DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh Gordon files application for reinstatement from league suspension

Keep banging that drum...

I will until the hypocrisy subsides.

It only lives in your head man.

Again...........you saying it doesn't make it so.

The tone of the two threads are completely different, even though Gordon's sins are much worse than JM's.

That is your opinion, and you saying it doesnt make it so.

I realize that. Do you realize the same can be said of yours?

And there is the difference. One appears to have turned the corner, they other keeps digging the hole deeper.

NOTE: APPEARS. Doesn't mean he has really, just appears so.

When Manziel becomes an all-pro, pro bowl QB, let me know.

Gordon's problem is he can't stay away from weed.

Manziel likes to play "where in the world is Carmen sandiego" while drunk. The problems Gordon brought can't even compare to the circus fest that Manziel has brought to this team.

So IMO, who's sins are worse is absolutely debatable.

I get that, and if you look back I have never once stood up for JG. I guess I was hoping to get you to stop bringing that same tired JM talk to every thread.

Again, I will stop when people blow rumors out of proportion and act like they are fact about one guy while they ignore actual facts on another guy.

so you will continue to derail and hijack threads until more people see it your way? Sounds reasonable...

and? Who cares?

Does it really matter if someone is wanting Gordon to succeed while not caring at all about what happens with Manziel?

I'm pretty certain that it doesn't matter one bit. In fact, I'd even say it makes perfect sense. Also, it could easily be argued that the magnitude of the sins is - at most - no different. They both, time after time, have done things that betrayed the trust of coaches & teammates that resulted in them not being there - untrustworthy and unreliable.

The difference here is in maturity and actions. One of those players is showing that he's ready to leave all that immaturity behind and do what he needs to in order to not waste his last potential chance. The other still revels in pulling stunts to garner attention. One of those two is a proven stud player that can easily be the best in the league at his position, while the other struggles to string together 3 games in a row and can't handle success - as soon as things start going well for him, he gets the itch for the limelight.


So, you can whine and cry and kick all you want about how "unfair" you think it is, and you can rant on about how much you perceive hypocrisy at every turn..... but, in reality, there's no hypocrisy or unfairness at work here, at all. One guy is proven in this league and has been earning his way back to possibly having one last chance in this league, one guy isn't. Period.


You want to talk hypocrisy? Ok.

After how many incidents did you start calling for Gordon to be cut? Why are you not calling for Manziel to be cut after the same number of incidents?



Where's Diam's crying baby .gif?

Why didn't you just take a selfie while you were typing that masterpiece?



Oh...........I'm kidding; please don't suspend me again.

And here is the actual meat of the "argument". Yes Gordon can be a truly special player, but his nonsense hasn't set back the team anywhere near as Manziel's has.

Could you please elaborate?

What makes JM's transgressions worse then Gordon's is that he was handed the starters role and effed it up. An NFL QB has certain standards (work ethic, commitment, leadership, etc.) that other guys don't necessarily have to follow.
It's just the way of an NFL quarterback.

This pretty much sums it up Vers.

Actually Vers, that was a clever response,, from a 2 year old

+1, name another QB not named Leaf, Russell, or Manziel who has been successful while being in the news like Manziel....NONE. He doesn't have the maturity to be a starting NFL QB. Get something for him, he's under contract...or keep him as 3rd stringer....JMHO, not worth the effort, he'd be to BIG a headache.

Gordon has been an idiot who's paid dearly for it. IF he stayed clean for a year and get reinstated he has chance to make millions, average person would take that opportunity...hope he's average.

Bottomline, get rid of Manziel....keep Gordon until he's a headache.......GO Browns!!!!

GMAFB


Missing more than half his carrier due to suspensions while leaving the Brown's with the smallest WR crew in the NFL didn't set us back? Whatever...

At least Manziel was able to play if called upon. Plus he won more games than McCown did.

If he decided to show up that day.

Sober.

Is it reading comprehension? Or are you so insecure with your agenda you have to make things up?

I never said Gordon hadn't set this franchise back. My assertion is that Manziel and his antics have set it back MORE than Gordon has.

Gordon is more easily replaced. Just because Farmer didn't replace him, it doesn't change that fact.

Don't forget, apparently we are missing out on a Super Bowl caliber QB with less maturity than an 8yr old child...

Just clicking.

You can tell it is the Cleveland offseason when there is a 5-page thread on who is the worse offender, Gordon or Manziel.

In my mind. they are both are self-absorbed idiots who just can't toe whatever line they were told to toe. I say self-absorbed because they both have done things that were detrimental to the team. Multiple times. They are more concerned with doing what they want to do, and not so much what the team needs them to do.

Sure, as far as we know, Gordon has done whatever he needed to do in order to be allowed to ask for reinstatement. BFD. I believe he has done this in the past, staying straight during a suspension. Then, when back on the team, back to the old Josh. Can he change? Sure. I will believe it when I see it. And not for a week or two, but for the duration. And, if I hear that he strayed during this past year, I will not be surprised in the least. That is his track record.

I do not know this for a fact, but I think that JFF was given some behavior constraints by the team (front office, coach, whatever) and he kept ignoring them. He broke no laws, and did not get into hot water by the league, like Gordon did. But I fully believe he was told to use his down time wisely, preparing and working out and to not party. And I fully believe he agreed to it, but did his own thing anyway. If I am mistaken, then I am mistaken.

We have time and money invested in both of them, and it would be great that if either were to be productive then they do it here. If either becomes productive, it will seem like a bonus as I do not hold much hope for either one. I think Gordon has the talent to be a better player than JFF but I also think him doing so long-term is less likely than JFF doing so.

I do not care who is a "worse" offender. I have no expectations of either one getting their career on track, not without a major epiphany.

CapCity, it is the same place for me.This is debate? Who set the bar lowest? Orwho hurt us worst? And the winner gets what exactly? Both broke trust and failed attempts to help them out. I love the Browns, but some things are bigger than football IMO. Being gifted at it, filled with gridiron ability, does not give you a pass on big issues of life, trust, team, and winning off the field. Faith, family, football.

Show me. The lesson here seems to be "Don't get caught." If you do, lie or manipulate, deny, voice regret, whatever is necessary to thumb your nose at all discipline and continue to do what you want your way without consequences, feeling all along that as a talent, another chance is your right and you are owed that.

What a load.

There's the difference, right there. One guy has screwed up enough by violating both NFL rules as well as State and Federal laws, in multiple instances, across several years, that he's been not only arrested for his infractions but has also been suspended indefinitely from the NFL, finding himself fighting back to possibly having one last chance in this league.

The other guy hasn't and isn't.

The other guy has not broken any serious NFL rules nor any State or Federal laws. He has never been suspended by the NFL or arrested by the legal authorities, nor is he fighting an uphill battle of having "one last chance in this league". His biggest violation, as eotab put it, was having fun.

The one thing that does set them apart is the one guy has proved himself on the field. The other guy hasn't.

But to stick up for Gordon while crucifying Manziel smacks of selfishness in the worst way. Gordon is forgiven because he's proven what he can do for the team on the field. Manziel is persecuted through a witch-hunt justified by what-have-you-done-for-me?

Gordon had a starter's role as well, he effed it up. An NFL WR has certain standards, (work ethic, commitment, leadership, etc.) It's just the way of an NFL WR.

Note, I passed over the remark that other guys don't necessarily have to follow those standards. Everybody has to follow those standards.

People are willing to forgive Gordon because Gordon has been walking-the-walk for over a year since his suspension, paying for his sins, and getting his act together so that he can put himself into a position where he can hopefully have earned his one last shot at this.

Manziel has, thus far, chosen to do nothing of the sort.

You added a qualifier in there that didn't exist just so many years ago, "while being in the news".

There have been plenty of QB's who have done the same things Manziel has done, went out and had fun, but were not in the news because the news was not as immediate nor wide reaching as it is now. Plus, none of the other QB's were named Johnny Football coming into the league with a 'larger than life' image from day one. In this day and age that's newsworthy. Because of that everything he does is magnified out of proportion.

It's a different world now.

Manziel, thus far, has done nothing to cause him to have to spend a year paying for his sins. In his two years in the NFL Manziel has done not one thing as egregious as any of the various "sins" Gordon committed many times over across his entire NFL career.

I have no problem being on Josh's side insofar as wishing him well and hoping he can stick with the team. It's common human empathy to have for a guy who really, really, really screwed up his life and his career.

At the same time I have no problem being on Johnny's side insofar as wishing him well and hoping he an stick with the team. It's common human empathy to have for a guy who has the whole world coming down on him considering how infinitesimally small his sins are, especially when compared to the sins of the guy for whom everybody is willing to stand up for and defend.

It doesn't change right from wrong. It only changes the way it's presented.

It's offset by the fact that he took his first year off, didn't work hard, didn't study, didn't prepare... Simple fact is, if he had looked better ON the field, he would have had a longer leash OFF the field... but there were rumors, which turned out to be true, because once he got his shot, he clearly wasn't prepared..

After that, everything became even more magnified... then he went into rehab (or whatever it was).. again, put an even bigger target on his back when people saw him out partying. Twice, most of the fan base and the media came around to thinking he was looking better on the field and off the field.. twice he ended up in the news for all of the wrong reasons.

Cam Newton was in a Charlotte club the night they won the NFC championship game, several teammates were with him, one teammate bought the whole bar a shot.. did anybody care? Heck no. Why? Because Cam Newton is freaking good and just took his team to the Super Bowl...

Had Manziel come into the league and spent his first 2-3 years out of sight, working his butt off, and become a pretty good QB, then started being more out and about socially.. nobody would have cared. But he rode into Cleveland on the party bus and never got off of it for the first 2+ years...

I know this wasn't directed towards me, but I'll give it a try. Now if you wish to break it down as to the individuals, I agree with you. On an individual basis, they have both been bad representatives to the team and have made multiple mistakes. But that's where it ends.

Firstly, JFF is the QB. The QB is the leader of your team. He is expected to be the face of your franchise and has to learn every position of your O. He has to know what everyone elses duties and responsibilities are on every play. He has far more expectations and responsibilities than any other single player on your team.

A WR is one part of a unit. He is one of at least four or five guys in a unit. He has to learn his position and his responsibilities as a single player. You need only look at teams like Seattle to see that a single WR doesn't impact your team like one WR does.

So to me, if you look at it as one single player verses another single player, I do understand your point. But when looking at it big picture, there's a world of difference discussing your #1 QB position verses your #1 WR position.

I see that as complete BS! How do you know? Do you hang out w/the two guys?

Has JM been suspended for drugs? Alcohol? Has he had a DUI? What is it that he has really done? Gone to Vegas? Missed some team things? Bought liquor at a store? How do you know that Gordon has not done the same things? Do you REALLY think that other players have to worry about buying a bottle of booze? Do other players have to worry about going to Vegas? Shoot.........Michael Jordan used to go to Vegas during the season all the time. Guess the Bulls should have cut him.

You are too obvious. You stated things in the past like "Gordon is the best WR in the league." LOL.......one year and he is the best?????????? You proclaimed JM a bust at the beginning of his rookie season. And then you huff and puff because not everyone buys into the hypocrisy?

Get real!

Numerous suspensions, a DUI, pot in his car, hanging w/known criminals vs What? Legal drinking? Get real!

When you went to rehab, it may be legal, but it sends a clear signal you don't care about your problem and that the party is more important than your team.

If you look at it, JFF chose to waste his first season. He may as well not have even been here.

Like I said, on a personal level, I do understand and agree with your point.

But the fact is, far more is expected from your future starting QB than a WR. You must know that's true.

JFF couldn't survive a witch hunt. Want to note a huge difference for me: Gordon has passed a number of drug tests, random ones. Not sure if JM needs to, but you can be somewhat sure of Gordon because he has proof (until the next screwup.

Got no defense for either of them. Just a lot of anger and disappointment with what they cost us, what they wasted. Playing the game is still a privilege in my eyes; just sad that they punk this up and we all wear the black eye. Trust you until I don't. Think I am there. Might give Gordon a chance.

Gordon went to rehab, too. You wanna know the difference, Pit? JM stuck it out and JG left quickly. Now you tell me who is more sincere.

It doesn't appear to me that either one was sincere. JFF put on a better show though.