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Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

He made the seventh day "Holy".

Not the first day, the fourth day or the sixth day.

No I pointed out that God is interested in mercy and not sacrifice, in other words a religion of love, not a religion of loveless, legalistic observances of commandments. You are playing the part of the Pharisee.

Keeping the commandments is necessary, but Jesus said that it is the heart attitude that matters, not externals.

The end of the commandment is Love out of a pure heart, a good conscience and faith unfeigned.

Love is the fulfilling of the Law.

If pointing out the examples of Christ and the Commandment of God makes me such. So be it. Those are not the laws of Moses. Those are the laws of God which Moses brought down to the people.

I'm not the one making excuses for why I don't follow Christ's example to mankind.

Did you read Galatians 4, Colossians 2, and Hebrews 4? Read them carefully and prayerfully.

...and how do you know I'm not following Christ's example?

Why?

The original Christian celebrations were celebrated on the same days as pagan holidays, because that way they could hide from those who wanted Christians killed. They used these pagan holidays as cover for their Christian celebrations.

Christmas, for Christians, is celebrating the birth of Christ. We also give gifts and decorate the house with both secular and holy imagery. I have Santas and snowmen, along with manger scenes and Christian imagery in my home.

Easter is another day that was celebrated on a day that allowed Christians cover and protection from being killed on sight. They could celebrate their beliefs, while hiding behind the trappings of the pagans.

To me, the rest of the stuff doesn't matter, as long as we remember what we are celebrating on those 2 important holidays. Christmas is the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus, our Savior. Easter is the day we celebrate the resurrection of our Savior from the dead. Are these the exact days of the calendar that they originally took place on? Almost certainly not. Does it really matter if they are not? Nope. We celebrate the birth and resurrection of our Savior. It does to matter what day is chosen to celebrate these events.

It is almost ironic that we look at the origins of these holidays, and the way they were protected behind pagan celebrations, and I think that there are parallels today. Imagine of Christmas was solely celebrating the birth of Christ. Imagine if Easter only celebrated the resurrection of Christ. How many would be calling for these holidays to be abolished because of their solely Christian basis? I think that it would be a huge battle if this were the case.

These are my thoughts on the matter.

The one thing the New Testament mentions Christ doing more than anything else is keeping the Sabbath. If that isn't setting an example I don't know what is.

Look, we're never going to agree on this. I accept all of the commandments. I believe God made the seventh day the Sabbath and hollowed it. (Made it holy).

I try to follow the examples of Christ.

Your religious views differ from mine.

I don't believe in following pagan customs. I don't believe that Friday afternoon until Sunday at sunrise is three days and three nights.

We will never see this the same. That much is obvious. But ignoring the Sabbath and accepting paganism into Christianity is only a small part of why organized religion as a whole turns me off.

The reasoning for not keeping the Sabbath reminds me of a simple analogy.

Your dad always keeps his yard nice and trimmed. He decides to tell you that your job is to follow that example and the job is yours to follow. The job is now yours.

Then one day your dad comes home from work and sees you are not doing what he asked for. He asks you about it and you say, "Well, you did not command me to do that today".

I don't think your dad would be very happy.

Please explain what Paul meant in Colossians 2:16-17

Consider God’s warning to Israel as they possessed the land He had promised to them: “Observe and obey all these words which I command you…. [And when you] dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them … and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way; for every abomination to the Lord which He hates they have done to their gods…. Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it” (Deut. 12:28-32).

Consider God’s warning to Israel as they possessed the land He had promised to them: “Observe and obey all these words which I command you…. [And when you] dwell in their land, take heed to yourself that you are not ensnared to follow them … and that you do not inquire after their gods, saying, ‘How did these nations serve their gods? I also will do likewise.’ You shall not worship the Lord your God in that way; for every abomination to the Lord which He hates they have done to their gods…. Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it” (Deut. 12:28-32).

God tells Christians: “Do not learn the way of the Gentiles….” (Jer. 10:2)—do not even mention the name of their gods! (see Ex. 23:13). The apostle Paul wrote: “Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and lawlessness have in common? And what fellowship does light have with darkness? And what union does Christ have with Belial? Or what part does a believer have with an unbeliever? And what agreement is there between a temple of God and idols? For you are a temple of the living God, exactly as God said: ‘I will dwell in them and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.’ Therefore, ‘Come out from the midst of them and be separate,’ says the Lord, ‘and touch not the unclean, and I will receive you’ ” (II Cor. 6:14-17).

Do we really believe these plain scriptures? Clearly, a true Christian can never mix what is godly with what is pagan—or the true with the false! For God can only be worshipped in a spirit of truth (John 4:24).

http://www.cbcg.org/should_christians_celebrate_easter.htm

What was Paul saying in Colosians 2:16-17, Pitt?

It means let not man judge you by the beliefs and traditions you keep. Which I'm not. It's not for me to judge.

OK, but you didnt include vere 17. You left that out.

All I seem to get from you is that while it is a commandment, we are as of now, because of the New Testament, "not commanded" to do it. I don't see following the 4th commandment as something I need to be commanded to do.

The New Testament makes it obvious that Jesus observed the Sabbath as was his custom. Jesus was sent here as an example for mankind. For me, that's more than enough to show he wants us to follow it.

If you choose not to, so be it. I just don't see it as something that would be such a hard thing to do. Just because most of mankind has chosen to ignore it, doesn't mean that's the right thing to do.


I choose to observe the way Jesus set an example for me to. That's more than enough for me. I choose not to include paganism in my observance of God. That too is my choice.

Just for perspective: Colossiand 2: 16-17;

16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

I would think that this is fairly clear.

Yep, if you choose to ignore the Holy Sabbath, you won't burn in hell for it.

So hey, let's ignore it then!

Colosians 2:17. What does it mean?

If you want to keep the Saturday Sabbath, awesome. So that means that you don't travel, cook, do yardwork, go to the store, eat at a restaurant, etc on Saturday, right?

Jesus observed the Sabbath because before His resurrection, he was under the law.

His resurrection freed us from the Law, and Jesus was resurrected to become our Sabbath rest. We rest in Him.

I feel, as I often do, that a wider examination of the scriptures is required here. Let's look at Romans 2: 13-17;

13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14 having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Freedom From Human Rules
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

So, we once followed these customs, but now we exist in grace, in the rest found in Jesus Christ.

Legalism is death. A Christian doesn't follow the law for fear of the consequences if he doesn't. He follows Christ, and obeys God, because he delights in doing so. The Christian should be happy to obey God. He should love the rules God has set, that are for our own good. We should want to obey, not from fear, not from legal consequences if we don't, but because we know God loves us, and wants what is best for us.

We need to be careful not to place ourselves under the law, instead of under God's grace. If we are following the law, then we are not following Christ. The Law is to show the lost why they are lost. The believer is in Christ. Christ has fulfilled the law for each and every of His followers. The law is no longer binding upon us. That does not mean that we can go do whatever sinful things we want to, but it means that we follow Christ, and obey God, because that is our deepest, most heartfelt desire.

Please check out the following resources regarding legalism. God wants us to follow Him by faith, not to obey a law.

43 Bible verses about Legalism
http://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Legalism

What does the Bible say about legalism? How can a Christian avoid falling into the trap of legalism?
http://www.gotquestions.org/Bible-Christian-legalism.html

Lesson 57: Why Jesus Hates Legalism (Luke 11:37-54) | Bible.org
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-57-why-jesus-hates-legalism-luke-1137-54

[quote=YTownBrownsFan]Jesus observed the Sabbath because before His resurrection, he was under the law.

Yes indeed. If not keeping the Sabbath equals not following Jesus' example (Pitt's argument), then if we follow that to it's logical conclusion we would have to keep the entire Mosaic Law, because Jesus kept the entire Mosaic Law, and not just the moral commandments.

Pitt's argument is that the Sabbath predated the Law, but His argument that since Jesus kept the Sabbath we are obligated to keep it too, (even though it was never commanded to the Gentiles or the church), would put us under a commitment to keep the entire Mosaic Law.

But keeping the Sabbath will not harm anyone, just as keeping the dietary laws of the OT will not harm us and would actually be beneficial. It's only a problem if we base our salvation on such things and teach them as necessary for salvation.

I did not even come close to saying that.

Carry on.........

This coming from the Christian who tried to get me banned.

Respectfully sir.......if you don't like reading my opinions, don't click on them!

Well if I came off like a know it all to you, I apologize. I just have very deep convictions that are more real to me than what my six senses tell me.

Faith as the Bible teaches it is much more than a belief. This is what most people don't realize. Biblical Faith actually has substance to it, just not physical substance.

I already said I can't make someone believe, and I already said that no one can convert someone to Christianity through human discussion ALONE. So I'm not trying to do that. I'm just sharing my hope, and hoping someone will catch on to the same thing by the Grace of God.

I can not save myself.

Salvation for me comes from my Lord and His sacrifice.

He has willingly laid down His life for me in atonement for my sins.

There is nothing I can do to ever come close to equaling that.

No one knows that more than me. The Cross is the crux. It is there that forgiveness, cleansing, and regeneration happen.

...all because of the cross

On top of it, we are KEPT by nothing else but the power of God and the intercession of our High Priest, Jesus.

It is wonderful when you find The Lord but it sure isn't easy after that.
God is like a great blacksmith, he heats, then pounds that metal and plunges it into cold water.
Once tried and molded, that metal is of use to Him.

Very true...and it's not an overnight thing. It takes time. Also the process is lifelong from my understanding. We'll not be the finished product until we see Him as He is.

That is a lie!!!! When did I ever try to get you banned?

Banning Vers would be the Christian thing to do.

I wouldn't read too much into it. He used to be sure I was a moderator/referee on here and banned him many times.

I am not now, nor have I ever been a moderator or referee on here.

thats exactly what we expect the refs to say haha

That's the last thing I'm breaking a sweat about!

12 years old.
Second Baptist Church, 45801.

1950's-1960's: Home of my Great Uncle (read: 'Grandfather figure'), the Rev. Giles Junius Johnson.

Second Baptist Church, 45801: where My Father met his future bride, Juanita Lorraine Findley (Uncie's niece). The church where they were united in marriage with my Great Uncle Giles as officiant. The place where their (closed) adopted son gave his young heart to God's Forge of Truth.

I wasn't a 'finished product' when I arose from those Baptismal Waters.
(...dang, Rev. Melvin Woodard held me down there a looooongass time.... sure glad I had those swimming lessons at the YMCA when I was still a young, un-washed heathen... In retrospect, I'm certain that he'd noticed my infatuation with his eldest daughter Melvina long before I made The Pledge. LAWD, that girl was fine- it seemed like I was underwater for 2 weeks.... )

To this day, I believe that the forging process is ongoing in my life. An ongoing series of heatings and dips that continually re-shape His tool into whatever form is needed for the next challenge. I've been His sword. I've been His shield. I've been his ploughshare, and I've been His anvil and hammer. I've been his tenor voice in Benjamin Britten's 'Psalm 150,' His baritone voice in Handel's 'Messiah,' and I've been his cellist in Mozart's, Brahms' and Giuseppe Verdi's 'Requiem,' Bach's 'St. Matthew's Passion,' and Mendellsohn's 'Reformation Synphony.'

I've been His voice at my city's Youth Treatment Center (read: Juvenile Hall), and His soothing strains at retirement/hospice centers (The Old Folks/dying always want to hear spirituals from their younger days.) I have at least 50 of these spirituals committed to perpetual memory, and carry an old, retired hymnal from 1960's 2nd Baptist that I keep in the backhatch of my CR-V for gigs for tunes that I don't know).


_____________


I am continuously being re-made in His image, because He is all-encompassing, and my uses for Him aren't yet finished. I supplicate myself to be continuously re-forged, because only He knows how He might use me next. It is not for me to say when I'm His finished product, or when He has used me to His fullest. So- I remain open to His possibilities for me. I remain open to change, to new challenges- and to yes, 'evolution'... because He has shown me- in more than 40 years of service- that current events change over time, while Human Nature does not.

What I've never been since the age of 18, was a member of any organized congregation... and I believe in my heart of hearts that my lack of affiliation has been His plan for me all along. I've come close a few times, but each and every time, He has exposed that congregation's denominational doctrine to be just a sliver of His Wisdom and Omniscience. Every single time I've walked away from a denomination, it has proven to be the right move... because soon after, He's revealed to me things I'd have most likely never learned, had I made a home- and "settled down."

I refuse to limit my openness to His plan for me by behavioral dogma that was set down by another 'chunk of 98.6,' whomever that chunk might be. John The Baptist, any of the Apostles, Martin Luther, Pope Francis- ANY of them. I will defer to NO man (or his interpretation of God's message) in my quest to be what He needs me to be, when He needs me to be it.

I work to keep my heart open to His will... and his forging and re-forging of my inner core has taken me far from the walls of 2nd Baptist, 45801- to places that myopia would never allow me to go.

__________

His teachings have placed me into contact with the music of Christians living in South Korea and Taiwan. His guidance has led me to the throat singers of Tibet, the Gamelan ensembles of Bali, the spirituals of the Black South Africa oppressed, and the songs of indigenous 'First Nation' peoples of North America. His path for me has been directed by the sounds His children have made in His image, world-wide, since time immemorial.

I have been eternally blessed with the sounds of Man... imitating/interpreting the voice of God.

This is my life's calling:
When I was 9 years old, My Lord and Savior introduced me to a foreign language- a language which transcends the spoken word. The ONE TRUE LANGUAGE that spans the divide created by the fall of the Tower of Babel. In my heart of hearts, and soul of souls, I believe that I've been challenged by God to reunite us all- in One Voice- to praise His Holy Name.

Psalm 150:
"1. Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2. Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3. Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4. Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5. Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6. Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD."

Psalm 150 is the life that was chosen for me by The One Who Conceived Me. He created a motherless/fatherless baby, placed him (through adotion) into the hands of God-loving Christians- and smiled upon His creation with a voice that only He could bestow upon one of His Own.

He spoke to me (through my devoutly religious upbringing) before I even knew what a cello was; He introduced me to the voice I was destined to use... and He chose to speak- through me- unto the world... through the sounds I make, and the outreach I've undertaken.

Even though I've suffered through countless 'trials of faith,' and numerous lapses of worthiness, My Life has always been a model of God's Grace upon His most unworthy. I seek to make the world a better place through my time spent upon this plane of existence. I cannot conceive of a higher calling... and I am grateful to be one of the few called at this level.

I try desperately to live my life as a Spiritual Being, even if I don't come off to the rest of My Fellow Man as being particularly 'religious'... and it do it because God has personally spoken to my soul on a level that transcends any Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, or any other man-made 'doctrine-based religion' that might form my image of Him.

I steadfastly refuse to allow another man 'explain God' to me. Were I to do such, I'd be allowing Man to speak upon my heart/soul... instead of God.

Man hasn't earned that right.

1. Man can never be Jesus Christ On Earth
2. God speaks to each of us on a one-to-one basis.


"By their deeds, ye shall know them."

___________

So, 40 YEARS: in the future, when we disagree on social, political, or humanitarian issues... I hope that you'll take into account the depths of my personal spiritual journey, before you discount me as a 'PC Patrolman,' 'Mindless Leftist,' 'Godless Heathen,' or "Libthingy.'

My God has called me to a higher purpose. I have deep faith that He is not concerned with your assessment of me. I believe that He is only concerned with my acts and your acts, as they pertain to the salvation of His children.


What shape will you allow Him to create "in His image,' the next time He requires you to become re-forged?

I'm still malleable- at 59 years of age. Heat and 'reformation' are nothing new to me. They have been the story of my spiritual life.

Are you cast from the same iron? Are you willing to allow yourself to be re-forged as The Blacksmith sees fit?
What shape will you assume- In God's plan- for His greater good? What voice has He chosen to use in you- his 'earthly tool?'


It isn't necessary for you to answer in this thread, because your answer isn't mine (or others) to assess. Your answer is for Him to weigh... upon your own heart of hearts.


.02,
God's 'tool.'
Clemdawg.

Well the WHO can kiss my ass. I am not doing it.

How Christian of you.

So I started a post "Atheists are Angry!" just to lighten things up a bit and yank 40's chain... it was deleted. Not sure how that breaks any rules.

you know this is a christian board. the refs had to take it down.

could you imagine if you wrote "muslims are angry?"

permabanned.

I am going to reply to myself so I don't tick off any individual person lol

I see a lot of disagreement going on about the sabbath day. I can tell you something my preacher shared with me when I was younger. In his opinion the sabbath day could be any day, and it could be different days for different people. He said if the sabbath day was Sunday than every preacher was breaking that commandment since they all worked on Sunday Mornings. He always took one day during the week that was his sabbath day in which he did no work.

People write that on here everyday, just to have others reply that we 'just don't understand them'.

That depends, what did you say they were angry about?

The black sabbath or something like that