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Not being much of a basketball fan, I've never paid all that much attention to the Cavs, but since Lebron arrived and the team started to get things together I've been getting more interested.
Since the Cavs seem to be composed of one superstar and a bunch of role-players, the obvious solution would seem to be bringing in a free agent or two but I've heard and read everywhere that we have major cap problems.
My question is, how can this possibly be? How can we have the players we do right now and possibly have cap problems that would prevent us from going after free agents this summer? How did this come to be?
Where is all the money going?
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Where is all the money going?
That worthless investment on Larry Hughes 
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Larry Hughes $13.36 million Zydrunas Ilgauskas $9.44 million Drew Gooden $6.64 million Eric Snow $6.09 million LeBron James $5.82 million Donyell Marshall $5.63 million Damon Jones $3.88 million Ira Newble $3.19 million Scot Pollard $2.2 million Aleksansar Pavlovic $1.96 million David Wesley $1.75 million Shannon Brown $971,280 AndersonVarejao $945,600 Dwayne Jones $664,209 Daniel Gibson $412,718 Total $62.992 million http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/nba/nbasalaries.htmlThey butchered the names, not me 
Last edited by Psydeffect; 05/26/07 08:39 PM.
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Larry Hughes $13.36 million
LeBron James $5.82 million
Nuff said
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Larry Hughes $13.36 million
LeBron James $5.82 million
Nuff said
That's why I said what I said in my above post
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Wow did we get ripped off on the Hughes deal. That's unreal. How would you like to be Ferry and try to explain that one. I don't know if Ferry was responsible for that 'investment' or not, but someone's head should roll for that decision.
Hughes isn't worth 1/10 of that salary. He obviously had an agent that knew what he was doing.
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The problem as I see it -- and anyone on this board will tell you I'm not "with it" -- is,...
Number One -- as it is with all sports -- these overpriced, overmaniacal, underproducing "professionals" make too much money for the value they return to society and/or their fan bases. NONE should make more than an E-1 private in Iraq does. I realize you think those are "apples and oranges," so come back and tell me I need to get with reality. I know what real reality is.
Number Two -- at whatever price it is, with or without a cap, you have to get the performers. We have ONE, and we all know who that is. We had a chance to get Redd and the "system" wouldn't allow it. We let Boozer go because he "didn't fit."
One PLUS Two equals THREE -- if these "professionals" all made the same amount of money for striving to produce the desired result -- i.e. that that the rest of us are required to produce on a daily basis -- and were enumerated based on "performance" rather than hype, then maybe I wouldn't bitch so much when my team loses,....
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He obviously had an agent that knew what he was doing.
I dunno, we were in a desperate situation when we signed hughes to find James a sidekick. Michael Redd, Joe Johnson and Ray Allen had already signed with their respected teams and we were desperate and made him an outrageous offer just to make sure we would sign him
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you have to make that same argument for musicans, actors, and basically anyone who makes more money than our troops...
it sounds unfortunate, but that's just the way it works... these pro sports teams pull in a lot of money, therefore, these athletes deserve a piece of that money...
it's the american dream, and any one of us in their position would do it...
i don't think the cavs have serious cap problems... things will be tight for a while, unless dan gilbert wants to go over and pay the tax, but we're definitely not as bad as the knicks of the past, or some of the other teams who overspend...
i don't know a ton about nba contracts, but can you re-negotiate them? i think larry hughes should have to renegotiate his contract, because he's clearly not worth the money (at least on this team) and it's blatently obvious...
how do you go around in the locker room, being the highest paid player on the team, and not feel like an ass?
does anyone know who's off the books this year, next year, and beyond?
the only thing i know is that drew is on for 2 more years, lebron is on for 3 more, wild thing is a restricted FA, and i believe z has 3 more years...
z and hughes are both off the books when lebron is up for that huge deal...
so really, our cap problems are fine... we just won't be able to do much this summer... i still think we resign wild thing and take the tax hit
but think about the possibilities when we resign lebron, and have all that extra money to bring in a free agent, or two... and keep in mind that the salary cap will be larger, so lebron's huge deal won't take up as much as you think...
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He obviously had an agent that knew what he was doing.
I dunno, we were in a desperate situation when we signed hughes to find James a sidekick. Michael Redd, Joe Johnson and Ray Allen had already signed with their respected teams and we were desperate and made him an outrageous offer just to make sure we would sign him
the team knew they weren't getting redd or allen... so it wasn't like they panicked at the last second...
the only realistic options were johnson, hughes, and maybe a bobby simmons, but at the time, hughes seemed like the best fit...
defensively, it still is, because joe johnson doesn't play a whole lot of defense...
and as far as bobby simmons goes, i never thought he was that great...
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Some people say Hughes is the problem but look at these other deals:
Eric Snow $6.09 million
Donyell Marshall $5.63 million
Damon Jones $3.88 million
Ira Newble $3.19 million
David Wesley $1.75 million
That's 20 million dollars we have tied up in vets that give us absolutely nothing. Hughes is overpaid but atleast he gives us something. He's been struggling against Detroit but he played pretty well this season.
now plays good defense but besides that, all these guys are just eating payroll. We could get the same production from players getting paid half as much. That would free up money to add another key player and not just an aging bum to throw a jersey on to.
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Some people say Hughes is the problem but look at these other deals:
Eric Snow $6.09 million
Donyell Marshall $5.63 million
Damon Jones $3.88 million
Ira Newble $3.19 million
David Wesley $1.75 million
That's 20 million dollars we have tied up in vets that give us absolutely nothing. Hughes is overpaid but atleast he gives us something. He's been struggling against Detroit but he played pretty well this season.
now plays good defense but besides that, all these guys are just eating payroll. We could get the same production from players getting paid half as much. That would free up money to add another key player and not just an aging bum to throw a jersey on to.
i can see the argument though, because if hughes was proved his value for that 13 mil, nobody is complaining about what eric snow, or donyell marshall makes...
most teams have guys that are paid a ton of money that just sit on the bench...
but i do see your point, we could definitely use that money elsewhere...
i wish this was the nfl
and i think snow has earned his money by mentoring gibson... you can tell just by the past two games, with the little time he's gotten, gibson has hit some big shots, and he's really locked down on chauncey billups... i wonder who he sits next to when they're watching film...
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Absolute Fact,...the 2005 combined salaries of the NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL are enough to make the payroll for ALL active, reserve and retired Marines for the next 55 years.
I really don't care that professional sports pays "more",...what I care about is not getting the same chance to compete for the same thing at a diffferent price cost. I.E. the Yankees and the Sox,....an outfielder is an outfielder. If you are THE BEST outfielder and happen to be in New York, fine,....pay the man a bonus for that performance.
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Wow did we get ripped off on the Hughes deal. That's unreal. How would you like to be Ferry and try to explain that one. I don't know if Ferry was responsible for that 'investment' or not, but someone's head should roll for that decision.
Hughes isn't worth 1/10 of that salary. He obviously had an agent that knew what he was doing.
hughes is a bad fit here. put him in golden state, pheonix, or back with the wiz, and he's a 20pt guy once again.
we had to sign someone that year. allen, and redd turned us down. I bet they feel bad they did so, especially allen.
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Absolute Fact,...the 2005 combined salaries of the NBA, NFL, MLB and NHL are enough to make the payroll for ALL active, reserve and retired Marines for the next 55 years.
I really don't care that professional sports pays "more",...what I care about is not getting the same chance to compete for the same thing at a diffferent price cost. I.E. the Yankees and the Sox,....an outfielder is an outfielder. If you are THE BEST outfielder and happen to be in New York, fine,....pay the man a bonus for that performance.
I'm curious to know what your agenda is here, and assuming you think this is a problem, your solution as well.
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The problem as I see it -- and anyone on this board will tell you I'm not "with it" -- is,...
Number One -- as it is with all sports -- these overpriced, overmaniacal, underproducing "professionals" make too much money for the value they return to society and/or their fan bases. NONE should make more than an E-1 private in Iraq does. I realize you think those are "apples and oranges," so come back and tell me I need to get with reality. I know what real reality is.
Number Two -- at whatever price it is, with or without a cap, you have to get the performers. We have ONE, and we all know who that is. We had a chance to get Redd and the "system" wouldn't allow it. We let Boozer go because he "didn't fit."
One PLUS Two equals THREE -- if these "professionals" all made the same amount of money for striving to produce the desired result -- i.e. that that the rest of us are required to produce on a daily basis -- and were enumerated based on "performance" rather than hype, then maybe I wouldn't bitch so much when my team loses,....
I agree about the money, but the fans are the one to blame for this. it's the fans who are attending these games and paying outrageous prices for tickets, concessions and merchandise. If you don't like the salaries, don't go to games or buy anything related to professional sports.
Boozer was a good fit here. he used the system to get a higher salary.that same system that allowed the bucks to keep redd, will work in our advanatage to keep James. The large markets are alaways going to pay more, in any profession this is true, just not in professional sports.
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I'm curious to know what your agenda is here, and assuming you think this is a problem, your solution as well,...
When I figure out if I have an agenda,...I'll let you know !! 
Otherwise, I am just a die-hard Cleveland sports fan,...frustrated by years of winning nothing.
Most probably, I am still ticked off at a close friend who I argued with last week about the Steinbrenner payroll. He specifically stated that it's OK for the Yankees, and baseball for allowing it, to do what they do. It's OK to have small market teams wither in oblivion while the Big Boys rake in the cash.
I am by no means a left-wing liberal, but I believe the definition of freedom includes sharing it.
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If you don't like the salaries, don't go to games or buy anything related to professional sports.
This is a tough stance to take,...it would mean selling off all of my Cleveland Browns football cards,....giving away my Eric Turner jersey,...and burning my Cleveland Browns director's chair -- a going away gift from the Marines at Recruiting Station Cleveland -- you get the point,....
I do have a line drawn in the sand though. Since 1995 (or was it 94) when the Tribe was in first place and they cancelled the World Series, I have not purchased a ticket to any professional sports event, including NASCAR.
Didn't say I haven't been to a game,...just that I don't pay for tickets with any cash that comes from my pension. Didn't say I don't buy a beer when I'm there, or pay for the gas and the parking,...but I will NEVER ever again pay for a ticket.
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Larry Hughes $13.36 million
Zydrunas Ilgauskas $9.44 million
Drew Gooden $6.64 million
Eric Snow $6.09 million
LeBron James $5.82 million
Donyell Marshall $5.63 million
Damon Jones $3.88 million
Ira Newble $3.19 million
Scot Pollard $2.2 million
Aleksansar Pavlovic $1.96 million
David Wesley $1.75 million
Shannon Brown $971,280
AndersonVarejao $945,600
Dwayne Jones $664,209
Daniel Gibson $412,718
Total $62.992 million
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/basketball/nba/nbasalaries.html
They butchered the names, not me
More reason 4 Detroit to sweep us. The 2 worst players on the Cavs (2 of the top 10 worst in the NBA) are the highest paid on our team.
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What are you talking about? Donyell Marshall isn't on of our highest paid players.
I really, REALLY hope they cut him after the playoffs...that man is totally worthless now.
you had a good run Hank.
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What are you talking about? Donyell Marshall isn't on of our highest paid players.
I really, REALLY hope they cut him after the playoffs...that man is totally worthless now.
Z and the $13 million brick, Hughes.
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Eric Snow $6.09 million
Eric Snow is not worth that either
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Larry Hughes $13.36 million Zydrunas Ilgauskas $9.44 million Drew Gooden $6.64 million Eric Snow $6.09 million Why in the hell are these guys paid more then Lebron?! 
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What are you talking about? Donyell Marshall isn't on of our highest paid players.
I really, REALLY hope they cut him after the playoffs...that man is totally worthless now.
Z and the $13 million brick, Hughes.
2 of the 10 worst players in the NBA? Give me a break Soup. They might be overpaid but they're hardly THAT bad. Just look at some of these salaries of guys that are paid MORE then them. You want to talk about horrible contracts:
Allan Houston (not even in the NBA), NYK - 20 mil
Brian Grant, LA / Boston - 17.3 Mil
Stephon Marbury - NYK 17.2 mil
Grant Hill - ORL - 16.9 mil
Jalen Rose - NYK/PHO - 16 mil
Eddie Jones - Miami 15.7 Mil
Steve Francis - NYK 15 mil
Anfrenee Hardaway - NYK 15 Mi
There's more to list but all those guys are getting paid more then Larry and producing less. Is he worth 13 million? Maybe in the right system but not in ours. He's not a half court player, that's why he's struggled so much with us. Put him on a Phoenix or GS and he would look a lot better. 15, 4 and 4 isn't THAT bad, it's just not worth 13 million. Maybe more like 8-9. Even so, Larry played well the first two series and suddenly can't do anything. Coming in to the Detroit series he was averaging 18.4 PPG in the playoffs. He's just too damn streaky but calling him (or Z) one of the 10 worst player's in the NBA is a joke. We're paying snow 6+ million for 4.2 PPG and 23 minutes........when considering that, paying Larry twice as much for the same defense and 3+ times the offensive production doesn't seem all that bad. 
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Larry Hughes $13.36 million
Zydrunas Ilgauskas $9.44 million
Drew Gooden $6.64 million
Eric Snow $6.09 million
Why in the hell are these guys paid more then Lebron?!
Especially when Pavlovic took Snow's starting job And Gooden is suddenly seeing more bench time in favor of Anderson Varejao 
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is there anyway we can trade the next 3-4 years of draft picks and move up to draft Mike Conley Jr. this year for our PG? lol
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is there anyway we can trade the next 3-4 years of draft picks and move up to draft Mike Conley Jr. this year for our PG? lol
The only saving grace is that after next season, if we still have both players, Z and Hughes will become attractive expiring cotracts (in the next 2 years) for teams looking to unload a superstar player.
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Hughes is Detroits faivorite player
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is there anyway we can trade the next 3-4 years of draft picks and move up to draft Mike Conley Jr. this year for our PG? lol
The Bukeye in me still says,..."Stay in School" ,,......but that's over, so, yes, would that be the Dawg or what,...? Conley at the point dishing to LeBron,...
Dream On
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Quote:
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I'm curious to know what your agenda is here, and assuming you think this is a problem, your solution as well,...
When I figure out if I have an agenda,...I'll let you know !!
Otherwise, I am just a die-hard Cleveland sports fan,...frustrated by years of winning nothing.
Most probably, I am still ticked off at a close friend who I argued with last week about the Steinbrenner payroll. He specifically stated that it's OK for the Yankees, and baseball for allowing it, to do what they do. It's OK to have small market teams wither in oblivion while the Big Boys rake in the cash.
I am by no means a left-wing liberal, but I believe the definition of freedom includes sharing it.
well it certainly seemed you were pressing for something, but I'll take your word for it.
I have the utmost respect and admiration for those that protect this country, but to say "NONE" [no professional athlete] should make more than a private in Iraq, it makes me wonder why? Because it fits your definition of 'fair'? fwiw, I'm not arguing one way or another whether our troops are adequately compensated. It does make it look like you don't have any grasp of basic economics (supply and demand), but that is probably not the case.
I've been a die-hard Cleveland sports fan all my life as well, and I agree that baseball's system is entirely screwed up.
About the sharing it part, already happens. People are already taxed WAY beyond what is 'fair', but that's just my opinion.
Anyway, no point in derailing this thread, I have a few buddies coming over in a bit, we're gonna have some beer and cheer on the Cavs as they climb back in the series.
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Gotta say, at least you give me some quality repsect props, instead of just blowing people off, like a lot of folks on this board do from behind the cloak of a keyboard,....
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You do realize you're probably contributing more money by watching the game at home on tv than you would be if you went to the game in person 
#gmstrong
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is there anyway we can trade the next 3-4 years of draft picks and move up to draft Mike Conley Jr. this year for our PG? lol
I hope not.
yebat' Putin
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Larry Hughes $13.36 million
Donyell Marshall $5.63 million
alot of savings here. . .
Ruining QB's since 1999.
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Is there any decent remedy to all this after the season is over?
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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The only two free agents I liked that we signed were Donyell Marshall who hasn't been great and I honestly don't know why.
The other guy was Sasha, he was a 1st round pick by the Jazz a few years ago but was seen as too soft. He added some weight since then, and I really do see a bright future for the kid and think he will only get better.
i loved when I saw he was int he lineup early this year. Now I had no idea he would develop this fast, but I liked it.
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The only two free agents I liked that we signed were Donyell Marshall who hasn't been great and I honestly don't know why.
The other guy was Sasha, he was a 1st round pick by the Jazz a few years ago but was seen as too soft. He added some weight since then, and I really do see a bright future for the kid and think he will only get better.
i loved when I saw he was int he lineup early this year. Now I had no idea he would develop this fast, but I liked it.
yeah, and so much for being soft... i love that kid, he backs down from nobody...
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If I remember correctly ... I think most of the trouble came the year before LeBron was set to sign his extention (2005). Danny Ferry had to "prove" that the Cavs were trying to build a contender for LeBron, so he "had" to make a big splash in Free Agency to do so. Michael Redd and Ray Allen were 1-2 on that list, but both signed with their respective clubs. That left us over-paying Larry Hughes just to get *somebody* and over-paying Z, just because it was the only guy on the team LeBron trusted. We also overpaid for Donyell and Damon just to get some sort of "shooters" on the outside. Those 4 account for about 90% of our cap problems. It's too bad we didn't go on our spending spree a year earlier ... we could of had Steve Nash. 
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and the cavs would probably be watching the playoffs from their homes...
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