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Oof.

I think is more the exception than the rule though.

A question:

Is it easier to get Von Miller, DeMarcus Ware, Malik Jackson, and Derek Wolfe on the same or get one above-average QB?

[quoteI think is more the exception than the rule though.][/quote]

Is it? Shall I post the number of Super Bowl winning qbs who were drafted 1st or 2nd by their original team again? I really don't feel like looking it up again, so maybe think about it before you blow me off.



What would Wolfe or Jackson be w/out Miller or Ware?

You really don't think a dominant pass rusher is important?

I am just talking about having non-pathetic QB play. I believe where the QB is drafted is a separate conversation.



Is this SpiritBro or Versatile Dog? When did I say a dominant pass rush was not important?

First quote: My point was that almost every Super Bowl winning qb was not the first or second overall pick in the draft. Look it up for yourself.

Second quote: You didn't exactly say that, but man, you have to admit that having a dominant pass rusher like Miller makes it easier for the guys who are lined-up next to him.....right?

It's like all the talk about Schwartz. Do you think he would be as good as he is w/out Joe on the other side? Think about it before you answer.

Right. My argument is that you need a competent QB to make almost every Super Bowl. The best place to find a competent QB is at the top of the draft.



By "didn't exactly," you mean "not at all"?

Having good players makes it easier for all the other players to succeed.



I agree that having Joe Thomas around helps the whole line. But Schwartz also has been pretty good. Remember John St. Clair?

No we would not have. We couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass and our QB play wasn't awful. We've seen worse.

Whether it was because of scheme, injuries or talent ( probably a combination), our defence was brutal at everything.

Couldn't rush the passer, create turnovers, RBs gashed us, passing teams scored almost at will.

I wouldn't mind at all if we took Bosa, if he is indeed a potential force.

Last year no, for the remaining years of Mannings career, except for 99, 00 and 11 (neck injury), probably.

Your line of thinking is falling off. It's a stupid hypothesis... Would the Browns have been better or worse if they came back in the league in 98 or 99???

Too many people are swayed by the current Super Bowl champions at a time.

A few years ago, it was build like the Seahawks. Before that, build like the Patriots. Now it's build like the Broncos.

In all honesty, QB and Pass Rush is the only option at this point at #2. And because I do not see a supreme pass rusher in this draft *Bosa is close, but he won't have the proper impact in a 3-4 as a DE* I totally lean towards QB instead.

It's only stupid because you disagree w/it. Nice chatting w/you.

Too many people are enamored w/qbs who don't deserve to be at the top of the draft because they hear that "you gotta have a QB."

Defense wins. It always has. The Browns defense stinks. It needs to be improved. That isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

I think you need both a good defense and a good QB to be successful. Manning doesn't have the arm he used to, but he's still one of the best at making adjustments at the line. Cam Newton has an MVP year and the Panthers made the game.

You can't win a Super Bowl with a bad defense or bad QB play.

My thinking is I want the player with the highest potential. Bosa might be the "safest" pick but I don't think he has a whole lot of room for growth. Mariotti does a great job of developing OSU's players physically. I don't see the he'll put on 10 lbs easy in the pros. I've seen lots of Bruce Smith arguments, but I haven't seen Bosa play like Bruce.

I like Wentz' potential at QB. I don't think he's the greatest QB ever now, but I think he can be a top 3rd QB in the league. He grew 10 inches and 100 lbs from high school. I don't think he's a finished product. He seems to have the drive, desire, intelligence, and love of the game that will let him reach the potential presented by his physical tools.

There's no small risk involved, but to get the biggest reward sometimes it has to be taken.

Says you. A guy on a message board (just like the people who want a QB).

For someone who likes to use sarcasm, you sure don't get it when others use it.

As if you were being sarcastic.

Here is the quote I responded to:



Think again, sunshine.

Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that the Browns draft Wentz or Goff at #2. Chances are good they just spent their first round pick on a guy who won't be an impact player right away, even if he starts. They've effectively drafted a delayed impact player (with no guarantees.)

They have many needs on defense in a strong defensive draft, so it makes sense that having used the first pick on an offensive player with little immediate impact, that the next pick should be a defensive player who promises to be productive early.

But then it's the #32 pick and Zeke is still on the board. He's definitely an impact player, and would be a great addition, but that means ignoring the defense for another round. What do you do?

Alternatively, let's say Zeke is gone, but Jaylon Smith is there. He may have been a top 5 pick but for the injury, and a healthy Smith would be a great addition to the team, but that would be spending the top 2 picks on delayed reward players. Again, what do you do?

I see no way Zeke makes it to pick #32 but if he does you take him without hesitation.

Jaylon Smith's injury was devastating. I don't touch him at #32. I don't consider him until round 5 at the earliest. He won't play in 2016 and might not play in 2017 or ever.

Id consider using a 4th on Smith if we get a Comp pick.. 5th definitely.

It'd be ironic if he and IFO were the leaders of our defense 4-5 years from now..

This is my thinking, if he is there when our first comp pick comes along, use it on him.

Yeah if Smith is there in the 4th/5th I'd take him. I bet he goes before that though.

Someone will take the risk on a top 10 talent

walterfootball keeps a listing of tons of mocks (http://walterfootball.com/draftdata.php). I took a look at it today and wanted to know the breakdown at #2 for us.

I removed anything over a week old and...no surprises on the expected pick

Pick........Count
C.Wentz.....48
J.Goff.......18
P.Lynch.....2
J.Ramsey..2
J.Bosa.......1
Total........71

Hue might as well get a Wentz t-shirt made. It's pretty obvious who we are picking.

Actually, I don't think it's obvious at all. This group doing the drafting has no track record, first time doing it (seems I've heard this before). The mocking community is convinced we are drafting a QB @ 2. Every time the media asks, it's assumed they will, but nobody has said so. Hue has said the QB situation will be addressed, and it is a priority, but he has never said it will be the first priority addressed.

The art of misdirection, say nothing in a way that the listener interprets it to mean what they want to hear.

ya Hue said we would be 100% walking away from this draft with a QB. But no where did he say when we going to grab one...I hope it is BPA and get a QB when the value is there

I agree I don't think it is obvious.

Remember too old school GMs do not like what the Browns are doing. If Browns do not draft a QB #2, which as you stated many old school analyst are predicting, get ready we will hear a lot of bad press.

I believe the tide is turning with QBs. Teams are designing offenses around lesser QBs. I am not saying bad or average. Teams can't wait around hoping they find their holy grail.

The team who learns to be cost effective with the QB position can be successful for a very long time. Look at Denver and Baltimore stuck figuring out how to retain their best players. Teams like Seattle and New England continue along.

What? Are you insinuating that they are afraid of what the Browns are doing?

You bet your sweet arse they do. I think Paul DePodesta is the one person that brings validity. Otherwise, I agree it would be nothing but a joke.

I love you, bugs.........but, I think you are delusional. The complaints other GMs have about the Browns is that there are too many decision makers and it's hard to get a deal done.

They are NOT worried that the Browns have some new secret plan that will blow up the league. That's just the crap that the crook Haslam is selling and some of you are buying.

Come on Vers no one is going to come out saying we are concern! They will belittle the process in every way.

Look what Paul DePodesta did for baseball. You're kidding yourself if you don't think GM are hoping Haslam does his thing blowing it up in two years.

Think what happens IF Browns actually do it right. After all amusement ride eventually end!

Delusional.

Yeah, you have loved every organization [other than when Banner was here] and have tried to sell us on how great they are. So, I ain't buying what you say, either.

I do love how you consistently act like my opinions are whacked, though.........no matter how many times things play out.

Simply because I see a glass half full where you see it half empty I mean really!

I guess if I call them Clowns and Crooks I can be someone! Living in negativity depresses me. If that makes you comfortable, whom am I to argue.

No, it's not as simple as that.

Some of you guys act like analytics are new. That no other teams use them. Like, it's so revolutionary.

You say other GMs are worried about the Browns. Let's take a team like the Ravens. Their sitting around talking about how they have to win the division first and then win playoff games.

Someone says, "Man Pittsburgh is tough w/Big Ben, two excellent RBs, 3 great receivers and their aggressive defense."

Another guy says, "The Bengals have a very good O-line, an emerging qb, two good RBs, an excellent TE, and an outstanding defense."

Someone else points out that "New England has Brady and Belichick and are always a threat to win the Super Bowl."

The first guy says, "Well Denver won the Super Bowl. Their defense presents huge problems for any offense."

The GM chimes in, "Nah, you guys are way off base. Cleveland has Dee Haslam involved now." The other guys tremble. He then adds, "They also have a couple of Harvard guys who were never involved in drafting or acquiring NFL talent before." The room goes silent. You can almost smell the fear in the room. The GM concludes with a dagger to the heart when he proclaims, "The Browns are using analytics now. They are the team that I fear the most."

Like I said................delusional.

Wow, I like the way you twist things! I am not sure anyone ever used political smear tactics to disagree my with opinions. You sure went out of your way.

I for one never stated analyitcs is new! What I've stated all along no one has committed an entire front office infrastructure around analytics. Teams have hired people providing analytical information.

Definition of concern is to have to do with or relate to. Definition of worried thinking about unpleasant things that have happened or that might happen. I used the word "concerned." If Browns are successful implementing their front office infrastructure, I do believe teams will look at GM role a little differently. Hmm, down playing the role of a GM. Maybe even you can see, seriously doubt, that may cause a little concern!

No where did I state Pittsburgh and Baltimore need to build their team in preparation of Cleveland's coming!

I love this one. My point Dee makes a good business person gets turned around saying she brings fear to all the GMs! Wow! I have been taken out of context before this is a doozie!

If I don't used words such as crook, used car salesman, and clown describing this front office, I get labeled "delusional"! I come to this site to get different perspectives on football. Instead I get to read Donald Trump.

Old School GMs are only concerned because if it actually works, then like anything else that has worked once, everyone else will try to copy it..

And "it works" could simply mean a team like the Browns going 8-8 or better..

If you are a GM, and not currently employed, the idea of someone doing it differently than you lowers the amount of job possibilities.

Who cares. I will stand by what I said.