DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... 18 year old rape

I could say the same for you... One thing I've noticed.. No matter the subject on here you are always on the other side.. Regardless.. Some people take different sides on things but you're always on the other side.. You think everything is black and white and yours is the only correct opinion.. To me the fact the the father didn't die protecting his daughter is the the thing I take from the story... As I said earlier.. Read this to my wife and the only thing she said was "He left his Daughter"!!??

Thanks.

I realize the importance of focusing on the teens raping the young girl. Going forward, some effort and planning has to go into preventing this kind of thing from happening starting with how we, as parents and the authority figures in their lives, can improve the manner in which we teach and raise them.

But this isn't a discussion on hypothetically what we can do to improve the behavior of teens in this day and age. This discussion is about an isolated issue involving one specific girl, one specific dad and a specific group of teens.

In that specific scenario the dad needed to man up. Even if it meant being shot to his death. After the shooting, if that were to happen, who knows, maybe the punks run away. If they don't, if they kill him then someone is going down for murder and the rest as accomplices.

I'd rather my daughter live with the knowledge that her dad died defending her than live the rest of her live wondering why her dad ran away during the most traumatic moment of her life.

Not to mention the sound of a gunshot would have attracted attention and brought help.

My thoughts exactly! I hate think how this girl will spend the rest of her life but how does this guy live with himself?

Her dad did try to help her, the best wat he could. He tried to go get help, because the situation he was in was unwinnable.

Man, people are always Superman until they come face to face with some of these situations. I have heard people say, "If someone tried to rob me, even with a gun, I'd just kick their ass, take the gun from them, and shove it right up their ass."

Bull. I pray that no one is ever in that situation, but I can tell you that all thought of "I'm gonna kick someone's butt" goes right out the window when you feel that cold steel barrel.

If I were in that situation, I would do all I could to get away and attract attention, and the police. I would stand no chance against 5 young men .... even unarmed. None. Let's say that don't kill me .... but instead, just beat me to a bloody pulp. Then they take out that amped up aggression on the very person I was trying to help, and they rape her brutally, and kill her. In that case, what has been gained?

People throw around the word coward a lot, and do a lot of big talking, but until you've been in a situation like this ... or others like it ..... you don't know what you'll do. How many people here have had a gun pulled on them? How many have had to think about how quickly their lives could end, and whether they should just give up their money, or somehow fight? Until you've had a gun pressed into the side of your head, or into your chest, you really have no idea what it's like. You can romanticize things in your mind, and think about how heroic you'd be, but let me tell you firsthand, a gun to the head drains all heroism right out of your body. A person just pulling a gun on you, when you know that if he wants to shoot you, you're dead, is not something I would ever want anyone to do through.

People, think about what you're saying here. The man should have died, so that the girl could have been raped, but be somehow secure in the knowledge that her dad is dead too? Really? Do you think that's going to help her? You know what's going to go through her head in a situation like that, where her father gets brutally beaten, or killed, and she gets brutally raped anyway? "Why didn't I do more to save his life?". Even if she isn't attacked in that situation, she's still going to carry that with her forever. This father is always going to think about what he might have been able to do, and I am sure that will haunt him all the days of his life. That is NOT his fault though. It is the fault of the evil committed by those 5 young men. That is where the fault begins, and ends. Unfortunately, I bet that he will never be able to see it that way. The world will also ask him why he didn't do more, as if he could have.

These kids did an unspeakable, vile, and inhuman thing, committing a crime like this. They deserve the maximum punishment possible. They are the criminals. The girl, and her father, are the victims of this repugnant crime.

Those of you who have a daughter, and who think that the father should have thrown his life away trying to fight, instead of getting away to get the police, ask your daughter which she would prefer in that situation. Ask her which she would prefer, to be raped by 5 men as you try to get away and get help, or if she would think better of you, watching you be beaten to death in front of her, and then she get raped by the 5 guys anyway.

I doubt that most of you will ask that question, and I bet that most daughters would say "I would hope that you would get away and get help, because I don't want to watch you be killed, Dad."

Vers is absolutely right, if he is saying what I believe he is. These punks are the criminals. The fact that some are blaming one of the victims of their crime is like saying that a woman deserved to be raped because she wore provocative clothing. It is utter BS, and to me, it's unacceptable. The criminals are the punks who raped this poor girl. The victims, to differing degrees, are the girl and her father. Why are so many perfectly willing, and almost eager, to demonize one of the victims of this crime?

You're assuming these 14-17 year old kids would've shot if confronted with an adversary. Who knows? Maybe they would have.

I happen to think - jmo - they were out to get what was easy, and them having a gun made it easier. Also, knowing that their parents turned them in makes me believe they came from a home life that was at a minimum, decent.

A pack of wolves comparison fits here, imo.

Regardless, an 18 year old girl - not "woman" as the media describes it - was gang raped by what amounted to a pack of wolves.

These 5 young men gang raped an 18 year old woman. That is an incredibly brutal and violent thing to do to a woman. Rape is not about sex, it is about power, and abuse. It is about causing another pain. You think that 5 punks like this would have just gone running if a 51 year old man came running at them? In my case, my best bet is that they would have fallen down laughing at the thought that I was somehow going to kick all their asses.

These kids wanted to feel strong and powerful. That's what rape is about. It's not about sex. It's about a person who feels powerless in some aspect of his life feeling powerful. It's not a sex thing, it's a "I showed her/them" thing.

We need to quit blaming the victim. The daughter was a victim, and so was the father. In many ways, he may even suffer more in the long run that she will. I feel horrible for both of them, and I hope those kids don't see the light of day for a very long time to come.

I don't think I was blaming the victim, or the dad. If that's what you got out of my post, your nerve block is blocking your damn ability to read.

I most certainly have not blamed the victim, nor the father. The punks that did it? Screw them - in more ways than one.

Do you have a family member, or a close friend, that was raped?

If you are going to walk with the wolves you best be armed to equalize the odds for survival or be prepared to fight to the death in defense of your life or the life of a loved one.

I never called the father a coward even though there's few other words to be used... I will not call someone a coward but some on here used the excuse maybe he was small and had no chance against these guys.. Read a story few years back about a couple punks that attacked an old woman and the woman's husband got in between the punks and the old woman.. They killed him, and ran off, The woman lived. I'm sure she didn't want her husband to die in such a manner but this is the way it should be.. Here's something I know you'll understand,John 15:13 (KJ2000) Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends...

I'm pretty sure you said you have no children so maybe you can't relate (even though I would think anyone could understand). You said ask your daughter what she'd want.. Of course she doesn't wanna watch me shot in the head, but it goes without saying she depends on me to protect her.. It's not about whether I have the ability to defend her against 5 males, I'm pretty sure I would lose. But in losing I might give my daughter a window to escape. And that's always a chance worth taking.. If I was to die my daughter could take comfort in where I was going when I was dead. Which is something you should understand..

That was the point of my post.

You are such a big, bad tough guy. I am tired of hearing how your big, physical presence would have scared off the five criminals. You seem to be more concerned w/convincing us how tough you are than a girl getting raped. Pfffttttttttt

Here is what I think, just in case anyone cares:

I would have never left my daughter. I agree w/you guys there. However, if the five freaking criminals wouldn't have attacked the girl, the dad would have NEVER even been in that position.

You guys mention the criminals once or twice and then trash the dad and go all "manly" spouting off about how your guns would have saved the freaking day. Color me as not impressed.

I think that our society is consumed w/hate and lack of respect for each other. I think that we need to change that mind-set. I think that we need to educate our youths w/tough love that teaches them that the thug mentality is wrong. I think that fighting hate w/hate only compounds the problem.

Right. I get you. If the 5 thug animals wouldn't have attacked, this would be a non story.

However, they did attack. With a gun they probably weren't "allowed" to have.

Here's one way to limit future attacks such as this: a public castration.

Can't say I agree with it - but on the other hand, showing future rapists what will happen to them might be a deterrent, don't you think.

And I will say kudo's to the parents that turned their kids in. That had to be a very, very tough decision.

a 14 year old, 2 15 year olds, and 2 17 year olds? Sorry boys - you made your bed.

Thanks.

I think sometimes things get muddled on here.

I agree w/most of the posters that there is NO WAY the father should have left his daughter.

Our family has a ton of guns. Heck, my son has too many. But, no one is going to roll up on us and just take what is ours. I am pro gun.

I just think that the dad and daughter should have never been put in that position. He shouldn't have had to run away. He shouldn't have had to try and have a shoot-out w/five guys while his daughter was in the middle of the would-be gun fight.

I think we need to educate our population regarding morals. And if they don't wanna follow what's morally right..........I think we need to remove them from society.

I am sick and tired of the rule-breakers getting passes in our schools. I am tired of hearing about how you can't suspend students for fighting, stealing, having drugs, assaulting teachers, etc. And then when these kids get out into society and they break the law...........what happens........we talk about the dad running away and/or gun control laws. Screw these punks. They need to buy into society's laws or be removed from society!!!!

They drew the gun. They raped the girl! They are the guilty ones here and they should be the focus of our outrage!!!!


I'm sorry, arch.........but these criminals make my blood boil and when people ignore what they have done and shift the focus onto the innocent........it upsets me even further.

Going to the Browns Steelers game... bring a gun.


I have 3 beautiful daughters and 3 beautiful grand daughters... I'd rather not discuss this or what my actions would of been.

You would have to ask THEM, as I am sure that WE don't know. We all fight like cats and dogs around here lol but I don't think we have a single regular poster around here that would raise their children to be so brutal, uncaring, so dedicated to their own needs and desires while not giving a damn about other people? or who would let their children get away with it.

You need to go back and read what I wrote. That's your problem unable to read or lack of understanding.. I said I would probably lose but maybe give my daughter a chance... Not 1 time did I say my physical presence would scare anyone!

posted to the wrong one!!
You need to go back and read what I wrote. That's your problem unable to read or lack of understanding.. I said I would probably lose but maybe give my daughter a chance... Not 1 time did I say my physical presence would scare anyone!

Reminds me of a cowboy movie I once saw where the bad guy draws his gun on the good guy and the good guy says "Wait, I'm unarmed!"

The bad guy laughed and said "Then you should have armed yourself" just before he shot the good guy dead.

I will be armed to protect myself and my loved ones. I will never place my life in the hands of another who I don't know.

Good luck to the rest of you who want to change the real world and make men out of animals, I hope you are successful so I will no longer need to arm myself in public.

However, common sense dictates I must do what I must do so as not to end up in that Fathers position.

Here's a start.. Maybe he shouldn't have been sitting in the park at 9pm getting drunk with his 18 year old daughter.. Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% the decisions you make..

Was he getting drunk?

Here's a start - guys shouldn't rape. Why don't we start at the real crime?

Would you assume his daughter was "asking" for it based on how she was dressed, also?

Starting with guys shouldn't rape is a waste of time because there is an entire segment of our Society that are animals. The problem can not be fixed.

The Father making better choices could have prevented this crime.
The Father arming himself could have prevented this crime.

If you walk around Africa while wearing a Meat Suit, yea, I would say that was a poor choice too.

Mox nailed it with "Life is 10% what happens to you and 90% the decisions you make.."

don't read to much in what I said.. Starting with the crime.. Obviously guys shouldn't rape. People shouldn't steal. People shouldn't kill. People shouldn't do alot of things.. Just sayin that for a start and it's a big start. This man should not had his daughter in that Park at 9pm getting her drunk,and yes one of the articles said the man appeared drunk and the girl was so drunk she bit a cop... A woman dressing inappropriate is not a reason for her to be raped but it's not a bad idea either to cover it up sometime.. Because the Animals are going to be watching

Thanks

I certainly agree with what you're saying Vers. I believe that the respect towards our fellow man is at an all time low. Until children are held accountable, nothing will change, and it should.

I do believe that's why we see so many posts like we do. Many, including myself, feel helpless to change that mind set in our current society. While I would like to see that change, society took a long time to get to where we are today. That's why I believe you see the focus taken away from the crimes themselves often times, and directed far more to what we can do to protect ourselves from these crimes.

Until the time comes that society goes through such changes, people feel a need to protect themselves from such violence. And I certainly understand that train of thought.

Good post.

I just wanna reiterate something I was trying to get at earlier. I am pro-gun. I would never have left my daughter alone w/those animals.

I am just tired of how our society is breeding such monsters. Did you know that there are schools out there that won't report their students if they have drugs on them? They give them a warning if they fight. They can assault teachers. They can tell teachers to ...... off. I saw a video of a huge riot in the school. It was a huge mob fight. The school just let it go w/warnings.

We are raising these monsters. Then, they lash out in society and we assassinate the innocent for not being brave enough or not having a gun. WTF!!!

Here is my take. Educate them. Teach them right from wrong. And if they don't want to follow along w/societies rules.........get them the hell out of our society. I am sick and tired of the thugs in our schools being coddled. They end up becoming criminals and it's everyone else's fault. That's bullcrap. It's time to take back our streets!

All good and noble points Vers but what should I do while you are fixing the monsters that it took years to create and I am walking in the park with my Daughter?

I will be armed in case I run into some of those monsters you have yet to fix or haven't gotten off the streets. I will not fear them because I am equal to them at least, regardless of their number or size. I am adult enough to not cause trouble myself and I wish no one any harm, but I live in this world too.

When you start holding both parents of a child responsible for that child's crimes and don't throw them in jail for child abuse because they spanked a poorly behaving child then you will be on the path to fixing society.

It all start with the parents being accountable first. it needs to stop being all about the big house and how much material wealth you have and instead be about how well you turned your children into stars of the community.

I agree... But most don't agree with holding parents accountability. I mentioned that on here once and the site almost blew up

I'm aware you have a strong belief in God.. That's why you feel this way.. Most without that train of thought don't understand and call discipline, Child abuse..

Not arguing w/you about that at all, 40. I feel the same way and tried to point that out. I believe in protecting yourself. I ain't bad-mouthing anyone for that.

I just feel that things are going to get worse because of how we are protecting the guilty in schools. Eventually, those kids get older and they become a menace to society, just not their schoolmates and teachers.

Society is supposed to evolve. Things like gun fights in the old west should be a thing of the past. I shouldn't have to worry if I go out at night. I shouldn't have to worry if I know my daughter is going to go out w/her friends for some fun. I shouldn't have to worry that my son is going to blow some guys brains out because 3 punks try to rob him. I shouldn't have to worry about my wife pumping her own gas at night.

I am not heartless. I think we should do everything we can to educate our nation's youths both academically and morally. However, the constant repeat offenders need to be dealt with harshly. Get them out!

I have an idea as to where to put them and I typed it out several times, but man, the bleeding-hearts would freak out if they read it. LOL..............but seriously, I think that it might deter some of animals from thinking they can do whatever the hell they want to do. And it sure would allow the rest of us to live in a safer environment.

I hear you Vers.
I wish things were like they were in years past when we didn't even lock our doors and a walk in the park was a walk in the park. The animals were few and got locked up and removed from our very cohesive society. There was very little tolerance for the bad folks. There was this little word that carried a lot of weight back then and it was "Shame". That doesn't exist anymore because we were told to be tolerant and accepting. Spanking a child became abuse and calling a scumbag a scumbag was intolerance. Liberal Whites invented Welfare instead of jobs and destroyed the Black family. Today 50 percent of Americans are on some form of government assistance. Drugs began to destroy everyone, everywhere. Mother's aborted 50 million of their own young since then.

So here we are, after decades of Progressive Liberalism. Society is unraveling before our very eyes.

This is the new reality...

The Rich are increasing their security.
The Middle Class are arming themselves.
Guess who will be left to face most of the onslaught of a broken society?

Many, many people I know have given up on our society and will now watch it fail. We will protect our own in the meantime and try to rebuild what we once had after the collapse is complete.

Update: And the story really is a shocker:

'Charges dropped against five teens accused of New York gang rape'

http://news.yahoo.com/charges-dropped-against-five-teens-accused-york-gang-074718990.html

(Reuters) - A New York City prosecutor said he was moving to dismiss charges against five teenagers accused of raping an 18-year-old woman on a Brooklyn playground after the alleged victim recanted the accusations she was assaulted at gunpoint.

The allegations of rape on the Brooklyn playground made national headlines and stoked fear in the Brownsville community after the woman said she was drinking in the park with her father when the teens, brandishing a gun, surrounded them.

Brooklyn District Attorney Ken Thompson said the woman had stopped cooperating with investigators and had given conflicting accounts of what occurred during the Jan. 7 incident.

She had also been engaged in sexual conduct with her biological father when the teens approached her inside the park in the Brownsville section of Brooklyn, a statement said.

"That night, this young woman's father and the five young men engaged in conduct that was reprehensible and wrong," Thompson said. "But because of the lack of reliable evidence, criminal charges simply cannot be sustained."

The woman was also refusing to cooperate with any incest prosecution against her father, he added.

Four boys, who ranged in age from 14 to 17, were arrested in the days after the incident and charged with rape and other related counts. A fifth suspect, age 18, was also taken into custody.

"You can only imagine the trauma that would go along with a charge like this hanging over a young child's head," Abdula Green, an attorney for one of the boys, told a news conference on Wednesday.



(Reporting by Victoria Cavaliere in Los Angeles; Editing by Alison Williams)

You know..... I wonder if all the people that made the racist remarks will change their stances throughout social media.

Anyway, glad the charges will hopefully be dropped.

Wow what a terrible mess. I'm not sure how else to put it.

Is this the story of the woman who was allegedly raped while her dad went to get help and everybody blasted the father and put all of their macho-ism that they would have fought to the death to protect their daughter?

And now it turns out the dad was getting it on with the daughter?

Wow.. bizarre story.

the story sounded fishy from the jump, but man...i really believed that dad. at least i believed what his intentions were.


but wow.

Bizarre is putting it nicely.

In either version of the story, the father is a slimeball.