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http://247sports.com/Bolt/Joe-Thomas-selected-to-PFWA-All-NFL-Team-42936408Joe Thomas selected to PFWA All-NFL Team
Josh Edwards - 20 hours ago 0
Cleveland Newsletter
(Photo: Matthew Emmons, USA TODAY Sports)
Cleveland Browns offensive tackle Joe Thomas was selected to the Pro Football Writer's Association 2015 All-NFL team for the sixth time in his career, the organization announced on Monday. Center Alex Mack joined Thomas on the PFWA 2015 All-AFC team. The two were the only representatives of the team.
The 31-year old Thomas has been selected to the NFL Pro Bowl in each of his nine seasons in the NFL. He has also notably not missed an offensive snap. He is the only lineman to be selected to the Pro Bowl in nine consecutive seasons to begin his career. The 30-year old Mack has made it to the Pro Bowl three times.
Thomas was one of four AFC North players to be selected to the All-NFL team. Baltimore Ravens offensive guard Marshal Yanda, Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver Antonio Brown and Cincinnati Bengals defensive tackle Geno Atkins were also granted the honor. I thought it deserved it's own thread.
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Trade him
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Trade him
for whatever we can get.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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impossible. he had a couple false starts in that one game.
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his score on Madden? It totally dipped below 96..... gotta get what we can, while we can
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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A package deal.. Joe and Johnny to San Fran for Dawson.
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Trade him
Don't take this wrong, but there is something to buy low, sell high. I don't want to trade Joe, but if he requests we do, I do. His value is about as high as it is going to get, and he is probably more than half way past his pro-bowl career. At some point us fans need to view this as a business. The players and owners sure as heck do.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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We've also had one playoff birth since we came back. Maybe we should stop seeing this as a business, but instead a football team.
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We've also had one playoff birth since we came back. Maybe we should stop seeing this as a business, but instead a football team. The Pats have been to a few over the years, and it is business all the way. You don't think Bill holds on to players for sentimental value, do you? Think Bernie Kosar.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Trade him
That had better be a Hershel Walker type trade. Anything else and we're giving him away.
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We've also had one playoff birth since we came back. Maybe we should stop seeing this as a business, but instead a football team. The Pats have been to a few over the years, and it is business all the way. You don't think Bill holds on to players for sentimental value, do you? Think Bernie Kosar.
...isn't that what Haslam would say?..or is Haslam simply a hypocrite about his Pittsburgh roots and wanting to use the Steelers as a model to build the Browns after?
Last edited by mac; 01/19/16 08:30 PM.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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We've also had one playoff birth since we came back. Maybe we should stop seeing this as a business, but instead a football team. The Pats have been to a few over the years, and it is business all the way. You don't think Bill holds on to players for sentimental value, do you? Of course not, but I don't think Bill lets go all pros because, "he runs things like a business." It's really a nonsensical term. All I'm trying to point out.
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peen, w/all due respect...........Joe Thomas is the best LT in all of football. Bernie Kosar was washed-up when Bill benched him. Not the best of comparisons.
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Exactly. If Joe wants out he deserves a trade, but we better rape whomever we trade him to.
Either way we will see him in Canton.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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Exactly. If Joe wants out he deserves a trade, but we better rape whomever we trade him to.
Either way we will see him in Canton. Is raping someone a good or bad thing? I'm confused.
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Exactly. If Joe wants out he deserves a trade, but we better rape whomever we trade him to.
Either way we will see him in Canton. Is raping someone and good or bad thing? I'm confused. Yeah, I wish people would drop that term when referring to football. It is a vile act, and nothing I want my football team, or its players, associated with.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Honestly, Joe Thomas being a Brown has provided us with very little in terms of wins over losses. Playmakers usually do that. Could we have been a worse team without him? No question. But an elite LT is not a difference maker without other difference makers.
However, at least we have someone who will represent us in Canton within the next 15 years. As a result, we might as well keep him and make him a lifelong Brown. Let him retire in 5 years and go into the HOF in 2025 as our guy.
"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Jeudy is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Tillman is flanked out wide to the right. Judkins and Ford are split in the backfield as Flacco takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Are you paid to be the moral judge of the board?
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peen, w/all due respect...........Joe Thomas is the best LT in all of football. Bernie Kosar was washed-up when Bill benched him. Not the best of comparisons. Fair point.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong
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Honestly, Joe Thomas being a Brown has provided us with very little in terms of wins over losses. Playmakers usually do that. Could we have been a worse team without him? No question. But an elite LT is not a difference maker without other difference makers.
However, at least we have someone who will represent us in Canton within the next 15 years. As a result, we might as well keep him and make him a lifelong Brown. Let him retire in 5 years and go into the HOF in 2025 as our guy.
But you can say that about every position in football. Oh a lot of good it does having a HOFer this or that what good did it do us. We needed other elite variables to have HIS elite play mean something.
Fact is we have him. Fact is its the #2 most rare talent in football only behind QB. The fact we had him and so far wasted it had nothing to do with Joe Thomas. It does not reflect on our investment in him being wrong. We invested in the #2 rarest position in the NFL and got a 9 time straight PRO-Bowler a sure HOFer and a man who has yet to miss a snap in the NFL. Lot of good it did us? As in the wrong plan or move???
No just a shame in his 9 year career he is seeing his 6th head coach!
jmho - yeah if after talking with HUE and he is not sold and requesting a trade if the 1st round PLUS offer is out there we should take it. But we should also commit in the draft at #2 for that stud LT from OLE MISS???
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Good post.
If any of you guys have been watching the playoffs, you might have noted that the real difference between the teams is in the trenches.
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Good post.
If any of you guys have been watching the playoffs, you might have noted that the real difference between the teams is in the trenches. Which is why I have been screaming about that since well before 1999.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Good post.
If any of you guys have been watching the playoffs, you might have noted that the real difference between the teams is in the trenches. Which is why I have been screaming about that since well before 1999. So true. Besides, Browns have a potential HOF guy. In Cleveland's 100 years of crap football, why, repeat why, on earth do you rid oneself of such player? When is the last time a HOF player walked through the doors of Berea?
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I've been watching the playoffs, and I don't see the importance of the OL... Good defenses, good QB play, excellent coaching, that's whats been making the difference.
The big fat guys , IMHO, are wayyyy over rated and Cleveland/Dallas kinds of proves that.
Now we have, according to EO, the best player in the second most important position, and his success is ZERO. Last time we went to the playoffs, JT wasn't here.
Also, just think a bit about that, your are the DC that faces Cleveland, how do you neutralize JT?
In the running game, is not that hard... and in the pass protection you just move your best rusher away from the weak side.
You see, an average/modest LB is enough to counter the best pass protector in the league, you just assume the LT wins....
All and all, IMHO, JT lacks character, he is used to be a loser and he doesn't mind, deep down he prefers fishing to football.
In the end who cares if we trade him, its not that we are going to be worst then we already are/have been with JT and Mack and the superstar OL...
Last edited by rastanplan; 01/21/16 10:16 AM.
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#gmstrong
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I've been watching the playoffs, and I don't see the importance of the OL... Good defenses, good QB play, excellent coaching, that's whats been making the difference.
The big fat guys , IMHO, are wayyyy over rated and Cleveland/Dallas kinds of proves that. All Cleveland and Dallas prove is that OL can't win you a bunch of games... but they can lose you a bunch of games if they aren't at least decent or if you aren't exceptional in other areas.. All and all, IMHO, JT lacks character, he is used to be a loser and he doesn't mind, deep down he prefers fishing to football. I guess everybody is entitled to their opinion... 
yebat' Putin
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I've been watching the playoffs, and I don't see the importance of the OL.. This has my vote for the most bizarre comment of the year. The importance of the OL's and DL's has been huge in this year's playoff games. I mean...........nothing sticks out more than that while watching the games.
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I've been watching the playoffs, and I don't see the importance of the OL.. This has my vote for the most bizarre comment of the year. The importance of the OL's and DL's has been huge in this year's playoff games. I mean...........nothing sticks out more than that while watching the games. So lets see, shall we. Starting with the Patriots... that's an easy one B&B are the reason of the success. Denver... D is the strength and whats being the key for success.. Arizona- D again and Bruce Arians Panthers - all around good team, playing super D and a difference maker at QB... Which team in the NFL today is winning because of a super OL? Steelers? Cincy? Kansas? Texans ... any ? Now, I agree that a bad OL is a secret for failure although we have seen very bad/depleted OL teams having success (Eagles...) ,but saying OL's are showing themselves in this playoffs, I'm not seeing it. I've been preaching this for years, no team can succeed with an obvious weak point. Opponents will explore it and beat you most of the games. Teams have to be balanced to succeed, and the way the game is played you MUST have impact players. That's true to most if not all sports. Solid all around teams with Impact players that can create mismatches. Usually the team with the best Impact players are the ones that win. IMPACT players make the difference, and to be an impact player you must play in a pro-active position. Now most of the times OL are reactive positions, so the advantage is on the DC. This off course is the rule, and there can be exceptions in OL players. Exceptional mental, game knowledgeable players that make the hole unit and team improve and tip the game. Unfortunately its not the case for us. Cleveland is the prove of the myth. OL doesn't make an average QB elite, it prevents an average QB from looking bad so many times... and I'm not even sure about this one...
Last edited by rastanplan; 01/21/16 11:02 AM.
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d Cleveland/Dallas kinds of proves that.
All Cleveland and Dallas prove is that OL can't win you a bunch of games... but they can lose you a bunch of games if they aren't at least decent or if you aren't exceptional in other areas..
IMHO, Cleveland a Dallas over invested in the OL, and that prevents other units to be decent. Ben and Russell have had success playing in bad OLs, just to name a few... Regarding my opinion on JT, I'm not the only one thinking that. He is a very competent player in Cleveland, but IMHO that's it. I wouldn't mind if we traded him, but also don't mind if he stays. Not that it will make any difference, it never did.
Last edited by rastanplan; 01/21/16 11:21 AM.
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I've been watching the playoffs, and I don't see the importance of the OL.. This has my vote for the most bizarre comment of the year. The importance of the OL's and DL's has been huge in this year's playoff games. I mean...........nothing sticks out more than that while watching the games. So lets see, shall we. Starting with the Patriots... that's an easy one B&B are the reason of the success. Denver... D is the strength and whats being the key for success.. Arizona- D again and Bruce Arians Panthers - all around good team, playing super D and a difference maker at QB... Which team in the NFL today is winning because of a super OL? Steelers? Cincy? Kansas? Texans ... any ? Now, I agree that a bad OL is a secret for failure although we have seen very bad/depleted OL teams having success (Eagles...) ,but saying OL's are showing themselves in this playoffs, I'm not seeing it. I've been preaching this for years, no team can succeed with an obvious weak point. Opponents will explore it and beat you most of the games. Teams have to be balanced to succeed, and the way the game is played you MUST have impact players. That's true to most if not all sports. Solid all around teams with Impact players that can create mismatches. Usually the team with the best Impact players are the ones that win. IMPACT players make the difference, and to be an impact player you must play in a pro-active position. Now most of the times OL are reactive positions, so the advantage is on the DC. This off course is the rule, and there can be exceptions in OL players. Exceptional mental, game knowledgeable players that make the hole unit and team improve and tip the game. Unfortunately its not the case for us. Cleveland is the prove of the myth. OL doesn't make an average QB elite, it prevents an average QB from looking bad so many times... and I'm not even sure about this one...
2. Carolina Panthers (22nd)
Pass-blocking rank: 4th
Run-blocking rank: 6th
Penalties rank: 7th
Stud: If Trai Turner looked good as a rookie, he looked great in his sophomore year. Well worth Pro Bowl contention (and the spot we awarded him), there are a lot of teams wondering just how he was allowed to get all the way to the 92nd pick of the 2014 draft.
Dud: When something went wrong in the running game, Michael Oher was usually at the center of it. He did a good job in pass protection, but no tackle came close to grading as badly as he did in the running game.
Summary: The tackles are the weak spot of this line, but not so weak where it really matters for them (pass protection). The strength is obviously the interior, where Andrew Norwell (building on a successful rookie year), Turner, and Ryan Kalil are amongst the best at their position. They’re a foundation for success on the line.
17. Arizona Cardinals (24th)
Pass-blocking rank: 28th
Run-blocking rank: 4th
Penalties rank: 8th
Stud: A big reason the team is much improved in the run game is that Mike Iupati came in and didn’t just hit the ground running, he hit everything in his path. He’ll allow some pressure, but he’s a difference-maker in the run game.
Dud: The other guard spot is a big problem, and Ted Larsen can’t realistically be viewed as the long-term answer, with Jonathan Cooper looking like a guy for whom injury might have derailed his career before he ever really got going.
Summary: It’s been a big jump for this unit, chiefly in the run game, where they really give their backs something to work with. Pass protection remains a problem—especially with everyone not named Jared Veldheer—but fortunately they have a quarterback in Carson Palmer who has really hid that weakness. T-20. Denver Broncos (10th)
Pass-blocking rank: 23rd
Run-blocking rank: 21st
Penalties rank: 2nd
Stud: Bringing in Evan Mathis certainly reaped some immediate rewards. His pass blocking was suspect at times, but his ability to create lanes in the running game hasn’t diminished at all.
Dud: Nobody at tackle performed all that great, but first-year starter Michael Schofield had a tough time, especially in the first half of the year (and any time Khalil Mack was opposite him).
Summary: That eight players got more than 100 snaps on the offensive line tells you all you need to know about their struggles with injury and problems finding a combination that worked. A real downgrade on what they’ve produced in years gone by, they lost Ryan Clady before the season, and never really recovered. Okay, Carolina was not an example you wanted to use. Their offensive line is one of the main reasons that they are playing so well. Arizona's o-line is about average but they also happen to have a great defense and Carson Palmer at QB who only needs about a half a second to get the ball out of his hands. Denver's o-line is a little below average mainly because Clady got hurt before the season started and the rest played pretty banged up. They happen to have The best defense in the NFL and Peyton Manning, who got the ball out of his hands a half a second before the center snapped it. So your big theory is that we could get by with an average o-line (5 guys) if we had a defense full of pro bowlers (11 guys) and a hall of fame QB (1 guy that comes around every decade or so). Got ya!  Try not to think too hard my smoke detector keeps going off.
Last edited by DeputyDawg; 01/21/16 11:43 AM.
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NOO, I was actually arguing the opposite point.
Vers was the one implying that OL play was the reason for success on the playoffs, I was just saying I wasn't seeing it.
IMHO, D and aggressive/scoring D is being the key this season
A bad OL is just like a bad DL or a bad secondary, it can only take you that far...
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Vers was the one implying that OL play was the reason for success on the playoffs,
Stop. You said that you had been watching the playoffs and that you did not see the importance of the OL. Go back and look. I refuted that claim by saying that I have watched the playoffs and that the OL and DL had a huge outcome in almost every game.
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I've been watching the playoffs, and I don't see the importance of the OL... Good defenses, good QB play, excellent coaching, that's whats been making the difference.
The big fat guys , IMHO, are wayyyy over rated and Cleveland/Dallas kinds of proves that.
Now we have, according to EO, the best player in the second most important position, and his success is ZERO. Last time we went to the playoffs, JT wasn't here.
Also, just think a bit about that, your are the DC that faces Cleveland, how do you neutralize JT?
In the running game, is not that hard... and in the pass protection you just move your best rusher away from the weak side.
You see, an average/modest LB is enough to counter the best pass protector in the league, you just assume the LT wins....
All and all, IMHO, JT lacks character, he is used to be a loser and he doesn't mind, deep down he prefers fishing to football.
In the end who cares if we trade him, its not that we are going to be worst then we already are/have been with JT and Mack and the superstar OL... I'm not sure that you even know what you are saying.
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VERS Good post.
If any of you guys have been watching the playoffs, you might have noted that the real difference between the teams is in the trenches. This was your initial quote... My post was a reaction to that. I din't came out of the blue stating that OL wasn't important, but was only stating that I didn't notice that OL wast the real difference between teams n this playoffs. Actually you still haven't explain what is so obvious to you, maybe if you do I can see it. I also stated many times that, teams have to be balanced, which implies you must have a good/average OL. Battles haven't been won in the trenches for some decades now...
Last edited by rastanplan; 01/21/16 12:08 PM.
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I'm not sure that you even know what you are saying.
Just what you can read, that in terms of strategy the best pass protecting LT can be rendered useless by an average/bad pass rusher. For argument reasons we could even push it and say a dummy would render your highest paid player and star useless. All it takes is an average smart DC to do it.
Last edited by rastanplan; 01/21/16 12:02 PM.
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I've been watching the playoffs, and I don't see the importance of the OL... Good defenses, good QB play, excellent coaching, that's whats been making the difference.
The big fat guys , IMHO, are wayyyy over rated and Cleveland/Dallas kinds of proves that.
Now we have, according to EO, the best player in the second most important position, and his success is ZERO. Last time we went to the playoffs, JT wasn't here.
Also, just think a bit about that, your are the DC that faces Cleveland, how do you neutralize JT?
In the running game, is not that hard... and in the pass protection you just move your best rusher away from the weak side.
You see, an average/modest LB is enough to counter the best pass protector in the league, you just assume the LT wins....
All and all, IMHO, JT lacks character, he is used to be a loser and he doesn't mind, deep down he prefers fishing to football.
In the end who cares if we trade him, its not that we are going to be worst then we already are/have been with JT and Mack and the superstar OL...
..but you do have the right to be wrong.
I disagree with nearly everything you have posted in this thread...and I'm not going to try to change your mind.
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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How do you render the best left tackle, whose job it is to, block, by putting a worse defender on him? The defense is being more optimal with their resources, but it doesn't render Joe useless. In fact, it does the opposite. By putting an inferior linemen or linebacker on him, it increases the plays Joe Thomas will win at. Being able to count on Joe to win more plays against an inferior defender increases the offense's vitality.
This avoidance strategy is a good one though, but it could backfire against a team like the Browns. Mitchell Schwartz is one of the best right tackles in the NFL, but just getting into the prime of his career. He can already hold his own against some of the better ends in the league consistently and is on track to be just as good against the elite ends. Our line gives us a very solid defense against that strategy. And if Mitchell Schwartz can't handle the defense's best talent then we could just run to Joe's side, away from the defender's best player... Rendering him useless.
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I'm not sure that you even know what you are saying.
Just what you can read, that in terms of strategy the best pass protecting LT can be rendered useless by an average/bad pass rusher. For argument reasons we could even push it and say a dummy would render your highest paid player and star useless. All it takes is an average smart DC to do it. NFL 9× Pro Bowl (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015) 6× First-team All-Pro (2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015) 2× Second-team All-Pro (2008, 2012) Ranked #25 in the Top 100 Players of 2015 Ranked #18 in the Top 100 Players of 2014 Ranked #28 in the Top 100 Players of 2013 Ranked #82 in the Top 100 Players of 2012 Ranked #43 in the Top 100 Players of 2011 Only Offensive Lineman to be selected to 9 consecutive Pro Bowls to start his career College Unanimous All-American (2006) First-team All-Big Ten (2005, 2006) Outland Trophy (2006) Jim Parker Trophy (2006) The guy hasn't missed a snap. The NFL must be really short on dummies because he only gave up 2 sacks this entire season. We just need to find a dummy. I wonder if they check message boards?
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,307 |
You could at least try, it's not like what I've stated cannot be rebated.
For instance, you can argue that we have improved with JT or Mack here, and that he in fact made a difference in our record...actually I would like to see anyone rebate that, since this is kind of, taking EO's words, a fact....
And the claim that a dummy can take out the best protecting LT in the game in passing plays, well if its so obvious that he can't, please state a situation where this isn't possible...
Its the norm to shift the best pass rusher, and if you are not dumb you attack in the weakest point of the defense, not the strongest...
Usually the most difficult things to prove is whats obvious to us. And usually this are also the most important learning situations we can have.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
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~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
You could at least try, it's not like what I've stated cannot be rebated.
Haslam, is that you?
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