DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft The 2016 Quarterback class

I think Deputy has a great understanding of the game and I think it might be wise for some of you to actually listen to what he has to say rather than trying to make him look bad.

His facts are incorrect. That does not help him make his case.

LOL..........I wonder why?

So, I'm not the only one then?

The Bear Raid offense is not a spread?

No. It's part of the air raid offense. Sonny Dykes is a direct descendant of Hal Mumme and Mike Leach, serving under them for most of his career. He used to be a cooffensive coordinator with Dana too. Cal does not run a spread offense. They run a variation of the air raid, which is an off shoot of the run and shoot. Nothing spread about it.

Overview[edit]
The spread offense is specifically designed to open up seams and holes for the offense, and does not specifically focus on the passing or running game, however, like all types of offenses, there can be sub types which can specifically focus on the passing or running game, or even option, fakes or trick plays.[6]

Philosophical differences[edit]
The basic pre-snap appearance of the spread offense is constant—multiple receivers on the field and a shotgun snap. However, the actual execution from those formations varies, depending on the preferences of the coaching staff. While most of these are balanced offenses, such as the one utilized by Larry Fedora's North Carolina Tar Heels, several sub-forms also exist.

Air Raid[edit]
One of the extreme versions is the pass-oriented Air Raid typified by Hal Mumme in the late 1990s at the University of Kentucky. Coaches that employ this version of the spread are Mike Gundy's Oklahoma State Cowboys, Dana Holgorsen's West Virginia Mountaineers, Mark Stoops's Kentucky Wildcats, Mike Leach's Washington State Cougars, Kliff Kingsbury's Texas Tech Red Raiders, Bob Stoops's Oklahoma Sooners and Kevin Sumlin's Texas A&M Aggies. This version employs multiple spread sets and is heavily reliant on the quarterback and coaches being able to call the appropriate play at the line of scrimmage based on how the defense sets up. California Golden Bears head coach Sonny Dykes, who coached under Mike Leach at Texas Tech, uses a variant of the Air Raid that makes more use of the running game and tight ends and running backs in the passing game. The Run & Shoot associated with June Jones is a well-known variant[citation needed].

Spread option[edit]
The spread option is a shotgun-based variant of the classic triple option attack that was prevalent in football well into the 1990s. Notable users of this offense include Rich Rodriguez's Arizona Wildcats, Urban Meyer's Ohio State Buckeyes, Mark Helfrich's Oregon Ducks, Hugh Freeze's Ole Miss Rebels, and Dan Mullen's Mississippi State Bulldogs. Despite the multi-receiver sets, the spread option is a run-first scheme that requires a quarterback that is comfortable carrying the ball, a mobile offensive line that can effectively pull and trap, and receivers that can hold their blocks. Its essence is misdirection. Because it operates from the shotgun, its triple option usually consists of a slot receiver, a tailback, and a dual-threat quarterback. One of the primary plays in the spread option is the zone read, invented and made popular by Rich Rodriguez. The quarterback must be able to read the defensive end and determine whether he is collapsing down the line or playing up-field containment in order to determine the proper play to make with the ball. A key component of the spread option is that the running threat posed by the quarterback forces a defensive lineman or linebacker to "freeze" in order to plug the running lane; this has the effect of blocking the target player without needing to put a body on him.

The Pistol[edit]
A third version of the spread offense is the Pistol offense used by Brian Polian's Nevada Wolf Pack, Dabo Swinney's Clemson Tigers and some high schools across the nation. Developed by Chris Ault, the Pistol focuses on using the run with many offensive players, and it calls for the quarterback to line up about three yards behind the center and take a short shotgun snap at the start of each play. Instead of lining up next to the quarterback like in the normal shotgun, the tailback lines up behind the quarterback at normal depth. This enables him to take a handoff while running toward the line of scrimmage, rather than parallel to it as is the case from the standard shotgun. Since Ault installed the Pistol in 2004, his Wolf Pack has been among of the NCAA's most productive offenses. In 2009, they led the country in rushing and total offense, and were also the first team in college football history to have three players rush for 1,000 yards in the same season.

Tony Franklin (born August 29, 1957) is an American college football coach, currently serving as the offensive coordinator for the Middle Tennessee Blue Raiders of Conference USA after making a lateral move from the same position with the California Golden Bears.[1]
Franklin was previously the quarterbacks coach and offensive coordinator of the Auburn University football team, before being fired from that position on October 8, 2008.[2] Franklin is known for his expertise in the spread offense and for developing quarterbacks. Under his guidance, quarterbacks Tim Couch, Dusty Bonner, and Jared Lorenzen each led the SEC in passing, with Couch becoming the first player selected in the 1999 NFL Draft.
While a running back in college at Murray State in 1977, Franklin was a teammate of fellow future coach Bud Foster, who later came to prominence as the Virginia Tech defensive coordinator.

http://www.foxsports.com/college-footbal...rterback-050715

Here's some analytics. The article is pretty long, but a good read. I posted only part of it below.

Methodology

Since we know the NFL is ever evolving, and is becoming more of a passing league even in the last 5 years than it was the 5 years prior, I limited this exercise only to NFL QBs drafted since 2000. I also limited it only to NFL QBs who started over 10 games. There was no desire to look at the total failures, such as 2nd rd picks Brian Brohm, John Beck, Marques Tuiasosopo etc. While a secondary analysis could be run on those players, I set my cut-off at over 10 starts.

snip

Cool "Analytics" article. Although I really have to wonder if they know what they're talking about. The methodology already starts very, very questionable.


I'd like to wonder why they cut it off at 10 games? That doesn't seem like it should matter. I understand not wanting to include the stats of random QB's who had to sub in due to injury, but a 10 game minimum certainly makes the trend go upwards towards sitting them. This methodology might have an inherent bias as well. Mainly in regards to 2nd and 1st round QB picks who didn't pan out before 10 games starts. QB's who were drafted in the first 2 rounds should be be equally or more successful than QB's who were drafted 1st, but started right away. Theoretically they would have around the same potential to flourish, but would have the added benefit of being groomed behind a starter. Thus, according to their theory that sitting benefits a QB more than starting them, these QB's, who they discarded, should have a greater chance at succeeding in the NFL. It seems weird that these players are not included, nor do we hear about them more.

I think this is kinda bunk math, no offense.

I understand not wanting to include the stats of random QB's who had to sub in due to injury, but a 10 game minimum certainly makes the trend go upwards towards sitting them.

I'll start off by apologizing. I underestimated your knowledge. I thought you were trying to imply the air raid was a "zone-read spread hurr durr thing", a common misconception on here. My bad, man.

However, if you want to include him as a "spread" QB, by which accounts, he is, then I'd suggest you relook at all the college QB's who came from similar systems. Very few college teams have been running a traditional pro style offenses for the past 2 decades. Categorizing Goff as a spread QB would also lasso in half of the starting QB's in the NFL. Do you see why I thought you meant "zone read" spread now? I'm sorry, man.

Yes, I actually say that.


I think this is trying to set a model instead of trying to answer the question. There's a lot of inherent bias in their study.

I agree, there are a ton more spread QB's now then there used to be. I think that should lead to a trend of sitting QB's more, but the pressure to start a high pick is still there. I also think that we might start to see more spread offenses in the NFL eventually to get these guys on the field. I'm not sure how well that is going to work though.

If anything, it would bias it to the guys that start early. If they started poorly and were pulled before the 5th week, they wouldn't count towards the numbers.

There was no desire to look at the total failures, such as 2nd rd picks Brian Brohm, John Beck, Marques Tuiasosopo etc.

If coaches were left alone, I would bet that more QB's sat their first year like you see in College and High School, but fans pressure owners and owners pressure coaches.

I disagree, but this disagreement shows why they should include it. I still don't know why they didn't... Except to toss out some 2nd rounders who didn't fit their model.

Or the teams drafting QBs high have crappy QBs on the roster and they play the best player.

If he already has them, then put him out there, but don't screw up his career because he is less crappy than what you have.

The article doesn't look at the spread system vs pro style.

The reason you sit a QB is to let him learn how to play under center, learn 3, 5, and 7 step drops, learn the NFL routes that the WR's are running, learn read progressions, etc...

All these things require massive amounts of reps to learn if they can't do it right away. When your QB is getting pounded, he'll go back to bad habits and you'll have to start over again. If you can get it to be instict before he goes on the field, he's less likely to revert.

If coaches were left alone, I would bet that more QB's sat their first year like you see in College and High School, but fans pressure owners and owners pressure coaches.

If coaches were left alone, I would bet that more QB's sat their first year like you see in College and High School, but fans pressure owners and owners pressure coaches.

Yes. This is the answer.

If he is ready, start him. Don't just sit him to sit him.

How long does it take to get ready? Why do players need a full season? All these prospects have "pro" (style?) QB coaches getting them ready for the draft. They don't have to worry about school anymore and can focus on football as much as they are willing. I like that Goff and Wentz are reportedly football junkies. Both are also supposedly bright in the classroom. I think they have the best chance of being ready early. They'll definitely have a lot of work to put in, though.

There are a lot of QB's who start right away in college...

For example:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jared-goff-1.html

Not to knock Goff, he does impress me as a smart QB, but starting right away in a spread offense is a whole lot different than starting right away in a pro-style offense.

I am sure there are some QB's that start as true freshman, but I'm also sure that there are more that don't.

I agree that most QBs don't start as true freshmen.

Just pointing out that Goff did and it didn't kill him. He then became very successful.

In an offense that doesn't ask very much from him.

As a freshmen? No.

He did more as the seasons went on though.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...erback-prospect

At the core of the offense are nine passing concepts, five or six screen concepts and five or six running concepts.

During our conversation, Franklin says that if I were his starting quarterback, I could learn the offense tomorrow.

For the first time in his career, Goff can change anything and everything he wants at the line of scrimmage. From routes to the protection scheme, he can call whatever he wants.

"I trust him with my job," Franklin says. "When you're letting a guy do that, then you're putting it all in his hands."

Yes, and I get that they add extra reads to those core plays, but that is still miles away from Pro concepts.

So are most of the "pro" offenses that college teams run.

The point is that Goff is going to be in film room until he knows what to do. And then after that he will still be in the film room to master what he knows.

"Spread" QBs have been succeeding in the NFL for years.

Just multiply the plays by about 100 and complicate the reads by a factor of 5 and you'll go from this system to a pro system.

Again I'm not faulting Goff he thrived in the system that he was in. But reading that doesn't make me think he is more capable of starting right away, it just makes me worry more.