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Have you ever once considered that perhaps Haslam is a dope?

Haslam bashing is the new "We should have drafted Teddy."

Kinda of...if you did, then you admit whatever Haslam does will fail. He ran a successful business. I have an ounce of hope. If I didn't, I wouldn't waste my team watching the idiot build a team. I am counting on something working.

Winning is the cure for a bunch. Our own BBackers is struggling too. The "survivors" have a stubborn sense of duty rather than the delight of the Old Browns. Our numbers for public service are off somewhat. We are ready to start the winning thang any season now.

I am ready to be competitive without a doubt. Won't win them all, but crazy how we lose and how fundamentally stupid our game has been. Want to love them more, but they are like an ugly baby. This is encouraging. Thanks for the post.

Did they buy you a hot dog or a ham sammich?

Might be complaining because we landed a skill set they wanted. Why the rush to see who can find and share more negative stuff? Browns and Haslam have had dumb moves. This feels better so far. I guess without JFF material, the "non article" comes to this. We need to make some good moves that don't invite all the media second guessing and ridicule. Win. Command respect.

Every business decision is ultimately accountable to the owner or the stockholders, no matter who you put in charge, be it football operations.. Stadium or Marketing.. there has to be someone to sign the checks.

A business owner does not hand out checks without having the final say in what is happening. That is the nature of the beast. Do you think the Rooney's do not have a say in anything.. if the GM wanted to get rid of Rothlisberger, do you think the Rooney's would say.. You are the football people, I will do anything you want ?? The owner always has the final say.

The final say over the 53 is mostly about the bottom of the roster. I doubt seriously if the second pick of the draft will be # 200 on Kiper's big board because he happens to be from Harvard and is Sashi's former roommate's nephew. I do have faith that the football people will be the decision makers in who will be drafted. Sashi will be there to break ties if there is a conflict and all will be responsible to Haslam if the dung hits the fan.

Good call. I always knew you were smart.

Oh For cryin out loud (something you do a lot)

Who are the bad hires? Tell US who you would have hired.

Do that instead of constantly complaining and calling people names..

Just how long did Art Rooney play the Part of Lucy in Pittsburgh before they won a super bowl?

Not sure what your point is? Are you comparing Rooney to Haslam?

I don't know the answers to these questions, but was Rooney ever investigated by the FBI for fraud and forced to pay $92 million and another $56 million to customers who he ripped off? Did Rooney ever fire as many coaches, GMs, presidents, etc in his entire career as Haslam has done in just a few years?

Art Rooney isn't the crook and liar that Haslam is.

Wait a minute guys.. in regards to Memphis's article that he posted, I'm surprised none of you picked up on something that jumped out to me:

There are actually people pissed off that the Browns DIDN'T hire them?

Didn't Art Rooney accept the Ambassadorship to Ireland from Pres Obama? I guess the answer to your last question depends on your politics?

1930s:

After founding the Pirates in 1933, Art Rooney watched his club struggle through its first seven seasons with just 22 wins and five different head coaches.

In his first 36 years as the Steelers owner he went through 16 head Coaching changes.


How about Rooneys long time gambling ties?

http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/steel...es/200807100256

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/art-sr-rooney

So yes Rooney fired as many Coaches. He had some skeletons in his closet, and I'm not bashing him for it just like I'm not Bashing Jimmy.

So my point is why are you Bashing Jimmy when you don't Bash the Rooneys?

Sorry brother........but those things do not compare.

I wasn't asking you to bash Haslam. It's up to you if you trust him to hold the ball or not for you, Chuck.

I feel that the Head Coach.. who reports to Haslam.. the coaching staff.. and the scouts are the football people. We will see how the draft and Free Agency goes, but I do not expect there to be problems. I know.. there could be.. but then Farmer was a football person.. considered an up and coming GM candidate... as well as a former player and his drafts/FA acquisitions weren't exactly on the money.

Teddy would have become Colt McCoy here, (and he's basically Christian Ponder with a far better team in Minnesota right now) and we'd still be talking about drafting a new QB this year. He is in exactly the right spot for him, with a top 5 ranked scoring defense, and a top 5 run game.

Here he would have had a miserable run game, and an awful defense, and we would have probably still won 3 games this past year with him under Center.

Do not compare OK Teacher I hear ya

You have proven to be the worst QB evaluater in the long, storied history of the boards, even besting DJ for that dubious title. Seriously, I think the Browns should hire you to watch tape on collegiate qbs, so they can draft the guy you think is the worst.

It's almost uncanny how bad you are at judging QBs.

You used to be a really good poster. Now, you are just like the others who need to make fun of anyone who doesn't agree w/you and the majority.

You clearly need a lesson in history,

Rooney wasn't always the gentle old father figure you probably remember. He had some ties to the pittsburgh underworld (gambling). Not sure how deep those ties were, but my Dad, a life long Steelers fan, would always laugh when Rooney came up in conversation because the truth was far from the rumor. He always told us that Rooney was dirty as can be to get his fortune started.

He was also an owner that made one mistake after another while trying to find a way to get the Steelers to win.

He finally stumbled across a method, hired Chuck Noll, Who was drafted by Paul Brown in 1953 and played for the Browns until he retired in 1959. That's where he got his foundation on how an NFL Franchise was to be run.

How many years did the Steelers lose before they won. Something like 39 years.(1933 to 1972)

They've literally had one family own them since 1933. We've had 5 owners and 4 families own the Browns.

Now we got people on here angry with Haslam (You included) but not because of FACTS (cause you got NONE) but because he's just the latest guy to own the Browns and they haven't won.

You say he ripped off his clients, but he's paid every cent out to cover those clients. So even if he's guilty of wrong doing (and you can't prove he is) he made it right.

I don't want to be like you and tell people what to think or believe, so I'll leave it at, you are WRONG.

Followed by



It looks like we are all alike bro

Like most people, I have had some hits, and some misses.

I'm not a professional, so that's to be expected.

I was spectacularly wrong on RG3. I wanted DA over Frye, and said that Frye made his OL look awful, so I count that as a positive mark for me, because when we saw DA play, we saw the line hardly ever give up a sack, after being blamed for the 50 or s against Frye the year before. I thought that McCoy was horrible. I wanted Weeden only because of the level of stench in McCoy's game. I didn't want Quinn with our top pick in the 2007 draft, but I was fine with taking a chance on him when we did. I really wasn't a fan of Manziel, but I figured, again, that he was worth a shot, as a huge boom or bust candidate. I was cautious about Hoyer. (and I think that caution has proved to be correct)

So, I have had some hits, and some misses .... like most people who are honest have. I thank you for the insult though.

You just said that Teddy was basically Ponder. The Vikings cut Ponder and named Teddy their qb. How smart was that comment? You loved Weeden. You thought Timid was far superior to Holcomb, when I know for a fact that almost every single player preferred KH. You still deny that taking JM over Teddy wasn't a mistake. You thought Weeden was way, way better than McCoy. You supported BQ over DA.

You have been awful at evaluating qbs.

I know that you love Bridgewater, but if you look at his performance thus far, he is a below average QB. He has a top 5 defense, and a top 5 rushing attack, and he is a so-so QB. He is a good QB in throwing behind the LOS, to maybe 7-8 yards, but beyond that he is rather poor. He is 22nd in passing yardage among NFL starters, and there is not a single QB ranked below him who started all 16 games. He also threw fewer TD passes than any other QB who started 16 games. He threw 14 TD passes in 16 games. For comparison, McCown threw 12 TD passes in only 8 games for the Browns last year. Bridgewater was 35th in QB rating.

I do give Bridgewater credit for being a very durable kid, and it seems like he has solid leadership skills. That is his strongest trait thus far. It is possible that he will develop into a QB that a team can build around, but to say that he is anywhere near that level right now is ridiculous. He is a game manager, at best. Put him on our team, and we still win 3 games ..... maybe. He is in the right place, with the right team, to succeed. He does not have to win games for the Vikings. In fact, look at the game that clinched the division for the Vikings, against the Packers. In that game, Bridgewater went 10-19 for 99 yards, and threw a particularly ugly, left handed INT. Imagine if he had done that in Cleveland in what was, arguably, the most important game of the year.

In fairness, he doesn't often make that huge mistake, but he also doesn't often make big plays for his team. His best game came against a awfuk Chicago defense, and while he did throw 4 TD and 9 INT in that game, Chicago is near the bottom of the league against the pass. (he played them twice, and they allowed as many TD passes as we did last season) His signature win last year came against the Bears. Without that game, he would have thrown 10 TD and 12 INT. His performance in the playoff game against the Seahawks was uninspiring, but they faced awful elements in that game. However, that is what he would have faced in winters in Cleveland.

I know that you like the game manager type QB. You value a guy who makes few mistakes over a guy who makes big plays. I prefer the reverse. Now I don't want a guy who is throwing the ball to the other team all the time, but I would rather have a guy like DA, who threw 29 TD and 19 INT, than a guy like Colt McCoy, who threw 14 TD and 11 INT in Cleveland in 2011. I want a QB who can take the top off a defense, especially on a team that lacks in so many areas.

Look, I am not saying that Bridgewater is not going to become a good QB. I do question whether or not he will ever become a great QB. I think that Bridgewater has a lot going on upstairs. I do like parts of his game. I question whether or not he has that killer instinct that the great QBs have. I question whether or not he can be the reason his team wins big games. I use the Ponder comparison, because in many ways, it is valid. You hate stats, but man, that's in large part how we judge success at individual positions. Bridgewater has been a winning QB. However, is he the reason the Vikings win, or is it their defense and Hall of Fame rushing attack? I think that it's the latter, rather than the former. Bridgewater is OK. He is Ponder. Why do I say that? Because, look at his performance.

In 2012, the Vikings went 10-6. They did so on the strength of Adrian Peterson, and their defense. In that 2012 season, Ponder completed 62% of his passes, for 18 TD and 12 INT, and averaged 183 yards/game. That was Ponder's 2nd season. Compare that to this, Bridgewater's 2nd season. The parallels are remarkable. Did Ponder take his team to 10 wins, or did he go along for the ride? I don't think that he was the driving force behind their wins. I don't believe Bridgewater is either. He is Christian Ponder at this point. We'll see if he progresses next year, but thus far he is a below average NFL QB on a great team.

I don't believe that you were on this board when we drafted Weeden. I was happy, because it meant no more watching Colt McCoy stinking for 3+ quarters, only to tear up prevent zones at the very end of lost games. (and I don't believe you were even on this board during that time, so it's no wonder you mis-characterize my thoughts on that particular dynamic. I never supported Quinn over Anderson. You are completely mistaken in that regard. I took a ton of abuse for supporting Anderson over Quinn. As far as Couch/Holcomb, neither guy did squat in their careers, so what difference does that make?

If this is your evidence, then it is pretty weak. We'll see who turns out to be correct about Bridgewater. I think that he will continue to be a below average QB on a great team. You disagree. We'll see who's right. I won't change what I thought at this point if he turns into a great QB. I'll admit that I was wrong. Right now, though, he would be a failed QB if he was in Cleveland. He landed in exactly the right situation for him. He doesn't have to win games, just not lose them.

Oh no you didn't!

So................you still think that Farmer was correct for drafting Manziel instead of Teddy?

Manziel was, and still is, the more talented prospect.

Hence why the Vikings also tried to trade up to get him. And then had to trade up later for their second choice at QB.

Which is ironic, seeing as the 4th QB taken is currently the best of them.

Is that what I said? I don't believe it is.

I actually think that the mistake was not in passing on Bridgewater, but in not drafting Carr. That is the one that will haunt us until we get the QB spot settled.

Carr was (and is) my favorite QB from that class.

I wanted Bridgewater, but as things have turned out, Carr was the better choice. That's hindsight of course.

Further proof that you don't know squat about QBs.

How so? Bridgewater has a much better defense and running game, yet hasn't been as effective as Carr. I wanted Bridgewater, then Carr that year, but so far Carr is the better QB.

And Carr has a far superior OL. It's a lot easier to make accurate throws in a clean pocket w/plenty of time than it is when you are under pressure almost immediately. Additionally, the Raiders have a ton of weapons for Carr to throw to. TB does not.

I am not knocking Carr. I think he is a good qb. I just think that some people use stats as their only guide and don't understand the nuances of the position.

So what nuances do you think that Carr lacks?

He throws into tight windows, throws with anticipation, has one of the quickest releases in the NFL, is accurate to all level of the field, and has leadership galore. He is a mature kid (a concern many had about him in the draft) and seems very coachable. He has solid mechanics and footwork, at least most of the time. He gets the ball out quickly, which helps his OL as much as they help him. he is not content to throw short passes all game long, and attacks down the field regularly.

I am not sure what traits you feel Bridgewater has that are superior to Carr.

how many days after the SB does it take for us to sign Peyton Manning as the new GM?

That ship has sailed.

If Manning joins any team it will be the Titans.

Yep. They have a ready made succession plan in place right now. They kept their GM, and made the interim the new coach, who has failed everywhere he has been a head coach, the new head coach. He was a lousy head coach with the Bills, and with the Jaguars. The Titans hired him, and no one will shed a tear if Peyton rides in next year, gets acclimated over the course of the year, and then makes changes in 2017.

It's set up really well for Peyton.