DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Blocking Scheme

Didn't post this in game day even though it has to do with the Jets, since I think it applies to our offense more as a whole throughout the season.

It's really important to check out the actual article to view the images, but I thought this was really cool. I thought our zone running scheme last year worked excellent. Not sure someone can really replicate what the Shanahans do with it (except for Kubiak I suppose), but hopefully we will be able to get back to that run game that we had before Mack went down:

Link

n Sunday, the battle in the trenches will be strength vs. strength. You probably know all about the talent up front on the defensive line for the Jets. Even without the suspended Sheldon Richardson, the Jets are stacked with defensive line talent.

The Browns have an excellent offensive line. It was the foundation for a lot of early success last season the Browns had on the ground. At the point two-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack was lost for the season with a Week 6 broken leg, the Browns had put up at least 122 rushing yards in four of their five games and at least 158 yards in three of their five games. The Cleveland run game fell off after that, but Mack is back on a strong line.




A year ago, the Browns' running game was based on zone blocking. They have a new offensive coordinator, John DeFilippo, but the new man in charge in his public statements has indicated the team will stick with that philosophy.

What does this mean? Part of it should be obvious based on the name. Zone blocking means the blockers are assigned an area of the field or zone to block instead of a specific man.

There is more to it than that. At the snap, the offensive blockers move laterally in the same direction. To open running lanes, you need to move defensive linemen. Driving linemen like Muhammad Wilkerson and Damon Harrison back is difficult. When all of the blockers move in one direction, the defensive linemen have to follow them. The design of the run moves the linemen to help create creases.









It isn't necessarily about blowing the other guy off the ball in this type of scheme. It is about athleticism and positioning. The blocking assignment in a given player's zone might not be lined up close so the lineman has to be nimble enough to get out to block him (red circle). Knowing a zone run play is coming, a defender might run himself out too far. A lineman has to know when this has happened to angle his block in a way that opens a lane for a cutback (blue circle).
















Around Draft time, you might hear about an offensive lineman who is a good fit for a zone scheme. These tend not to be big, lumbering players. They are smaller, athletic types of linemen. This is why.

There is another critical part of zone running plays. They are not designed to go in any particular direction. On a man blockiing run play, there is usually a specific place the back is supposed to run. The blocks are designed to blow open a hole in a particular area. On zone plays, the back can pick any lane he wants. It is his job to identify the correct one.





This is where things get interesting for the Browns. They entered the week with one healthy back on their roster. They traded their leading rusher from a year ago, Terrance West, and rookie Duke Johnson is recovering from a concussion. Isaiah Crowell is the only back they have at the moment. If there is a silver lining for the Browns, Crowell ran for over 5 yards per carry before Mack's injury last season before tailing off rather dramatically.

This type of offense needs a back with a certain skillset. The back needs to have good vision and patience. Sometimes the optimal hole isn't there immediately. He needs to understand his blocking scheme and read the defenders in front of him. He might need to anticipate and wait for the block that springs him. It isn't just about hitting a predetermined hole as hard as possible as it is on many man blocking plays. These are things that have made backs like Marshawn Lynch, DeMarco Murray, and Arian Foster thrive.

Many teams have a mix of man and zone blocking runs. Then there are teams where zone runs are anywhere between the vast majority to all of their run plays. Those are offenses like Seattle, Dallas, and any coached by Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak. (Shanahan's son, Kyle, was Cleveland's offensive coordinator last year.)

DeFilippo has said he will mix in more man blocking elements, but his words suggest at least the Browns will be a heavy zone team. They will have their hands full. The Jets have an extremely talented defensive line. This isn't the first time they have seen zone plays. It is a front difficult to run against. I think this is what Cleveland is going to try to establish. Any team with Josh McCown playing quarterback needs to lean heavily on the run to keep McCown out of third and long.

This wasn't by any means a comprehensive review of zone blocking, but it hopefully provides a general idea of what we can expect Sunday.

hope you dont mind.......

Pictures were a great help...always love those breakdowns

I do wonder if our Oline will struggle this year with this scheme...I pray not as we already have problems all over the place

at the risk of being called a troll once more.... our O-LINE will struggle because of the QBs on the roster. not scheme or talent. JMO

if you watched mccown at the bears he was pretty bad at play action. if you look at the stats it backs what i say. at the bucs they just plain gave up on it he was so bad.

I don't have the Bucs stats handy, but with the Bears McCown attempted 47 play action passes. These were his stats:

30 completions, 350 yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs, QB rating of 107.6.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/Josh-McCown-2.png

I think McCown is bad, but why make stuff up?

well i was going by this.

Two offenses on the other end of the spectrum are Pittsburgh and Chicago. Both were over 22 percentage points better at DVOA without play action last year. For the Bears, that split was prevalent for Jay Cutler and Josh McCown, though Cutler was less successful with play action.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2014/2013-play-action-offense

and ofcourse what i saw.

Of the other three teams in that octet of regressors, two changed offensive coordinators. The Lions and Buccaneers certainly had their fair share of offensive pains, with the latter posting the worst play-action DVOA (-55.9 percent) since the 2010 Panthers, who also went 2-14. Tampa Bay fortunately stopped trying (11 percent play-action rate, 31st overall) and jettisoned Josh McCown this offseason.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2015/2014-play-action-offense

i may be wrong but i do not make things up.

This is some good information. Thank you for providing it.

I apologize for suggesting you were making things up.

In the end it probably doesn't matter, our QB is Josh McCown.

if you watch him he just doest sell it good where he can make the defense hesitate that crucial second. just looks like he just go through the motions.

now the reason i am still talking about that in a O-LINE thread is that it makes it look bad when a deap play is called and no one bites on it.

JMO on this and we will find out sunday.

Don't mind at all. Thanks for doing the hard work.

lmao. well to teach you a little football.... cutler is better at selling it. you could tell by how he used the extra second he would get by pushing the ball down the field twice as much as mccown.






if you actually watched the games you would know..... well maybe you wouldnt lol

Why must you be so insulting? So many of your posts...

Beginning his third full year as a starter, right guard John Greco thinks the group's experience and savvy will sustain it in Moeller's absence.

"We have been in this system two years together now so we have all the groundwork in place," Greco said. "We have a full season under our belt from last year. Everything we have done this camp and the preseason is just going to carry over into the season. It is different each week with game plans and the specific game plans, but we will be able to do that with the coaches we have in there now and the players that we have. We will be able to keep going forward."

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ml#incart_river

well greco seams to think the Scheme is pretty much the same as last year. this is the third year togther for 4 of the 5 starters and the second for all the starters. the talent is there so there should be zero excuse for bad O-LINE play.

And yet... This is my major concern, especially against superior front... like the Jets on Sunday. This will be a real test. Can they open holes and can they keep McCown upright. I am really nervous about neither happening.

yeah, the starters should be no problem... my concern is the rookie that is trying to learn positions all over the line, as well as the four(!) practice squad OL we have on the team.

I really do believe them shape-shifting Erving around the line is definitely stunting his growth. It'll be worth it big time... if we don't need to call his number on GameDay. Use this whole season to master the positions being asked.

i really thought he was mostly at RG and center at training camp. he did not practice that much at LT until joe hurting his knee forced him there?

in the offseason program he was working at LT, RG, RT at least (may have done some LG as well but i can't remember.) They said going into TC they wanted him to focus on RG. Then they played him at LT in the games, mixed with RG.

For some reason, they still haven't worked him at center. If they drafted him without the intention of him taking over at center next year assuming Mack walks, then it was a very dumb pick. Why would you take a guy a year early to play C if you aren't going to get him coached up at C?

You know who would be an awesome guard in this scheme? Eric Steinbach. For pretty much a seriously undersized guy on a NFL caliber oline, that dude could move bodies, move laterally with ease and just was fun watching him pull.

This thread reminded me of him sorry for the flashback!

What I believe will be the telling part of it all will be, how quickly will McCown deliver the football. Of course using play action should help, but he has been know to hold the ball and him being able to sell play action will also be a consideration. The actions of your QB can make a big difference in how the performance of your OL is perceived.

This is a huge point!

I actually believe how much Erving plays and how well he performs in his first two years, may fall on the shoulders of the coaching staff than it does Farmer for these very reasons.

Our offensive line is going to be horrible this season. And by offensive line I mean quarterback.

You do realize Greco and Thomas are at or near the 30 yo mark. I am assuming Greco, being the oldest, is getting most attention.

My (potential) issue with the O-line is based on what I saw during the preseason when there was any type of rush put on by a decent front with the starters in. It wasn't pretty. And I wasn't that impressed with the run blocking either.

To your point, take the first drive in the 3rd Q against Tampa: McCown was decisive, got rid of the ball quickly, drove down and scored. There were also a couple very nice runs. I'm not sure Tampa's front is all that decent though.

I am nervous about the o-line's performance this week. Particularly Mack against Thomas & Harrison against Joe T.

Missing Off of Playaction: PFF tells us that QB Josh McCown has used play action on 12.9% of his pass plays this season, and that only 4 quarterbacks have used playaction less frequently.

Therefore, when it's used, you'd like to think that the defense bites for it pretty hard.



This is a 2nd-and-9 play from midfield on the Browns' next possession after the interception. TE Gary Barnidge is running an intermediate out route with seven other Browns on the line for protection off of a playaction pass.



RG John Greco gets bull-rushed right into McCown's face on this play, and to make matters worse, C Alex Mack's man is slipping by him with a free rush at the quarterback.



We saw McCown connect with Barnidge on a catch-and-run touchdown like this against the Raiders several weeks ago. Had McCown had a little more time and space to step into a throw, he could've thrown the ball more upfield and let Barnidge get under it. Instead, he had to rush the throw to the outside, and it sails beyond the outstretched arms of his tight end. Cleveland had to punt after not converting on third down.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/10/21/...loss-to-broncos

no i am not wrong. his yards per attempt are lower and his completion persenctage is lower. the guy just cant sell it.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout

Cleveland Browns' offensive line needs to pick up its game instead of picking up its quarterback: Tom Reed analysis


BEREA, Ohio – If the NFL wanted to punish Johnny Manziel for his recent off-field incident, it should have ordered coach Mike Pettine to put him into Sunday's game earlier and let the backup absorb the abuse Josh McCown suffered.

The 36-year-old starter probably still is wiping the musk of Mark Barron, William Hayes, Nick Fairley and Aaron Donald from his battered body. That's assuming McCown's injured shoulder enables him to reach every crevice with a washcloth.

"I saw a couple hits today watching the film and I'm like, 'How did he get up from that one?'" left guard Joel Bitonio told reporters Monday. "It's tough to see, but he's a tough guy, man."

Unless the offensive line wants to watch McCown become a replacement for Chuck Norris memes, they might want to start blocking better. It's one thing to extol his grit, it's quite another to witness him kneeling on the turf for 10 seconds clutching his head after another wicked shot from a relentless Rams defense.

In a season filled with unexpected turns, perhaps the most surprising has been the overall play of the line. Considered the strength of the offense the past few years, the veteran unit has struggled to run block and protect its quarterbacks.

The Browns rank 29th in yards per rushing attempt (3.6), while only the Seahawks have surrendered more sacks that the Browns (26). To put the protection issues into perspective, the club yielded just 31 sacks all of last season.

It's not like McCown has the mobility of Brandon Weeden or Bernie Kosar, either. He's a nimble guy for his age and he's probably eluded more than a handful of sacks with scrambles.

McCown completed 26 of 32 passes for 270 yards and a 101.8 passer rating against St. Louis, but left the 24-6 loss with a shoulder injury in the fourth quarter. Wiffle balls don't get dented as often as he did Sunday. The Rams sacked McCown four times and drilled him on several other occasions.

Coach Mike Pettine said Monday he intends to start McCown against the Cardinals presuming he's healthy enough to play.

"We have to know, and our guys knew it watching the film, that we have to protect this guy," Pettine said of McCown who lost two fumbles on strip sacks. "You can't have your quarterback go through a game like that. I don't care if he is Josh's age or if he is 23. It is not good business."

This season is spiraling toward irrelevance at 2-5 for several reasons. The club can't stop the run for a second straight year despite making changes to address the problem. It's giving up too many big gains in part because of injuries to a secondary that's rarely played together since the start of preseason.

The offensive line, however, has been intact and injury free. It's not relying on any undrafted free agents or low-round picks.

Left tackle Joe Thomas and center Alex Mack boast Pro Bowl pedigrees. Bitonio enjoyed an excellent rookie season. Right guard John Greco has been steady in his time here. Mitchell Schwartz had a good season going – the analytics website ProFootballFocus.com rated him the league's top right tackle – before allowing three sacks and five quarterback hurries Sunday.

But the unit hasn't found its groove. Mack is slow to regain his form after breaking a leg a year ago. Bitonio, who Pettine labeled the team's "breakout player" in preseason, isn't as effective. The offensive front has played a major role in the club being the league's third-most penalized team. Bitonio's seven penalties rank second-most among all linemen, according to NFLpenalties.com.

There are mitigating circumstances to consider:

• The Browns fired position coach Andy Moeller due to an off-field incident in the days prior to the start of the regular season.

• The club has faced three of the NFL's top-4 defenses (Broncos, Jets, Titans) and the Rams possess one of the game's nastiest fronts.

• The Browns' poor starts – six first-quarter points in the past five games – have them constantly playing from behind. It's forced them to throw more than they want, leading to increased sack opportunities.

On Sunday, the Browns had trouble communicating inside a noisy dome and found themselves in too many passing situations. Linemen took three false starts and three holding penalties.

"I think all of us could probably say on the O-line that we had one or two (plays) that we'd want back that were pretty ugly for us," Bitonio told reporters. "It was kind of a perfect storm in that sense. Usually, if you make one mistake, somebody can cover it up if everybody else is playing their best. We just all weren't at our best yesterday."

Bottom line: The unit hasn't been at its best most of the season.

Through six weeks, the analytics site FootballOutsiders.com rated the Browns' run blocking 22nd and pass protection 26th. Those are underachieving stations for a group with so much individual talent and continuity.

It's been a bizarre season. McCown is better than expected. Tight end Gary Barnidge is compiling Pro Bowl numbers. Meanwhile, the line is spending too much time picking up its quarterback after watching him get knocked to the turf.

Not long ago, teammates implored McCown to stop taking so many unnecessary hits. Over the last few weeks, he's not had much choice.

A tough quarterback is great. An upright one is even better.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...ml#incart_river

The line hasn't been perfect, but guys who hold the ball too long do get sacked more. Reed forgot to mention that.

Pass blocking definitely not he issue. WR's not winning 1 on 1, run blocking is pathetic.


A team with ZERO identity. "We want to run the ball and stop the run" blah blah blah......pass blocking O-line, worst in the league stopping the run.....

Neat.

well i remember a poster said mccown was going to make our o-line look worse than it is. ofcourse he was called a troll.

wasnt the pics or the one play. that was just part of the artical. it was what i put in bold.

"
Missing Off of Playaction: PFF tells us that QB Josh McCown has used play action on 12.9% of his pass plays this season, and that only 4 quarterbacks have used playaction less frequently."

thats what i wanted you to see.

Teams that can run call play action and teams that can't run don't.

It's that simple. Teams don't bluff what they can't do in the first place.

j/c... FWIW

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...a9-8297c2a4d7b2

Nathan Zegura: "And you prefer a more power running style than say, a zone style"

Hue Jackson: "Ohhh yeah."

He's gonna have to adapt, because we don't have straight bullies on the O line, we got finesse guys.

We couldn't covert a 3/4 and 1 or 2 to save our lives this season.

Does this mean we are in trouble? Seems to me, power running is not our forte...

Is it safe to say the reason we don't get those 3rd and 2's is because of the line?