrontation about 4:30 p.m. along U.S. 395. He was treated and released from a local hospital and was in FBI custody, authorities said.

Also arrested during the stop were his brother, Ammon Bundy, 40, of Emmett, Idaho, Ryan W. Payne, 32, of Anaconda, Mont., Brian Cavalier, 44, of Bunkerville, Nevada, and Shawna J. Cox, 59, of Kanab, Utah. They were charged with conspiracy to impede federal officers, a felony.

Nevada Assemblywoman Michele Fiore said that Ammon Bundy called his wife, Lisa Bundy, from the back of a police car on Tuesday night.

Who are the occupiers at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge?

They're military veterans and small business owners. Some have authored books and lost their jobs to join the cause. Who are the armed occupants of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in Burns, Oregon?

Fiore, a vocal supporter of the Bundy family, said that Ammon Bundy told his wife that Finicum was cooperating with police when he was shot.

But sources told The Oregonian/OregonLive that Finicum and Ryan Bundy disobeyed orders to surrender and resisted arrest. No other details were available.

Finicum on Monday said an interview that "the tenor has changed" between the occupiers and federal authorities.

A look back at LaVoy Finicum’s role during the Oregon standoff

Robert "LaVoy" Finicum, 55, has been the spokesperson during the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation. He was killed Jan. 26, 2016.

"They're doing all the things that shows that they want to take some kinetic action against us," he said.

At the refuge Tuesday evening, occupier Jason Patrick reported no unusual activity. "It's pretty quiet here," Patrick said. He said no one was leaving as of 6 p.m.

Hours later, Patrick said the refuge remained quiet but "we're all standing here ready to defend our peaceful resolution." He wouldn't elaborate.

In the meantime, Operation Mutual Defense, a network of militias and patriot sympathizers, issued a call on its website for help at the refuge. The post was written by Gary Hunt, a board member from California who has expressed support for Timothy McVeigh, who bombed a federal building in Oklahoma City and had ties to the patriot movement.

"You have an obligation to proceed to the Harney County Resource Center (the wildlife refuge) immediately," Hunt wrote. "If you fail to arrive, you will demonstrate by your own actions that your previous statements to defend life, liberty, and property were false."

In Burns, Oregon State Police also arrested Joseph D. O'Shaughnessy, 43, Cottonwood, Arizona, known in militia circles as "Captain," and Pete Santilli, 50, of Cincinnati, an independent broadcaster known for his aggressive manner and live streaming refuge events. They face conspiracy charges of impeding federal officers.

Jon Ritzheimer, 32, a key militant leader, surrendered to police in Arizona on the conspiracy charge. He gained national fame for complaining on a video about the delivery of sex toys to the refuge in response to the occupiers' plea for supplies.

Pete Santilli’s live stream documents moments leading up to and after his arrest

Pete Santilli was arrested while live-streaming reports of Ammon Bundy’s arrest on YouTube. Warning: this video includes strong language.

Gov. Kate Brown called for calm late Tuesday night.

"The situation in Harney County continues to be the subject of a federal investigation that is in progress," she said in a statement. "My highest priority is the safety of all Oregonians and their communities. I ask for patience as officials continue pursuit of a swift and peaceful resolution."

Little detail was available about the dramatic finish to the free-roaming ways of the militant leaders. State police said troopers were involved in the shooting and that one person died, another suffered non-life-threatening injuries and no police were hurt.

The militants seized the wildlife refuge on Jan. 2, insisting they wouldn't leave until their demands were met, including the freeing of two Harney County ranchers jailed on federal arson charges.

One militant on Tuesday afternoon posted a video of Ammon Bundy talking earlier in the day with an FBI negotiator identified only as "Chris." The two have been negotiating since last week, with Bundy dictating the circumstances under which he would talk and what the group wanted.

The leaders were on the highway bound for John Day, where they were scheduled to participate in an evening community meeting set up by local residents. A crowd of several hundred had gathered at the John Day Senior Center and were subsequently told the "guest speakers" would not be appearing.

The highway was blocked for a 40-mile stretch between Burns and John Day. Police were stationed near Seneca, a small city of 200 south of John Day, with long guns. They said they didn't know how long the roadblock would be place. Grant County Sheriff Glenn Palmer was there.

Palmer two weeks ago had met with Payne and Ritzheimer. He later publicly declared that Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son, Steven, should be freed from federal prison to help end the standoff. Palmer also has recommended that the FBI leave the Harney County scene and turn the matter to local police.

The armed militants took over the vacant headquarters compound at the refuge. They have been using refuge buildings for meetings and lodging, posting armed security guards.

The occupiers have been moving without police interference between the refuge and Burns, even attending a county-sponsored community meeting at the Burns High School a week ago. Police estimated at least 50 militants scattered through the crowd of about 400 people.

The dramatic event came days after local and state officials had publicly complained about the apparent inaction by federal law enforcement. The governor had complained directly to U.S. Attorney General Loretta Lynch and FBI Director James Comey as well as the White House. On Monday, Harney County Judge Steve Grasty, who chairs the county commission, also publicly urged police to resolve the occupation.

Payne and Bundy have been in and out of Harney County since November, aroused by the sentencing of the Hammonds. In October, they were ordered back to federal prison to finish five-year terms for deliberating starting fires that burned federal land in 2001 and 2006. Bundy and his followers had demanded that Harney County Sheriff David Ward protect the ranchers from having to surrender, a demand Ward rejected.

FBI Special Agent in Charge Greg Bretzing speaks at an 11am press conference at the Harney County Community Center in Burns, Jan.27, 2016. Beth Nakamura/StaffFBI Special Agent in Charge Greg Bretzing speaks at an 11am press conference at the Harney County Community Center in Burns, Jan.27, 2016. Beth Nakamura/Staff

Beth Nakamura | The Oregonian/OregonLive

Payne and other militia met local residents in an informal meeting on New Year's Day in Burns, vowing they had peaceful intentions. The next day, about 300 people - a mix of militia and local residents - paraded in protest through downtown Burns, stopping at the sheriff's office and then stopping at the home of Dwight Hammond and his wife Susan.

That afternoon, a splinter group of militants drove out to the refuge, left vacant after federal authorities warned employees to stay away over safety concerns. Later, Payne confirmed in interviews with The Oregonian/OregonLive that the group had long planned to seize the refuge.

Besides demanding freedom for the Hammonds, the Bundy group wanted the refuge turned over to prior private owners and to the county. They insist that the federal government has no constitutional authority to control land in Harney County, a county that measures 10,000 square miles. The federal government controls 76 percent. The Bundy group also has encouraged ranchers to renounced their federal grazing permits, showcasing a New Mexico rancher Saturday at the refuge who did just that.

-- Laura Gunderson, Carli Brosseau, Denis Theriault, Luke Hammill, Elliot Njus, Anna Marum, and Ian Kullgren of The Oregonian contributed to this post.

-- Les Zaitz

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/bundys_in_custody_one_militant.html


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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Quote:
Patrick said the refuge remained quiet but "we're all standing here ready to defend our peaceful resolution."

What in the hell does that mean?


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guess land will be for sale cheap soon since they just arrested half the citizens lol


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Hope there is dashcam footage or someone else who happen to record it...

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sucks if the cop popped them for no reason.

i don't like these guys, but i hate useless killings even more.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: FBHO71
Hope there is dashcam footage or someone else who happen to record it...

You would hope that in a situation this politically charged and this high profile, that they would make absolutely certain that they were recording...


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You would think so..but nothing surprises me anymore with the police or the feds...maybe Im just paranoid...

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Originally Posted By: FBHO71
You would think so..but nothing surprises me anymore with the police or the feds...maybe Im just paranoid...

Not sure paranoid is the right word.. cynical maybe? It really has become very difficult to ever fully believe that what you are hearing is the truth about any of these situations or shootings.


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I'm definitely cynical...sorry man I had another thought in my head and it sounded paranoid and thats what I typed...I dont multitask very well anymore superconfused

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They released the videos of the incident. Here's the edited version which is about 8 minutes... they also released the unedited version which is about 3x as long...



Here's a little John Madden about what is going on in the video:

A couple minutes in two vehicles initiate a traffic stop on the white truck. Notice a few things: the truck stopped in the middle of the road, literally (instead of pulling to the right like most people would normally do).. second, notice that for most of that time, the brake lights were on, likely meaning the vehicle was not in park for most of that time. These are small details, but important ones. They may not be specific indicators as to the occupants intentions, but by displaying behaviors not typical of people being pulled over, it indicates an increasing likelihood that they will not be 100% compliant.

After awhile the truck speeds off and when confronted by the roadblock, he attempts to go around it through the snow bank.

Now, initially it looked like the cop jumped in front of it, but upon further review if you view it from his perspective, it was the obvious place to go because the more obvious path for that truck to take would be to ram the cop car to get around it and I think that was what he was expecting to happen and reacting to. Turns out he went in to the snow bank instead.

Camera pans away for a moment and when it comes back the subject is outside of the truck waving his hands. He clearly isn't surrendering: his arms don't stay up, he continues to move vs. staying on one spot. Then he starts to reach to his left side with his right hand in a cross drawing motion. He does this 3 times and each time he "blades" his body away from the cops in front if him, meaning he turns his body so that whatever object he is reaching for is out of their view. After the third time he reaches he is shot by what looks like the cop he didn't see behind him.

A few points on this here:
1) why would he try to draw on cops who already had drawn on him? Well, by blading his body so that they couldn't see what he was reaching for, I think he was trying to create a moment of indecision on the part of the officers by getting them to have to wait until he pulled the gun from his pocket to decide if it was a gun or not. Assuming that he was head of a militia, he was probably proficient with firearms. He probably thought he could get the drop on them and take at least one or two out.

2) The official report stated that he did indeed have a loaded 9mm in his pocket. Even if that wasn't the case, given his history and prior threats, given the way he sped off and tried to crash the roadblock, and given that he refused to comply with commands and made repeated motions to draw a weapon, shooting him would still be justified.

3) It was also reported that the cops on scene did attempt to render first aid, but it wasn't until about 10 minutes after he was shot. Garuntee his faithful will claim he was "left to die"... don't forget, there were other occupants that they had to get out of the vehicle and secured before that scene would be considered "safe". That kind of thing takes time because you call each person out individually and in a controlled manner. After it appears everyone is out, you still have to approach and make sure no one is laying down on the seat or floor. So 10 minutes isn't all that unreasonable.

In the end IMO this guy thought he was going to go out in a blaze of glory to cement his martyrdom. I guess it didn't work out so well.

Back to my nap. I saw this got released and thought I'd share it with y'all


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Ive said it before...dont play games with cops.

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Suicide by cop Devil?? I wont lose sleep over this..and I'm glad the folks I know in Oath Keepers wasnt involved.

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That's one gun pried from a cold dead hand. Next.


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https://www.yahoo.com/news/occupiers-oregon-refuge-theyll-turn-themselves-063855170.html

i thought they was gonna fight to the death!!! what happened!!!

too cold outside?


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Originally Posted By: Swish
https://www.yahoo.com/news/occupiers-oregon-refuge-theyll-turn-themselves-063855170.html

i thought they was gonna fight to the death!!! what happened!!!

too cold outside?


You knew it was hyperbole Swish...

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hell, i thought they was dead ass serious.

maybe that box of dildos people were mailing them broke their spirits.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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hell, i thought they was dead ass serious


I'll take you at your word...I never thought it was. If they didnt start shooting people up after their boy was gunned down on the side of the road...they wasnt going to do anything.

What broke their spirit is no one gave a crap about their cause..JMHO

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The question begs to have a answer. The reason they really should not be called terrorists is because they have a right to be there. The fact the government says they do not have a right to be on public lands is an issue. I am not for armed resistance to government overreach. However, if this were private property, the owner of the property has Constitutional rights to that property. It is when the government tries to claim Constitutional rights in the name of the public in order to restrict the public access to public lands that creates the issue. The re-jailing of the ranchers is a smoke screen. A person who believes in smaller government and citizen governance is not a terrorist. frown It is a sad state of affairs that many citizens of the USA feel it is okay for the government to restrict the rights of other citizens and to involve themselves in the lives of every citizen as it sees fit. frown

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The federal government has owned the land since the 1800's.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Still means nothing Swish. The Federal government cannot have private property rights. By its nature, it is public. They cannot restrict public access without a cause. Because people are armed is not a cause unless they are shooting at people. Citizens have a right to arm themselves and do not need to ask the government for permission to arm. It is a basic right of all citizens in the USA. So being armed. Protesting government actions (voicing a grievance), does not a terrorist make.

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Citizens have a right to arm themselves and do not need to ask the government for permission to arm. It is a basic right of all citizens in the USA.


Well this should make for some interesting responses...

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Originally Posted By: Voleur
Still means nothing Swish. The Federal government cannot have private property rights. By its nature, it is public. They cannot restrict public access without a cause. Because people are armed is not a cause unless they are shooting at people. Citizens have a right to arm themselves and do not need to ask the government for permission to arm. It is a basic right of all citizens in the USA. So being armed. Protesting government actions (voicing a grievance), does not a terrorist make.


This is by far the most intelligent and most Patriotic American Citizen post in this entire thread!

Thank you for saying it! thumbsup

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Originally Posted By: FBHO71
Quote:
Citizens have a right to arm themselves and do not need to ask the government for permission to arm. It is a basic right of all citizens in the USA.


Well this should make for some interesting responses...


I do not understand why. It is supreme law of the land, the 2nd Amendment. It is only the government's attempt to restrict citizen rights that creates the issue. I feel that sometimes people need to be reminded that the government has three branches, executive, legislative, and judiciary. The courts ruling to restrict the rights of the citizenry is not something we should encourage. The legislative branches such as gun restriction or registration laws should not be encouraged. Nor should police actions to restrict citizen rights be encouraged or accepted without question. They are all government intrusions into the rights of the citizenry.

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Have you not read this board on gun issues? Thats why I said what I did not that youre wrong or anything.

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oh I have not. I am naive to the gun views on the board. I thought all Americans believed in the Bill of Rights.

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Originally Posted By: Voleur
oh I have not. I am naive to the gun views on the board. I thought all Americans believed in the Bill of Rights.


Its to bad I have to leave for the day...this has potential...keep posting your thoughts and wait.

I'm curious to see who steps up to this one and "debate" your points...good luck Voleur.

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I was listening to a live online stream of this last night. Some Glenn Beck stylized radio personality had them on speaker phone for 6 hours yesterday. Michelle Fiore, a Nevada assemblywoman, kept talking them down from going out and getting themselves killed. It was surreal to listen to live. They desperately wanted to be martyrs, but they all came to their senses.

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no one gave a crap about their cause



BS ...Nobody cares what happens to a bunch of rednecks armed to the teeth trying to pick a gun fight with the fed's.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Why aren’t we calling the Oregon occupiers ‘terrorists?’

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