DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Joe Thomas selected to PFWA All-NFL Team

JC

Actually the moving of a teams top edge rusher from one side to another holds merit, if the reasoning is to give the offense a different look.

Most right handed QB's are more successful rolling to their right, easier step off. don't have to turn back and easier throwing on the run to right than to left.

As such adding pressure from his right may force him to step up instead of stepping out and afford the defense the a better chance to contain.

But and this is a huge but.... if the sole reason is so your best edge rusher does not get mitigated by the LT and if you are going to keep that edge rusher on the offensive right side then yes it is a bad strategy and a good OC will exploit that.

JMHO

In a way that comment is the basis for Rants comment and my supporting it. O/C's are seeking ways to create match-ups to find the match-up that helps their team the most.

Why is it impossible for a D/C to do the same?

I don't think it is.

The dynamics of line play aren't the same for other positions. I understand you aren't going to put your worst CB on the best receiver. You put your best in that role.


If Joe Thomas' biggest impact on the game is to stonewall the best pass rusher, which he does about 97% of the time, maybe you put your best pass rusher up against someone else, thus, the impact Joe has on the game is lessened.

No doubt that might create other issues, but none the less, that doesn't lessen the logic behind the thought.

Anyway, I didn't intend to get in to a drawn out deal here. And speaking of lunch, it's time for a few wings and a mug or three of suds to wash 'em down. Maybe watch some college hoops...have a great day Dep.

j/c: Kinda

Not sure if some of you have considered this or not, but which hand does almost every qb in the league throw with? Which side is the strong side for the majority of plays w/most NFL teams? Have you ever heard of playing on an island? Has anyone recognized that most elite edge rushers are are lighter, quicker guys? How about the guys who play on the left defensive side? Are most stronger guys or lighter guys? We all know that defensive teams move defenders around, but generally speaking, can anyone think of the reasons why for most of the above moves?

Think about it and I bet you can figure things out. If not, ask me and I'll be glad to elaborate.

And speaking of lunch, it's time for a few wings and a mug or three of suds to wash 'em down. [/quote]

Thanks made my decision easy on where to stop on my way home from work.... Wing Stop it is.....

Like I said a bunch of posts ago, if JT is schooling your guy and he's not getting any sacks, it's fine to flip him to the other side for a few plays, but if you do it very often you just handed my QB all day to throw the football because I'm going to do the things that both I and tab mentioned above.

It's very easy for my QB to see where your guy lines up and call an audible. If you really want to try to create a mismatch, you are much better off trying stunts and blitzes but the "I'll line up my worst guy on JT" plan might work in the PeeWee leagues, but not in the NFL.

In that scenario Joe's impact is not lessened. It just makes his job easier. Just because his job is easier doesn't mean Joe's impact is any less.

One way to look at it I suppose. Unless the guy he would normally be facing is abusing someone else.

Thus the reason I clearly stated it could create other issues.

I guess this is good news.



https://twitter.com/DaveChudowsky/status/691001498248069124



https://twitter.com/DaveChudowsky/status/691001229569298434

Good news.

Man, do you read what you write?

This is what you wrote earlier in this thread:



I showed where this was not the case. I showed where Brady got rid of the ball far quicker than you said, or at least implied with the "had all day to throw" comment.

Then you said:



I showed where that is not the case either.



If you know that what you said was not true/accurate, then why did you say it? That comment makes no sense to me.

Now you want to backtrack on what you said. That has nothing to do with me, that's all on you.

Then you said this:



A QB is not being consistently pressured if he is releasing the ball in 2 seconds or less. (especially if he's playing from the shotgun) Brady consistently got the ball out of his hands in 2 seconds or less. That is extremely frustrating for opposing pass rushers. If the OL even just gets in the pass rusher's way for 1 second, it becomes impossible, physically, for the pass rusher to get to the QB. If the OL only has to hold up for a second or 2, with the QB in the shotgun, then of course there ifs going to be a remarkable pocket. It's just not possible for a defense to collapse the pocket completely in that little time.

Now I did not watch Alex Smith a whole lot during the regular season, so I cannot speak to how he did over the whole course of the season, but I know that Smith looked a whole lot slower, to the naked eye, than Brady did. He appeared to process everything slower, make decisions slower, and throw the ball slower than Brady did.

Then, you say this:



That's a heck of a thing for a Browns fan to hope for. No one disputes that an offensive line is not important. However, whether the OL is the most important thing is the debate. I still say that the QB is far more important that the OL. Look at the Pats, and Tom Brady is at least as responsible for his pass protection as his OL is. He gets the ball out of his hand so quickly that in many instances, if there was no blocking in front of him, he would still get the ball out. The times where Brady had a huge amount of time in that game were when he moved out of the pocket. You can read the comments in the article I posted, that breaks it down by time between snap and pass.

Teams need an solid OL. Whether or not they need a superstar OL, with all high draft picks is the debate. Many great teams have OL made up of players taken later int he draft, or even entering the league as UDFA. However, if a team has a QB who makes slower decisions, and/or who if they run more 7 step drop plays, then they have to have a great OL, or they will get him killed.

We have put all of our efforts into a great OL, and even that is not enough to stop our QB(s) from getting killed. Why? Because we lack talent at receiver, and because our QBs are all slow in their decision making. We probably have the top pair of pass blocking tackles in the NFL, a very god Center, and very good Guards, yet our QBs were sacked 53 times, (and only 1 behind league leader Tennessee, who saw their QBs sacked 54 times) which is 2nd most in the NFL. The QB has a part to play in his own protection.

As far as New England's OL, we all know how quickly Brady gets the ball out, and that is not in dispute. Despite that, he was sacked 38 times. (19th in the league) His OL is not the paragon of protection you make it out to be.

Okay YTown. You win the debate. Don't take the time to learn. Just win the damn debate!

Article on it:

Joe Thomas “definitely” wants to be part of Browns turnaround

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...bcs&ref=yfp

Posted by Josh Alper on January 24, 2016, 8:47 AM EST

CLEVELAND, OH - OCTOBER 3: Tackle Joe Thomas #73 and center Alex Mack #55 of the Cleveland Browns celebrate after defeating the Buffalo Bills during the first half at FirstEnergy Stadium on October 3, 2013 in Cleveland, Ohio. The Browns defeated the Bills 37-24. (Photo by Jason Miller/Getty Images)

Before the Browns hired Hue Jackson as the sixth head coach of his tenure in Cleveland, left tackle Joe Thomas expressed uncertainty about his future with the franchise.

Thomas was nearly traded to the Broncos before the trade deadline, something that he said left him thinking about playing for a different team for the first time in his career. Newly installed vice president of football operations Sashi Brown said last week that he’s spoken to Thomas about what the team plans to do to get on a winning track and that they want Thomas to be a “big piece” of those efforts, something that seems to have resonated with Thomas.

Thomas said Saturday that Jackson’s a “pretty awesome” choice as coach and that he’s not feeling the push to go somewhere else.

“Certainly I love the people in Cleveland,” Thomas said on WKYC, via the Akron Beacon Journal. “It’s my home. I love the city. I love everything about it. So I definitely want to be part of the turnaround.”

Assuming feelings don’t change on either side in the coming months, Thomas will be in his familiar spot on the Cleveland line for the 10th year in a row. We’ll see if Year 10 is the charm for that long-awaited turnaround.

Sounds good, I had little doubt.

Poor Joe. And no, I am not being sarcastic.

He's anything but poor. He has a net worth of 48 million, and is due to make another 25m over the next 3 years(*edit*...make that 29m with roster and workout bonuses). That should ease some of the pain of not making the playoffs.

True.

But still. I applaud the man. If we could seriously turn this around, I couldn't imagine the joy that us fans would feel - but for Joe himself who's lived through it in a more serious fashion than us fans. We see things from the outside and read the gossip, he lives/lived the reality.

Joe Thomas is the best.

I understand Joe will be close to his mid thirties by the end of his contract but does that mean he's done?
Didn't Bruce Matthews play into his late thirties?
I don't see why Joe couldn't go that far into his thirties either.

At least...

j/c:

After yesterday;s games, I'm just wondering if anyone wants to change their opinion on whether or not the OL and front seven of a defense have been important in the playoffs and it is not just about a qb getting rid of the ball quickly?

Keep him as a Brown until he retires. Has he ever expressed interest in coaching? All the respect in the world for JT because of his play, his success with PB's, and his dedication to community.

Who cares about that important stuff here. . I'll betcha a $100 JT wishes he was traded to Denver now.

The money thing is irrelevant. I don't think he cares, but ignoring that, he'd get paid wherever.

I have nothing but respect for the guy. I don't understand how he continues to kick butt on losing teams. He's a better man than I (if I were in that situation).

I'm sorry, but I truly have no idea what you were trying to "teach". You said things that were absolutely wrong, and then tried to turn it into .... well .... frankly, I'm not sure what you were trying to do.

It is OK to just say that you were wrong once in a while. It's not fatal. I've been wrong many times.

No one that I can think of has ever said that the lines are unimportant. The questions asked were; whether or not the OL is the most important unit on a team, whether or not an OL has to have all great players, and if an OL can turn an average team into a great team by itself. (and by extension, whether the right QB can often make a so-so OL look great by virtue of getting the ball out quickly)

I have 1 other example of a QB who has made his very average OL look like a strong unit, and that would be Peyton Manning. He had such a super fast decision making process, and release, that he made some downright poor Colts OL look very good.

One other example would come from closer to home, and that would be the 2007 season, right here in NE Ohio. Charlie Frye started the season at QB for the Browns, and was sacked 5 times in less than 1 half of football. DA came in, got the ball out much, much faster, (despite being far slower afoot than Frye was) and over the rest of the season, was only sacked 14 times in total. Frye was sacked 5 times in 15 times drop backs ...... and DA was sacked only 14 times in 541. The OL did not change, rather the QB did. We went from a guy who was unable to process things quickly, and despite being able to run, made his OL look horrible ... to a guy who was nt able to run at all, but who made quick decisions, and got the ball out very quickly, both in terms of time from snap to throw, and his far quicker release.

Yes, the right QB makes an OL lok better than they are. The Pats have a poor OL. They have been hard hit with injury. However, Tom Brady was able to disguise their weaknesses by, well, by being Tom Brady.

I really struggle to think of an average QB, in the modern game, who was made into a top level QB by his OL, no matter how good a unit they were. Can you think of any?

I used him as an example precisely because of the OL he played behind in his career.

In 2006, the Colts won the Super Bowl. Manning was sacked 14 times on the year. In 2009, the Colts returned to the Super Bowl, and the Colts OL allowed only 10 sacks of Peyton on the season.

His 2009 OL was nowhere near as good as his 2006 OL, but Manning still performed at a super High level, and he was actually sacked fewer times in 2009 than 2006.

That is what I mean by the QB making the OL better.

You are amazing.

Thank you, but I still have no idea what "lesson" you were trying to "teach", by presenting things as fact, that were proved to be completely wrong...... and then say that you just did it for ........ some reason .... and you knew all along that what you argued was wrong. Sorry, but I truly do not understand that. I have agreed with you at times, and disagreed with you at times, but this argument of yours I really do not understand at all. It makes zero sense to me. (and I'm probably not the only one, if people go back and read the whole thing)

You won. Now go away.

He's not going away, nor do I want him to go away. YTBF is a big part of this board.


So are you.

I didn't mean literally. I just don't want to discuss it w/him any further because he really wants to win some stupid debate rather than learning.

I tried. I explained how release times can become skewed, but he ignores all of that and isolates quotes to win some stupid debate. So........he wins. I loses. He's great. I'm done.

Add to that list 6)Poor game plan--Vanilla,&)no audible-just run the play called,DC turned HC -they don't want O to outshine their lackluster soft D and finally a FO/GM that does not realize that for a D to be dominating it has to be aggressive attacking every play and most importantly this is not going to happen unless you have the O first and give the O parts it needs to be successful and replacement parts as needed,O job to score points(TDs),D not to be on field no more than 6 plays in sucession prevent opponent from scoring,drain time clock and give up major yardage for 1stdowns. My big question to the D people is "why is our D tired but not the opponent's O when Opponent's O is on field same length of time?".

This is where this started:

You said:



I like the insult, couched in a "not to insult you" phrase. That's a nice touch. You then reinforced with an incorrect statement, one that was proved to be incorrect. You said exactly what I quoted, and anyone can go back and look for themselves.

I said that Brady did not hold the ball "all day", and then went about proving it. I showed where independent reports had him throwing the ball faster than any other QB over the course of the season, and how he got the ball out ridiculously fast in the playoff game. You then went off on this tangent of knowing that what you said wasn't the case, but somehow my not blindly accepting what you said as truth (when it was, in fact.demonstrably, false) was somehow me not wanting to learn. No, I don't want to "learn" things that are patently incorrect. I freely admit that you "got me" there.

What you really taught me is that you feel that any statement of fact you make should go unchallenged, even if it's absolutely false. That's a real shame, to act that closed minded.

Oh my goodness............you are still at it.