DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Atheism and Nonexistence

I guess if you’re an atheist you pretty much believe once you’re dead you simply don’t exist. Is that right?

That seems counterintuitive to me.

I guess before we were born, we didn’t exist. So we were all already dead. That wasn’t so bad. The time sure flew by.

It just seems easier for me to believe in life after death. (cognizance after death)

And why not? I think it kind of makes living more enjoyable. Especially when you get older and realize human life is a “ wink of an eye”.

Doesn’t it suck to think we’re just gonna go away? And it could happen any second. And even if it isn’t real soon, it’s still going to be real soon.

As for me:

“Meet you on the other side padre.”

I don't believe in atheists.

There's different forms of atheism. I'm not sure about how to explain it, as I'm agnostic.


I do know that atheist can be spiritual, because for a lot of people, it's just a lack of a belief in gods or the supernatural.

They can still remain spiritual however.

But I don't knock anybody for it. Believe whatever the hell you want.

I think believing in an after life helps people live their life and not feel so unimportant...I imagine it scares a lot of people to think death is final...no soul moving on..nothing just death....and grasp to the thought of an afterlife to help ease their minds.

Yep. If God did not exist, man would still have had the need to invent him.

Some say we did...

Rah for Ra.

We absolutely did. The question that literally zero people can answer with 100 percent certainty is which one, if not all of them?

However, that's ok. If people want to create a new religion, more power to them.

Believing in a flying spaghettini monster so no more crazier than believing that a virgin woman got knocked up from an being that nobody has ever seen.

If that's what helps them go through life, then whatever.

Swish I believe 100% there is a higher power...I have witnessed things in my life that leaves me no doubt....now which religion is the correct one?? YIKES now that is where it muddies the water for me.

No way is all of this random...Ive talked to people who say we are insignificant due to us being the only life on this planet in the middle of nowhere.

1 I think there is other life out "there" .
2 We are not insignificant...all of the other planets and space and we are the only human beings?? no not insignificant to me.

And I dont care how we evolved into being a human being....but to say there is nothing of power or intelligence that created all of this...just doesnt fly for me.

My best friend is atheist...and have talked way to much on this subject and I just cant wrap my brain around the idea of Atheism

This whole question has led to many a sleepless night for me, pondering the universe and existence in general. The one thing I can't get around, as far as the existence of God (aside from our mere existence itself) is, if there is no God, then who started the energy transfer?

Here's a point of view, especially meant for atheists but could really apply to anybody. I'm not saying that I believe in these things-- I'm just merely putting it out there for discussion. I'm not even trying to make any point. It's mostly a bunch of loosely-connected ideas that I don't have answers to myself.

Isn't humanity on the verge of playing 'God'? Humans have been able to grow/re-grow limbs and organs in some mammals, and that technology is transferring over to humans. Animals have been cloned. Humans have not yet been cloned, at least not on record, but that will likely happen in the future as well.

We can already create absolutely amazing technologies, and technological development is increasing at an exponential rate. And yet, humanity's technology is still relatively primitive. They just seem amazing compared to the past. The years and decades that follow will show this conclusively.

Many in the cutting-edge tech world are adamant that conscious, sensory A.I. of a quality that far exceeds humans will eventually be invented/created. Virtual and integrated reality will be created that blurs the line between what is fake and what is real.

What is real anyway? Some people (self-included) sometimes have very vivid and real dreams, with very real sensory perception. Occasionally I will go lucid, which means that I'm aware that I'm in a dream and can to an extent control what goes on in them. There are differences of course-- I would never mistake reality for a dream like I might the other way around, but it gives a new way of considering what is 'real'.

Could reality just be a 'brain in a vat', connected to a supercomputer? If humans can/will eventually create a superintelligence/conscious A.I., and create enormous virtual words via super computers, isn't that essentially creating a universe, or 'playing God'?

If humans can do it, why couldn't ancestors of humans (or some other form of intelligence that we would have no way of comprehending) have already done it?

You guys are breaking your heads over an afterlife and the existence of God but it is going to be so simple when you finally croak. You will, in that final half second, pass from this life to that life like passing from the living room into the kitchen. Easy as Pie.

Look around you at the earth and nature. Does anything ever really die?
Living things die and turn into dirt that feeds the flowers that die and turn into oil which we burn as fuel which turns into heat and gas that goes into the atmosphere to mix with the rain which we boil for cooking that turns to steam that goes into the atmosphere and comes back as rain and feeds the trees that die and make fertilizer that feeds the flowers and grows the trees which we harvest for houses that we live in till we die and become dirt.

Phew!

Our Spirit never dies and our bodies are recycled. Heck, it's only natural.

And that's good that you are certain for yourself that there is a higher power.

But you can not convince someone else that with 100 percent facts. That's the point. Typically when all the discussions and different angles have been exhausted with someone who is non religious or atheist, the typical end response is "you just gotta believe".

And I'm sure you understand that response just doesn't fly with athiest.

People take leaps of faith in everything they do. When it's all said in done, there's not complete certainty in anything. One could develop a master plan to accomplish a goal, but all it takes is one random event that nobody calculated to completely screw it up.

But for athiest, there's data in relying on things in life. There's no certainty that a plane won't crash or explode, but the numbers show that planes are actually the safest way to travel in the world.

But convincing somebody to believe in a God based off of what? Experiences that could be chalked up to coincidences by another person? Bibles, Quran, and Veda's that a large port potion of the world population believes are nothing more Han works of fiction?

I think the majority of non believers and agnostic people have no problem with others wanting to believe in God and religion. Hell, the majority of the earths population have some for, of belief system.

I think once policies and laws are dictated by those who feel they have the moral religious superiority to do so, that's when it becomes a problem.

It could just be that life after death is the same as life before one was born. Nothing. I currently have no way of knowing and neither do you.

But I do know. I have Faith. Faith is a Blessing from God that only those who have not seen but believe are granted.

You telling me I do not know these things is like trying to convince me as I walk from the living room to the kitchen there is no breathable air in there. No, I have faith there is.

Perhaps when we get to Heaven, you will say, "YOU EXIST"! While I will say, "Ah, finally I'm home".

You will then be lead to the cheap seats cuz you didn't receive the blessing of having had Faith.

I think the biggest influence or decisive thing for me is kinda what you said. Our universe is too complicated for everything to have been just by chance. I don't go out of my way to bash guys like Swish for disagreeing. However, I just can't process the idea that everything came from nothing.

Found this to be interesting as some of it fits perfectly into explaining why we create things to give our lives meaning and to try and understand the impossible .



In social psychology, terror management theory (TMT) proposes a basic psychological conflict that results from having a desire to live, but realizing that death is inevitable. This conflict produces terror, and is believed to be unique to human beings. Moreover, the solution to the conflict is also generally unique to humans: culture. According to TMT, cultures are symbolic systems that act to provide life with meaning and value. Cultural values therefore serve to manage the terror of death by providing life with meaning .

The problem I have with Bible thumpers is that it isn't enough for them to believe in the fairytale unless they can cajole, coerce ,strong arm or otherwise manipulate others who are more or less enlightened to join in the story. Live and let live I say .

The answer of what will happen when I die will be answered when it happens . I strongly suspect what that answer will be but maybe it is different for everyone . There is a oneness IMO that encompasses living and dead, past and future that cannot be accessed from the present . Meaning in this life to me is a subjective thing that puzzles me . The most base answer to the meaning of life for me would be to pass your genetic memory on to the future . Everything after that is like the foam left in the bottom of the glass of beer that we try and make sense of so that we can exit this stage with some manufactured belief that we mattered .

I spent some time once in the deserts of Saudi Arabia in a place they call The Empty Quarter which is an emense desolate place . A place that is seemingly devoid of life for as far as you can see in any direction . I remember looking at the sand and thinking about the significance of a single grain of sand in an endless desert and that is how I view my existence . There is solace to be found in the emptiness of a place like that . Realizing that the sand will shift and the grains will grind into dust to be carried on the wind to be part of something else somewhere else .

you are confusing God and religion again

That would be God(s), don't forget the polytheists.

Not really, since the God in question is based off the religion or lack of.

I believe in a god, but none of the ideas I base the God I believe in is off a religious text.

However, you can't say you aren't religious but believe in God, if your God is based off Christianity. You can't say you believe in Jesus and then say you aren't religious, as your belief is based off religious text of the bible. Same thing with Islam. You can't say you aren't religious if your idea of what God is based off the prophets in the Quran.

That means your spirituality is based off mass identifying ideology.

If you just say you believe in a higher power, then there is no confusion with God and religion.

I see it as Live and let die.

Believers will always reach out to the man about to jump to his death, even when it is painful and insults are thrown his way, he will always try, for he knows what awaits you, how simple it is to avoid and it breaks his heart.

Steve Jobs dying words...

OH WOW. OH WOW. OH WOW....

That's fair enough.

One of the problems I have with non-believers is it simply isn't enough for them (many of them, that is) to say they don't believe. No, they have to call God a fairy tale, and they attempt to belittle, twist, and try to catch a believer in some "trap" where then they can say "Ha! Gotcha". Or, they simply say "non believers are enlightened."

You forget that it is part of their membership in that religion to spread that religion. I tend to politely tell them I am not interested and to go away.

Hey Swish I just wanted to say thanks for being respectful to my post...I think you know where I'm at with respects to all the different religions.

I'd love to tell you why I believe and what happened but man people would think I'm off my rocker so its best to just keep that story private.

But I appreciate your response and want to let all of you guys know I read what you write and give differing points thought.

Yep, too many extremists on both sides. It's the same in the race and political discussions. Extreme opinions being too frequently stated and not enough listening going on.

There is nothing extreme about Truth.

No but peoples perception of what is truth can be 40...

J/c

I know this story won't change anyone's mind, and that is just fine.

May, 20 2011. Went to my first job. Had been there several times over the years. Older lady. I'd never seen a husband there.

I was met at the door by her daughter. Stepped in, and was promptly told "this will be the last time you will be here."

In my head, I instantly wondered what I had done wrong. Daughter proceeded to tell me that on April 17th, her mom had been diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumor. She had been told she had anywhere from 10 days to 3 months to live by the doctors.

We went into the room where her mom was. Didn't look sick, didn't act sick. We talked a bit, me, expressing my.....thoughts - is that the word I want? Anyway

She had been told that chemo and/or radiation would only extend her life by possibly a couple of weeks. She told me "I told them no. If I only have days, to maybe 3 months to live, I'm not going to live them being sick from Chemo and radiation. I'm 83 years old."

I began doing what I do, but the whole time I'm wondering what to say when I'm done. Can't really say "Thanks, have a good day. Call me again". etc.

As I was working, I kept praying, talking to my self, praying, etc. "God, what do I say?" And the answer came back (in my head) you talk to her. I argued (with myself, I guess) No, I don't. Talk to her. I can't. You will. No I won't. You'll figure it out, etc etc.

I got done, walked back in the house with a knot in my stomach. I had no clue what to say. We talked for maybe a minute, till the awkward moment. I asked if she had read the book Heaven is 4 Real. I had read it maybe 6 months earlier. She said she'd heard of it, but hadn't read it. I told her about the book in maybe 3-4 minutes time.

Then I asked "Mary, are you saved? Do you believe in God?" (then, Instantly thought Oh no, what if she says no? What will I do?)

She stared into my eyes. I thought I might have upset her. Her reply was: "Yes, I believe in God. I am saved. I know where I'm going."

Phew!!

Then, she said "let me tell YOU something about my husband. He told me he'd see me soon." I absorbed that for a second, and said something along the lines of "Oh, I didn't know your husband was living. Haven't seen him....." whatever.

She said he's not, he's been dead for over 50 years.

Then the daughter (whom I found out was 54 at this time) chimed in with "Back in the end of January mom called me at 3 a.m. and told me I needed to get over there right away. When I got here, she told me dad woke her up. He was gently pulling her arm saying Mary, it's time. It's time to come home."

And Mary replied "But Marv, I'm not ready yet."

He let go of her arm and said "Okay. I'll see you soon though."

Mary was scared, that's why she called her daughter in the middle of the night.

Keep the dates in mind: She was awakened, and told it's time, in the end of Jan. Less than 3 months later, she was told she had 10 days to 3 months to live.

(plus, at the time I was there, it had been 33 days since the time left had been discussed - she was already 23 days past the "worst" scenario, but 33 days into the "best" scenario.

What does this prove? To a non believer, absolutely nothing. "ah, it was just a dream."

To a believer, a lot, in my opinion. There IS an afterlife. There IS a God. JMO.

Like I said at the beginning, this won't change anyone's mind, and that's fine.

I kept watching the obituaries, and while she made it just past 3 months, she did die.

i try my hardest to keep it respectful bro.

but you know, once mofo's start saying people who aren't christians are perverted, it sets me off.

as far as the thread goes, and nonexistence, i think atheist WANT to believe something happens after death, but a lot of it just sounds way too....fanatical.

i mean, burn in a lake of fire?

i think the hindu's got something like 7 different floors of hell?

it's a bit much.

What you have just shared with us has elevated you to Awesome+.

To me there is an obvious pattern to our world. That keeps me open to the idea of a supreme being. Yet I question the accuracy of what we are taught. Anyone who takes time to seriously research Christianity for instance can not argue it is riddled with plagiarism and mistranslations. Some taken directly from temple walls in Egypt and elsewhere. Heck there are several flood stories that predate the Bible by well over a thousand years. I just recently heard there are over 25k different types of Christians in the world. 25k!! If that is true, what are the chances you just happened to be born into a family that was practicing the right one?

I also wonder why an omnipotent being would create an opponent, such as the Devil?

What use does God have with having a gender if they are not having sex?

The more I delve into quantum physics, the more I believe we will find "God" somewhere with in it.

I'm glad you said this...Quantum physics is actually why I do believe in a higher power...a stroke made me to where I can barely spell potato and once could do trig and very complex math to now I dont trust myself to balance any numbers of relevance..but that is where I started to really believe and not from any bible or religious text.

Damn good point...

You say that like it's crazier than believing that there was a highly volatile mass of something (that nobody knows where it came from) and it exploded in all directions and the laws of science and physics just happened in such a way as to create solar systems and planets and moons and at least one of them was just the right size and just the perfect distance from the sun and had just the right goo mixture to create proteins which somehow formed together to form simple DNA, which continued on this mission of unguided self-improvement until it ultimately led to thousands of completely different complex living organisms.

sounds crazy doesn't it?

so....what was your point?

Man created God in his own image

You can believe in life after death without believing in God, Heaven or hell. It's normally labeled paranormal. The pre-christian people believed in many gods, nature and all sorts of other things. That's the problem with Christians... They think their God and belief system is the only valid system all others are lesser and evil.

I personally believe you live and you die. What you do in between is life. If something comes after, it is certainly not life as we know it or as described in fairy tales.

I absolutely believe in good and evil because it exists everywhere I look; I just don't blame it on invisible beings.

I love my children, same as you.
I love my family, same as you.
I love my life and try to live being as good a person as I can knowing that when I'm dead this how I will be remembered.
My eternal life is lived via my children as a part of me is within them and every generation to follow.
When I die, it is over for me.

I wish I were able to understand quantum physics and its theories better than I do . I

In your world view, the 18 year old kid, who is serving his country because he loves it and wants to protect it, and who heads off to war and is killed 5 days shy of his 19th birthday, just ceases to exist?

The newborn baby who struggles for life, and who finally is unable to go on any further at age 3 ... is just done?

The 10 year old child who is killed by a child molester, after a year of torment and torture at his hands, goes on to nothing?

If that child molester is never caught, and lives a beautiful life, with tons of money, and he commits crime after crime against children, until the day he dies, surrounded by family and friends, at age 102, then he is never punished?

Man, what a bleak outlook.