DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... American Exceptionalism

I agree, unfortunately there is a need for them by people who, for one reason or another, cannot deal with a real bank.

What they charge is the sin and shame. It represents the worst of what Capitalism can be.


They charge exorbitant interest rates- that can sink the borrower even further into debt... a debt that they may never climb out of. And they are found primarily in low-income neighborhoods where financially-strapped people are easy "marks."

They are sometimes called "predatory" loans. And they are called that for a good reason.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/...4d74_story.html

Thanks for your response Clem...I better not reveal I had a hand in that business a few years back...wouldnt want you to have a worse opinion of me

I thank God I got into other opportunities...it is a slimy business and this may sound terrible but I cant stand dealing with people and terrible credit...and sold my interist in the companies to my brother he has no heart...so its a perfect fit.

Clem, I agree with you. It is the backward nature of capitalism.. the less you can afford, the more you have to pay.

I can borrow money at an extremely favorable rate. If I was poor, borrowing would cost me a lot more. It seems counter intuitive.

And before anybody explains the nature of "risk" to me as to why it works this way, I already get it.. just pointing out that it's like saying an apple is $.10 if you are fat and full but it's $2.00 if you are starving...

Yeah its hard to understand how you charge someone insane rates when they cant afford to live as it is...its like lets put an even bigger anchor around their neck so they can NEVER get out of the high interest game.

that's why I want to see them torched.

I hate them. And I hate they way they choose their prey. As if poor people don't already have it bad enough.

You could always take the Clemmy fortune and start your own check cashing at reasonable rates.

I don't like them either.

However, they don't choose their prey.

You could start a change Clem. I could. Many on this board could.

Start a business lending to high risk customers. You, I, we, would obviously charge an interest rate higher than a bank. Put it at 1% per month. That's only 12% per year.

Or do a weekly thing like many of those places do.


Like it or not, those places serve a purpose. Other wise, they'd be out of business.

After I got axed from the dealership I worked for (and was part owner of, before selling out but still remaining employed..until that owner sold to Jim Yark, who then fired me) I worked for 3 months at a "buy here pay here" place.

I absolutely loathed it. Dealing with the poor, interest rates of 24%, selling $2000 cars (many of which we only had $500 to $1000 in) for $5000, even $6000. I hated it.

The people we sold to couldn't get a loan from a bank for $100 if they put $50 down.

3 months I put in. Til I got the opportunity to do what I do now.

Oh, and the Yark dealerships? Wow, I could go into detail about them, trust me.

Yeah, Jim, who's now dead, his brother John, who took over after Jim died? He's a worthless pile of what what I picked up in my back yard yesterday. Want stories? Facts about Jim or John? I can give them to you. George Ballas was a stand up guy. He's now dead. His wife, Maryanne, same way. Good people. I had many advertising meetings with George, as well as other Pontiac GMC dealers in the Toledo area.

The Yarks? Obnoxious, snotty, snooty, "I'm better than you" jackwads. Pompous, arrogant.

Sorry, but it isn't the poor they scam. They scam the stupid. Just about every 'poor' person has a large TV, cell phone, internet in some form, and so on.

I grew up with a single B/W TV, with rabbit ears, and there was color TV and cable available. My dad would not get it until he could afford it. There were video rental shops available, but he didn't get a membership until he could afford it (Yes, you had to have a membership back then). Everyone is now 'first world poor' because they feel the need to compete for the best stuff and stay connected.

While driving through the poor and rundown neighborhoods of Hartford you can't help notice how many of these houses have satellite dishes attached to the roof.

I talked about this a couple years ago. I'd watched an episode of 'Game Changers' on Bloomberg TV about Magic Johnson establishing movie theaters and Starbuck's outlets in inner-city neighborhoods.

While I was impressed that he'd do such, I wished that he'd have helped in perhaps more substantial ways. His ventures ensured a certain amount of local employment, and allowed the money transacted to stay in the community...


...but I thought he missed the boat by not investing in neighborhood-based micro banks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microfinance

My 'fortune' wouldn't do the job... but guys like Magic, MJ and Oprah could.

Don't think this idea hasn't crossed my mind before.

Kinda reminds me of Hospitals. You need an MRI the Hospital charges 5800 bucks. Your insurance will only pay $2800 and the Hospital accepts that as payment in full. You need blood work OK that's 472 bucks, but your insurance only allows $63.00 and the Hospital accepts that as payment in full. So if you have insurance the Hospital just charged you $6272 but accepted $2863 as payment in full, while the poor sap who couldn't afford health insurance is charged $6272 and gets no breaks, and has his credit ruined even further

That's exaggerating a bit. Every hospital that I have worked with, and there are many, discount their prices to the self pay individuals. You can argue that the way they price is wacked and that the whole system is screwed up, which it is, but I have yet to see a hospital try to stick it to a self pay patient.

Fortunately, in my experience, this has not been the case.

When I did not have insurance, I had to have some testing done at St E's. They worked with me on the bills, and some of the bills they forgave entirely. I had similar experiences with MRIs, X-Rays, and blood work at other locations/companies.

My doctors all charged me what they got paid by either the standard insurance company, or by Medicaid or Medicare. (plus the co-pay, of course) My most expensive doctor was $70/visit. Considering that I pay a $40 co-pay for specialists, this wasn't too bad. My family doctor charged me only $50, and he said that since I didn't have insurance he would only charge me for every other office visit. he then would not even collect that many times. The last year before my Medicare started, he did not charge me for 2 or 3 visits in a row. I mentioned this to him on the next visit, and he calmly wrote "N/C" on the sheet a patient takes to the office, and said "We all have a responsibility to help others when we can." He and his brother are great doctors, and certainly seem to live the Christian faith.

I have found that most doctors, hospitals, and testing facilities will work with you if you don't have insurance. In fact, some hospitals (St E's, for one) will work with you on deductibles and co-pays even if you have insurance, if you make less than a certain amount. The income limits are rather high too. A person can make up to 4 times the poverty level and still receive some assistance. An uninsured person receives a 40% adjustment, even if their income is well above the other limits of their programs.

I think that hospitals get a bad rap sometimes. Many have similar programs in place to help those who need help. People have to ask though.

Explains why healthcare costs are so high for everyone else. They are making up that shortfall somewhere.

Two sides to every coin.

Just like the poorer Nations paying less for Pharmaceuticals than Americans pay.

Might be.

However, St. E's pursues a Christian approach to care, and helps those in need. Their prices are no higher than any other similar hospitals, and their level of care is exceptional.

I received a few bills last year that the Hospital or DR Billed wrong (old insurance, policy number wrong) and they Billed me full price. Once I called them back and straightened them out I was rebilled at the lower amount. So I guess I could say the way they price and bill is wacked Jules. As for them trying to stick it to the patients, well since I have never been without insurance, and since you deal with this all time I will defer to your knowledge and wisdom on this subject dear

Back when my wife was ill we had a couple ER visits. My co-pay for ER visits was north of $200. When I came to check out, hey gave me the option to bill me and pay later, but if I paid at that time they gave me a 20% discount.

Sometimes I wonder if medical bills are so high BECAUSE so many people are insured. The thinking being that procedures cost so much because most people will have some sort of coverage and no matter what they charge, they'll collect all or most of whatever they charge.

Basically what I'm getting at is if I have a product or service that I know many if not most people will have a subsidy (insurance) to use, what's my motivation to charge less than what I could make?

When we talk about getting costs under control, I don't ever really see WHY costs are what they are. Many people put forth the idea that costs are so high because hospitals are trying to recoup money due to the people that can't pay. But I can't believe that's it. I mean, why would they offer me a discount if I pay cash up front then?

I just think that when you're primary method of payment for something is a subsidy, there's less incentive to reduce costs. Parallel with education costs: as virtually everyone is guaranteed to be approved for tens of thousands of dollars in loans, what incentive would a university have to keep costs down? Similarly with the housing bubble: people were approved for mortgages hand over fist and in dollar amounts they had no way of ever being able to pay back, but the access to all that money artificially inflated housing values. The more people that have a bunch of money to spend, why wouldn't I build a home and then sell it for as much as I possibly can get, even if it isn't worth that much?

In every case, the hospital, the school, the contractor all get paid. Past that, they don't have any interest or stake in whether or not you can pay the money you borrowed from someone else back.

Why wouldnt they take the money right then even at a 20% discount? Rather then letting you leave and something happens in your life where now you cant pay the hospital but for the problem you just had happen that requires your money instead of the hospital.



Its partly because of the uninsured and people who just dont pay the hospital...have you read about how many hospitals have closed due to their patients not paying their bill?? Illegals and the indigent destroyng hospitals..there are a crap load of hospitals in the red due to this.

Ton of stories out there for you to read about this..

I don't know what to think of this. Would you lend a person, say 1k, knowing that they defaulted on several credit cards and made around 12k - 13k a year, not to mention it might be a single mom or dad with 2-3 kids?
Would you really think they would pay it back, even if it was at 5% interest? It's a high risk business, If they could not pay back the c/c or other loans then what makes you think they will pay you back? Thats what happened in the home loan bust a few years back, Gov. ordered loans to the poor, who could not afford the payment. How smart was that?

As far as Hospitals go, who's fault is it? The Hospital, for charging high rates because they know that insurance co.s will pay it? or the Insurance Co. for agreeing to pay high rates? IMO the rates should have never been increased just because a person has insurance.

I'm sure someone will be along to correct me...but the way I understand it...the increase isnt do to a person who has insurance but because the person who doesnt..so the cost is passed on to the schmucks who do...bleednbrown.