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Denver is in a bit of cap bind thoughts Browns go heavy after Brock Osweiler. The Broncos will be in pretty good shape after Manning is gone. They can also cut or restructure with Clady. http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-spacehttp://overthecap.com/salary-cap/denver-broncosAnother, if Hue made Campbell look good, is there a chance Austin Davis can be as good? Put play makers around Davis like Marv did for Dalton. Davis did well playing for Southern Mississippi. How much a difference is there vs. Wentz? Davis is not nearly as physically talented as Dalton.
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If we draft Goff he better gain 25 pounds of muscle by Sept. or he won't live to see Oct.  I'd love to see them go after Brock Osweiler. Unfortunately, I'm sure the Bronco's will sign him long before we get a shot at him. I thought he played very well in relief this year. Give him a year or two experience and he might be something very special. I don't know what the Harvard club is thinking QB wise, but I hope they attack the position like the Seahawks did. Draft, sign, and trade for as many QB's as it takes to eventually find the right one. If they like Goff or some other QB in the draft, GREAT. But don't pin all your hopes on one guy. Hedge your bet and draft a guy later too. Or trade for a backup looking to make the move up to starter. Starting out camp with 5 or 6 QB's on the roster wouldn't upset me one bit.
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Denver is in a bit of cap bind thoughts Browns go heavy after Brock Osweiler. The Broncos will be in pretty good shape after Manning is gone. They can also cut or restructure with Clady. http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-spacehttp://overthecap.com/salary-cap/denver-broncosAnother, if Hue made Campbell look good, is there a chance Austin Davis can be as good? Put play makers around Davis like Marv did for Dalton. Davis did well playing for Southern Mississippi. How much a difference is there vs. Wentz? Davis is not nearly as physically talented as Dalton. And still sign their LBs and DL too? On Davis, I've consider your point before posting. It is very valid. I simply wonder what the kid can do given a team of talent. Rams and Browns cupboard was bear. I'm simply looking at the talent at QB in this draft. Can Davis match up next few years bypassing taking a QB this year? Davis that weak Browns can't avoid taking a QB. Play McCown and Davis draft Dak Presscott?
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And still sign their LBs and DL too? They already have over $10 million in cap space. Manning retiring would give them an extra $19 million. Cutting Clady would give them a little less than $9 million. And the cap will probably go up some. Osweiler are the only guys they have to sign.
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And still sign their LBs and DL too? They already have over $10 million in cap space. Manning retiring would give them an extra $19 million. Cutting Clady would give them a little less than $9 million. And the cap will probably go up some. Osweiler are the only guys they have to sign. Hmmmm, I heard different. Maybe they are better than I thought.
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And still sign their LBs and DL too? They already have over $10 million in cap space. Manning retiring would give them an extra $19 million. Cutting Clady would give them a little less than $9 million. And the cap will probably go up some. Osweiler are the only guys they have to sign. They have to sign most of their defensive front 7, they probably want to resign Mathis because he played well in the playoffs after healing up. If they don't sign a few of their free agent 0-lineman, they'll need to sign replacements. They are also going to have to tie up a lot of that money resigning Von Miller or franchising him.
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And still sign their LBs and DL too? They already have over $10 million in cap space. Manning retiring would give them an extra $19 million. Cutting Clady would give them a little less than $9 million. And the cap will probably go up some. Osweiler are the only guys they have to sign. They have to sign most of their defensive front 7, they probably want to resign Mathis because he played well in the playoffs after healing up. If they don't sign a few of their free agent 0-lineman, they'll need to sign replacements. They are also going to have to tie up a lot of that money resigning Von Miller or franchising him. My guess is that their priority is to get Osweiler or Miller locked up to a long term deal and then franchise the other one. Anything else is gravy (they already signed Wolfe to an extension).
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My guess is that their priority is to get Osweiler or Miller locked up to a long term deal and then franchise the other one.
Anything else is gravy (they already signed Wolfe to an extension).
My thought is Denver will tag Miller and work out a deal for Osweiler, who's suspect at this point. Seems like the path of least resistance at this point in time.
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My guess is that their priority is to get Osweiler or Miller locked up to a long term deal and then franchise the other one.
Anything else is gravy (they already signed Wolfe to an extension).
My thought is Denver will tag Miller and work out a deal for Osweiler, who's suspect at this point. Seems like the path of least resistance at this point in time. Yeah, something along those lines. If it was me, I'd prefer to franchise Osweiler so that he's only under contract one year. If he stinks, then you just cut him loose with no repercussions (I guess they could also sign him to a Dalton/Tannehill/Kaepernick type where it is year-to-year).
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I look for the new Browns management to want a fresh start, drafting a QB with the Browns first selection.
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I look for the new Browns management to want a fresh start, drafting a QB with the Browns first selection. I think you are right, I just don't know which one they'll take!
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I look for the new Browns management to want a fresh start, drafting a QB with the Browns first selection. I think you are right, I just don't know which one they'll take! This does appear to be the general consensus...
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Well.........defense doesn't matter. They only need Osweiler and they'll be set.  I mentioned this on another thread, but no one replied, but I think it is important enough to discuss: If the Browns take a QB at number 2, they are almost bound to give that guy time to develop. The Browns took Timid and gave him way too long. The result was passing on good QBs that were available in the following year's drafts. The Browns also committed to BQ and Weeden for spells, again passing on QBs that could have helped turn this franchise around. Actually, Manziel is the one guy who has not received a substantial amount of time, but that is ONLY because of his off-the-field antics. I am not impressed w/the QBs in this upcoming draft. I do NOT see any of them as top-tier QBs. I see guys who are more along the lines of McCown, Gabbert, Foles, Kap, Hoyer, Mettenberger, etc. Having to commit to such a QB for 3 years and then passing on worthy QBs in upcoming drafts is a very risky proposition, especially when factoring in that drafting a qb at number 2 would also mean that you aren't getting an impact player at another position that is so desperately needed. The phrase about drafting a qb if you don't have one is not always as clear-cut as some believe it to be. Drafting the wrong qb w/such a high pick can produce severe consequences that will negatively impact a franchise for years.
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Well.........defense doesn't matter. They only need Osweiler and they'll be set. I mentioned this on another thread, but no one replied, but I think it is important enough to discuss: If the Browns take a QB at number 2, they are almost bound to give that guy time to develop. The Browns took Timid and gave him way too long. The result was passing on good QBs that were available in the following year's drafts. The Browns also committed to BQ and Weeden for spells, again passing on QBs that could have helped turn this franchise around. Actually, Manziel is the one guy who has not received a substantial amount of time, but that is ONLY because of his off-the-field antics. I am not impressed w/the QBs in this upcoming draft. I do NOT see any of them as top-tier QBs. I see guys who are more along the lines of McCown, Gabbert, Foles, Kap, Hoyer, Mettenberger, etc. Having to commit to such a QB for 3 years and then passing on worthy QBs in upcoming drafts is a very risky proposition, especially when factoring in that drafting a qb at number 2 would also mean that you aren't getting an impact player at another position that is so desperately needed. The phrase about drafting a qb if you don't have one is not always as clear-cut as some believe it to be. Drafting the wrong qb w/such a high pick can produce severe consequences that will negatively impact a franchise for years. I agree, particularly with that last paragraph. having said that, you know where we are Vers, you are the GM, what would you do right now to fix the problem. Keep in mind, you already have your coaching staff in place, you have the second pick and the 32nd pick in the draft. You have McCown and Manziel under contract. You got a couple of young guys that have some skills, but they don't excite you as a long term answer. You also need a Stud WR, A stud LB and maybe even another CB (because you can't count on Gilbert) Not to mention that two big holes in the Oline could smack you in the face. That's basically the situation that Sashi Brown and the lead dogs find themselves in. What would you do?
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I mentioned this on another thread, but no one replied, Probably because you'd just tell them how horrible they are with their evaluations and opinions on QBs. You know, like you normally do.
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Davis in discussion as our Starting QB is simply not an option. If I had to compare Davis with somebody it would be Texan's Yates.
Osweiller - if he is a Franchise QB, I don't think so but still if he is. Denver will not let him get away.
Not an option.
Vers, Not taking a QB - not sure when? I only see two that got away from us - Big Ben in 04 (we already gave up on Couch as we got Garcia to start)
The other was in 05 with Rodgers and we were not developing anyone.
I didn't see us ever commit to BQ, evidently he just sucked from the get go.
Weeden we committed to but I don't we had an option as QBs were not options in the draft and 2014 we took Manziel.
This is the truth...we got to be the most unluckiest team going as we were always in the wrong spot at the wrong times except for those two missed opportunities.
Mangini won his last 4 games to get us out of the Bradford running. We could have drafted Sanchez but wisely traded out of that slot. But there was no good QB in our slots.
Our Timing has always Sucked.
I think this is a solid class...possibly we could wait for 32 to make our pick. There is no clear cut top 5 or 10 QB but if we want one and think they are a Franchise QB...I think its a given we will take him at 2 and I think that is a wise decision. Who cares if we take him at 2 or 11...if we think he is THE GUY...you take him.
I think it is a 90% lock we are taking a QB at #2...possibly we can make a very small trade back but it would have to be #3 cause 4 is the Cowboys and they should take a QB.
Defense is the bet way to become competitive so we cannot ignore that. Mingo, Gilbert has hurt our Defensive investment. Losing Gipson if we do hurts. I like Orchard but he is more a replacement for Kruger than the fast Edge Rusher going against the LT.
WR - I think we go for one of Hue's Bengal WRs in FA combine with a returning Gordon, Hawkins, Barnidge (Maybe sign Benjamin...we should be just fine. Better go with D at 32 and several picks.
jmho - I still say Cook at 32 might be our best option. Nobody will think he should start right away so he can learn and fix his faults. I also like the kid from Dakota, small school and all. If he is determined as football intelligent and has the will to become the best. A good investment even at #2.
jmho
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I would pass on a qb at number 2. I would draft a player that I think could impact the game. A game-changer. A guy who other teams have to game plan for. Ideally, that would be a pass rusher or WR. I don't really see a WR worthy of the second overall pick, so I would be trying to get the elite pass rusher w/my first pick and then take a WR w/the 32nd.
Obviously, you have to respect your board and can't overdraft a guy just for position, but I would be hoping that my horizontal and vertical boards would match up closely enough to get a pass rusher w/the first round pick, a WR at 32 and a CB in the 3rd.
I would take a flyer on a qb later in the draft. Someone like Hogan. I wouldn't be counting on him to be the guy, but I'm hoping he can become a Cousins and expecting him to be a guy like Davis.
The franchise qb thing would be in waiting.........whether it be in a future draft, trade, or free agency. The latter two are not great in regards to odds, but it does occasionally occur.
Now, w/all of that said.........the Browns may deem one of this year's QBs to be "the guy." I don't see it, but they might really believe that one of those guys can be a franchise qb. If they believe that......they should take him, but they better be right because again, the guy is probably going to get three years minimum if the team spends the second overall pick in the draft on him.
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tab, there have been many qbs that were available. I will provide this link and you can see for yourself: http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2015/04/success_for_quarterbacks_picke.htmlBut, that really isn't the point. My point is that if the Browns take a QB w/the second overall pick, they will almost certainly give him three years. I just don't see a guy in this qb class that is worth that type of investment.
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they will almost certainly give him three years. I just don't see a guy in this qb class that is worth that type of investment.
True, pretty much a certainty we will develop him and commit to 3 years unless we blow it up again and the new guy has no ties to the commitment.
Where we might differ is you think there is nobody worth that commitment...I think there are at least 2...3 if you include Cook at 32.
jmho Its ok to have a difference of opinion.
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jc...
There are many options for the Browns and given the situation, with the Browns needing to fill so many needs...if the Harvard bunch traded back to gain more picks, it would be hard to criticize them.
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Yeah.......I am not saying my evaluation of this year's qbs is correct.
It's just something to think about, because if they draft one of these guys w/the second overall pick and fail to address other glaring needs and then almost certainly have to pass on other top qb prospects for the next few years because they wanna give their guy a shot..............
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...getting an impact player at another position that is so desperately needed. It's fun to speculate on the #2 and #32 spots, but let's see what the FA period brings us to better define what we want/need at those spots. The larger picture should be somewhat more clear by then...
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We haven't picked this early since 2000. I really don't think we will be in the top 5 or 10 as we improve a little even with McCown starting. If there is a great prospect he will be had well before we pick.
Just the Browns fortunes.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
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Just the Browns fortunes.
Someone else mentioned that we must be the unluckiest franchise in this regard. Maybe that's why we are hiring guys from the Colts. Now that is a franchise that knows how to suck. #1 overall pick and select: Andrew Luck Peyton Manning John Elway Jeff George Bert Jones All were clearly the top Qb's coming into the draft and considered potential future Hall of Famers. Manning and Elway are 2 of the greatest of all time. George and Jones didn't live up to the hype but were both pretty good Qb's. Luck is still to be dtermined.
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J/C
My attitude on this is I want a good QB. He doesn't have to be a "franchise" player, as in a top 4-5 guy. He needs to be a good player.
I don't consider Dalton a franchise QB. To me, franchise qbs are players with HOF written on them. How about a player who you can win with? You don't need a "franchise" QB to do that. You just need a good QB.
If Goff, or Wentz, or whoever can be that and we don't feel we can find that later in the draft, I take one of them at #2. We can't keep fooling around and not have a solid QB on this team.
I don't normally like to draft for need or reach, but to me it's not a reach if you pass a player and he is gone by the next round. It isn't. You took the player when you had the chance.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I would pass on a qb at number 2. I would draft a player that I think could impact the game. A game-changer. Maybe like Bosa? A guy who other teams have to game plan for. Ideally, that would be a pass rusher or WR. I don't really see a WR worthy of the second overall pick, so I would be trying to get the elite pass rusher w/my first pick and then take a WR w/the 32nd.
Obviously, you have to respect your board and can't overdraft a guy just for position, but I would be hoping that my horizontal and vertical boards would match up closely enough to get a pass rusher w/the first round pick, a WR at 32 and a CB in the 3rd.
I would take a flyer on a qb later in the draft. Someone like Hogan. I wouldn't be counting on him to be the guy, but I'm hoping he can become a Cousins and expecting him to be a guy like Davis.
The franchise qb thing would be in waiting.........whether it be in a future draft, trade, or free agency. The latter two are not great in regards to odds, but it does occasionally occur.
Now, w/all of that said.........the Browns may deem one of this year's QBs to be "the guy." I don't see it, but they might really believe that one of those guys can be a franchise qb. If they believe that......they should take him, but they better be right because again, the guy is probably going to get three years minimum if the team spends the second overall pick in the draft on him. So, what do we do this year for a QB? Manziel, McCown? Who? Can we actually go another year with these guys? by the way, I think Manziel is gone as the reports seem to indicate.
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I would pass on a qb at number 2. I would draft a player that I think could impact the game. A game-changer. A guy who other teams have to game plan for. Ideally, that would be a pass rusher or WR. I don't really see a WR worthy of the second overall pick, so I would be trying to get the elite pass rusher w/my first pick and then take a WR w/the 32nd.
Obviously, you have to respect your board and can't overdraft a guy just for position, but I would be hoping that my horizontal and vertical boards would match up closely enough to get a pass rusher w/the first round pick, a WR at 32 and a CB in the 3rd.
I would take a flyer on a qb later in the draft. Someone like Hogan. I wouldn't be counting on him to be the guy, but I'm hoping he can become a Cousins and expecting him to be a guy like Davis.
The franchise qb thing would be in waiting.........whether it be in a future draft, trade, or free agency. The latter two are not great in regards to odds, but it does occasionally occur.
Now, w/all of that said.........the Browns may deem one of this year's QBs to be "the guy." I don't see it, but they might really believe that one of those guys can be a franchise qb. If they believe that......they should take him, but they better be right because again, the guy is probably going to get three years minimum if the team spends the second overall pick in the draft on him. Very reasonable plan. But still no long term solution for QB. McCown is okay for next year. What about after that? Counting on a 5th/6th round pick to develop? How many times has that developed in the history of the NFL? Once. You acknowledge that trade and free agency are unlikely ways to acquire a Qb. That leaves the draft. Their are currently no readily apparent top Qb prospects in the next year's draft. After that maybe Rozen? Maybe someone else develops. But then you are counting on us having a high enough draft pick to actually get that guy. You lay out a nice one year plan but if we want to win the Super Bowl, the Qb position will eventually need to be resolved. What is you plan for that? So I ask you, what hurts us more? 1 - Drafting one of these Qb's and having them fail or 2 - Not drafting one of these Qb's and having them succeed And you can't use the argument that we would draft an impact player in place of that Qb because we are just as likely to draft a bust. Given our history we are probably more likely to draft a bust regardless of position.
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I really don't think we will be in the top 5 or 10 as we improve ... And this is part of the problem in determining whether to pick a QB or not. As your record improves, it becomes progressively more difficult/expensive to get the QB you lack...
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Can we actually go another year with these guys? Even should we draft a QB at #2, we likely will be starting McCown anyway. He should be good for another season with Davis to back him up should an injury occur...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I said that we would have to utilize all three avenues: the draft, trades, and free agency to acquire our qb. What I laid out had nothing to do w/winning a Super Bowl next year. In fact, despite what tab and 32 say, I believe the Browns will suck again next year.
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I would pass on a qb at number 2. I would draft a player that I think could impact the game. A game-changer. Maybe like Bosa? A guy who other teams have to game plan for. Ideally, that would be a pass rusher or WR. I don't really see a WR worthy of the second overall pick, so I would be trying to get the elite pass rusher w/my first pick and then take a WR w/the 32nd.
Obviously, you have to respect your board and can't overdraft a guy just for position, but I would be hoping that my horizontal and vertical boards would match up closely enough to get a pass rusher w/the first round pick, a WR at 32 and a CB in the 3rd.
I would take a flyer on a qb later in the draft. Someone like Hogan. I wouldn't be counting on him to be the guy, but I'm hoping he can become a Cousins and expecting him to be a guy like Davis.
The franchise qb thing would be in waiting.........whether it be in a future draft, trade, or free agency. The latter two are not great in regards to odds, but it does occasionally occur.
Now, w/all of that said.........the Browns may deem one of this year's QBs to be "the guy." I don't see it, but they might really believe that one of those guys can be a franchise qb. If they believe that......they should take him, but they better be right because again, the guy is probably going to get three years minimum if the team spends the second overall pick in the draft on him. So, what do we do this year for a QB? Manziel, McCown? Who? Can we actually go another year with these guys? by the way, I think Manziel is gone as the reports seem to indicate. 
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To me, it's simple: if we really like a QB, take him at #2 and don't look back.
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Posts: 17,475 |
In fact, despite what tab and 32 say
Its fine to have a different opinion than mine. 1. In fact - you had no fact there.
2. I said we will improve (now there is me going off that HOMER deep end again, geesh we all know we cannot improve from the 2nd worst team in the NFL)
3. I said that we will find a hard time seeing ourselves pick in the top 5 or even the top 10 to think about the TOP QBs in the Draft. 6, 7 or 8 wins is not so far fetched. 5 wins Probably get us out of the top 5 where the Stud QBs are.
Again have an opinion. But you miss represented my opinion to be some pie in the sky thing. When I was being very realistic.
Please don't go and get defensive and say for me to chill out. If I did the same to you miss represented you opinion I would think all heck would let loose. I am not angry at you just showing where you are mistaken of my opinion. We might not "SUCK" that is true with my opinion but it will take a year or 2 to become a playoff team.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
In fact, despite what tab and 32 say
Not sure why my post upset you so much???? Here is the actual quote that I made: In fact, despite what tab and 32 say, I believe the Browns will suck again next year. Do you see that part about "...I believe...." That means "in my opinion." I wasn't dogging you. I was stating a contrary opinion. It was not intended to be offensive at all.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
and say for me to chill out.Not sure why my post upset you so much?See I've read the book before...lol 
One I am not upset. In the end yes, you are right I don't think we "suck" so I guess I see your point. As long as you know I'm not in any la di da land...lol I think we will be closer to 8-8 this coming season of course assuming we make some inroads in improving the team.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,806 |
I said that we would have to utilize all three avenues: the draft, trades, and free agency to acquire our qb. What I laid out had nothing to do w/winning a Super Bowl next year. In fact, despite what tab and 32 say, I believe the Browns will suck again next year. I believe that we will suck again next year also. But even if we have the #1 overall pick in next year's draft, I don't see any draft eligible Qb's worthy of that pick. So we are in the same situation. Premier Qb's don't get traded or hit free agency. So that leaves us with taking a gamble on a teams backup Qb. Risky at best.
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,518 |
J\C Get Mettengberg problem solved JMHO
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
I said that we would have to utilize all three avenues: the draft, trades, and free agency to acquire our qb. What I laid out had nothing to do w/winning a Super Bowl next year. In fact, despite what tab and 32 say, I believe the Browns will suck again next year. I believe that we will suck again next year also. But even if we have the #1 overall pick in next year's draft, I don't see any draft eligible Qb's worthy of that pick. So we are in the same situation. Premier Qb's don't get traded or hit free agency. So that leaves us with taking a gamble on a teams backup Qb. Risky at best. Brad Kaaya, Gunner Kiel and Patrick Towles disagree.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
j/c
After a 3-13 season I think the easiest prediction to make, and end up being right, is to say we will suck again next year. Not really going out on a limb there.
#gmstrong
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
j/c
After a 3-13 season I think the easiest prediction to make, and end up being right, is to say we will suck again next year. Not really going out on a limb there. It's best going into the season with that mindset because it provides padding when the reality starts unfolding which results in less disappointment. Lots of questions, lots of concerns, lots of areas that need attention - Hue going to be a busy, busy man.
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