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Yep... Creationists have less blind faith than atheists alright...

You say that, but notice how no atheists have picked up a crusade based on a copy of Hamlet, written by monkeys...

What's the creationist counterpoint to the evidence in the fossil record that supports evolution?

Only thing I can find is "global flood", but that's one of many tales lifted from the ancient Sumerian religious tradition. No evidence exists for a global flood.

I know the argument comes back to faith, but at least understand some need hands on scientific proof.

What's the creationist counterpoint to the evidence in the fossil record that supports evolution?

I know the argument comes back to faith, but at least understand some need hands on scientific proof.

Does this include discussing science (or rather what may be falsely called science)

What other belief system has God as a Trinity. What other belief system has God becoming fully human, and sacrificing Himself to redeem His creation? What other belief system has the created being able to enter into eternal fellowship with God?

I was interested in different belief systems when i was a young adult. I am not familiar with any other belief system that shares these key traits.

It includes any and all subjects.

Most pagan systems, actually. There has been debate for years that the Christian trinity was adopted from pagan religions.

You covered it.

I cannot think of any other belief system that has One God, in 3 aspects, in one Trinity.

“The universe was divided into three regions each of which became the domain of a god. Anu’s share was the sky. The earth was given to Enlil. Ea became the ruler of the waters. Together they constituted the triad of the Great Gods” ( The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, 1994, pp. 54-55)

“The ancient Babylonians recognised the doctrine of a trinity, or three persons in one god— as appears from a composite god with three heads forming part of their mythology, and the use of the equilateral triangle, also, as an emblem of such trinity in unity” (Thomas Dennis Rock, The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations, 1867, pp. 22-23).

“The Puranas, one of the Hindoo Bibles of more than 3,000 years ago, contain the following passage: ‘O ye three Lords! know that I recognize only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity, that I may address to him alone my adorations.’ The three gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva [or Shiva], becoming manifest to him, replied, ‘Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only the semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation, and destruction, but he is one.’

“In the Fourth Century B.C. Aristotle wrote: ‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’ ” (Arthur Weigall, Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 197-198).
[/quote

Polytheism

[quote]The Hymn to Amun decreed that ‘No god came into being before him (Amun)’ and that ‘All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, and there is no second to them. Hidden is his name as Amon, he is Re in face, and his body is Ptah.’ . . . This is a statement of trinity, the three chief gods of Egypt subsumed into one of them, Amon. Clearly, the concept of organic unity within plurality got an extraordinary boost with this formulation. Theologically, in a crude form it came strikingly close to the later Christian form of plural Trinitarian monotheism” (Simson Najovits, Egypt, Trunk of the Tree, Vol. 2, 2004, pp. 83-84).

Other areas

You are confusing three gods with One God. The pagans you are referring to were polytheist. Christians are monotheist, and the doctrine of the Trinity is monotheistic. The Trinity is not three gods, the trinity is ONE GOD.

I can't expect you to understand the doctrine of the Trinity, but the proper understanding of Trintarianism is monotheistic, whereas the pagans you are referring to are polytheistic. Therefore they are not in the same category

Also, many of the supposed similarities between Christianity and paganism are greatly exaggerated (and not really similarities at all), and some of the similarities in pagan religions came AFTER the completion of the New Testament canon was completed.

http://www.equip.org/article/was-the-new-testament-influenced-by-pagan-religions/

Celtic paganism has always had the maiden/mother/crone figure representing the goddess. That was around long before the trinity. One goddess, three phases.

How Ancient Trinitarian Gods Influenced Adoption of the Trinity
Posted on Jul 22, 2011 by United Church of God Estimated reading time: 6 minutes
Many who believe in the Trinity are surprised, perhaps shocked, to learn that the idea of divine beings existing as trinities or triads long predated Christianity. Yet, as we will see, the evidence is abundantly documented.
Marie Sinclair, Countess of Caithness, in her 1876 book Old Truths in a New Light, states: “It is generally, although erroneously, supposed that the doctrine of the Trinity is of Christian origin. Nearly every nation of antiquity possessed a similar doctrine. [The early Catholic theologian] St. Jerome testifies unequivocally, ‘All the ancient nations believed in the Trinity’ ” (p. 382).

Notice how the following quotes document belief in a divine trinity in many regions and religions of the ancient world.

Sumeria

“The universe was divided into three regions each of which became the domain of a god. Anu’s share was the sky. The earth was given to Enlil. Ea became the ruler of the waters. Together they constituted the triad of the Great Gods” ( The Larousse Encyclopedia of Mythology, 1994, pp. 54-55)

Babylonia

“The ancient Babylonians recognised the doctrine of a trinity, or three persons in one god— as appears from a composite god with three heads forming part of their mythology, and the use of the equilateral triangle, also, as an emblem of such trinity in unity” (Thomas Dennis Rock, The Mystical Woman and the Cities of the Nations, 1867, pp. 22-23).

India

“The Puranas, one of the Hindoo Bibles of more than 3,000 years ago, contain the following passage: ‘O ye three Lords! know that I recognize only one God. Inform me, therefore, which of you is the true divinity, that I may address to him alone my adorations.’ The three gods, Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva [or Shiva], becoming manifest to him, replied, ‘Learn, O devotee, that there is no real distinction between us. What to you appears such is only the semblance. The single being appears under three forms by the acts of creation, preservation, and destruction, but he is one.’

“Hence the triangle was adopted by all the ancient nations as a symbol of the Deity . . . Three was considered among all the pagan nations as the chief of the mystical numbers, because, as Aristotle remarks, it contains within itself a beginning, a middle, and an end. Hence we find it designating some of the attributes of almost all the pagan gods” (Sinclair, pp. 382-383).

Greece

“In the Fourth Century B.C. Aristotle wrote: ‘All things are three, and thrice is all: and let us use this number in the worship of the gods; for, as the Pythagoreans say, everything and all things are bounded by threes, for the end, the middle and the beginning have this number in everything, and these compose the number of the Trinity’ ” (Arthur Weigall, Paganism in Our Christianity, 1928, pp. 197-198).

Egypt

“The Hymn to Amun decreed that ‘No god came into being before him (Amun)’ and that ‘All gods are three: Amun, Re and Ptah, and there is no second to them. Hidden is his name as Amon, he is Re in face, and his body is Ptah.’ . . . This is a statement of trinity, the three chief gods of Egypt subsumed into one of them, Amon. Clearly, the concept of organic unity within plurality got an extraordinary boost with this formulation. Theologically, in a crude form it came strikingly close to the later Christian form of plural Trinitarian monotheism” (Simson Najovits, Egypt, Trunk of the Tree, Vol. 2, 2004, pp. 83-84).

Other areas

Many other areas had their own divine trinities. In Greece they were Zeus, Poseidon and Adonis. The Phoenicians worshipped Ulomus, Ulosuros and Eliun. Rome worshipped Jupiter, Neptune and Pluto. In Germanic nations they were called Wodan, Thor and Fricco. Regarding the Celts, one source states, “The ancient heathen deities of the pagan Irish[,] Criosan, Biosena, and Seeva, or Sheeva, are doubtless the Creeshna [Krishna], Veeshnu [Vishnu], [or the all-inclusive] Brahma, and Seeva [Shiva], of the Hindoos” (Thomas Maurice, The History of Hindostan, Vol. 2, 1798, p. 171).

“The origin of the conception is entirely pagan”

Egyptologist Arthur Weigall, while himself a Trinitarian, summed up the influence of ancient beliefs on the adoption of the Trinity doctrine by the Catholic Church in the following excerpt from his previously cited book:

“It must not be forgotten that Jesus Christ never mentioned such a phenomenon [the Trinity], and nowhere in the New Testament does the word ‘Trinity’ appear. The idea was only adopted by the Church three hundred years after the death of our Lord; and the origin of the conception is entirely pagan . . .

“The ancient Egyptians, whose influence on early religious thought was profound, usually arranged their gods or goddesses in trinities: there was the trinity of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, the trinity of Amen, Mut, and Khonsu, the trinity of Khnum, Satis, and Anukis, and so forth …

“The early Christians, however, did not at first think of applying the idea to their own faith. They paid their devotions to God the Father and to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and they recognized the mysterious and undefined existence of the Holy Spirit; but there was no thought of these three being an actual Trinity, co-equal and united in One . . .

“The application of this old pagan conception of a Trinity to Christian theology was made possible by the recognition of the Holy Spirit as the required third ‘Person,’ co-equal with the other ‘Persons’ . . .

“The idea of the Spirit being co-equal with God was not generally recognised until the second half of the Fourth Century A.D. … In the year 381 the Council of Constantinople added to the earlier Nicene Creed a description of the Holy Spirit as ‘the Lord, and giver of life, who proceedeth from the Father, who with the Father and Son together is worshipped and glorified.’ …

“Thus, the Athanasian creed, which is a later composition but reflects the general conceptions of Athanasius [the 4th-century Trinitarian whose view eventually became official doctrine] and his school, formulated the conception of a co-equal Trinity wherein the Holy Spirit was the third ‘Person’; and so it was made a dogma of the faith, and belief in the Three in One and One in Three became a paramount doctrine of Christianity, though not without terrible riots and bloodshed . . .

“Today a Christian thinker . . . has no wish to be precise about it, more especially since the definition is obviously pagan in origin and was not adopted by the Church until nearly three hundred years after Christ” (pp. 197-203).

James Bonwick summarized the story well on page 396 of his 1878 work Egyptian Belief and Modern Thought: “It is an undoubted fact that more or less all over the world the deities are in triads. This rule applies to eastern and western hemispheres, to north and south.

“Further, it is observed that, in some mystical way, the triad of three persons is one. The first is as the second or third, the second as first or third, the third as first or second; in fact, they are each other, one and the same individual being. The definition of Athanasius, who lived in Egypt, applies to the trinities of all heathen religions.”

Right, but to others it appears at polytheistic. You can have your opinions, and others can have theirs.

Every belief systems have valid criticisms lobbied at them. I'm quite sure the message in the Word is to listen, but turn the other cheek. Maybe even listen much more, acknowledge their concern, and stay humbly steadfast with not passing judgement.

It might be hard for you to see as you're way beyond knee deep in Christianity, but to the outside, and this is coming from someone who's been on the outside, it looks like polytheistic thought.

Sounds closer to modalism than Trinitarianism. Orthodox Trinitarianism is not modalistic either, friend

http://www.theopedia.com/modalism

Orthodox Trinitarianism is not a triad and it is not modalistic either. Your arguments are based on not understanding the doctrine of the Trinity

I hold to the Orthodox view of Trinitarianism. The orthodox view of Trinitarianism is NOTHING like the things you are describing

It is not God in three phases like you describe. The Father, Son, and Spirit are eternally coexistent.

Don't just accept what antitheists say about Christianity uncritically

Gosh, I guess it's not the same, as it's female. The Celtic trinity represents the 3 phases of the Goddess, and also represents the 3 phases of life, birth, life, death. One deity, 3 phases of life. It also represents the cycle of rebirth. You do realize that crosses in Scotland have been found to be 5000 years old, and most of them have Celtic trinity symbols carved on them. This idea of a singular deity with 3 phases has been around long before Christianity.



Once again, the symbology, which is now used by the Christian church, was a symbol of the 3 phases of the goddess, the cycle of life and rebirth, and the cyclic nature of the universe.

Wrong again. The maiden/mother/crone was all 3 at once. She represented the 3 phases of life and fertility. You might be knowledgeable about Christianity, but I believe you need to learn from the point of view of the pagan instead of the Christian. Then you may understand better. What's next? The pagans took the virgin birth story from Christianity?

By the way, I am not talking about modern day paganism. I have first hand knowledge from a Celtic Pagan witch (for lack of a better term), who was raised in the 'old ways'. This is how it's always been viewed by them.

Celtic paganism has always had the maiden/mother/crone figure representing the goddess. That was around long before the trinity. One goddess, three phases.

I think everyone should learn about the different modern religions. It shows we're very similar across cultures, along with belief systems, as a human race.

In this thread we argue semantics when neither side will accept scholarly scientific articles, or listen to christian apologetic arguments with questionable scientific methods.

In this thread we argue semantics when neither side will accept scholarly scientific articles, or listen to christian apologetic arguments with questionable scientific methods.

[quote]You are using a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy anyways./quote]

You wouldn't happen to be Hank Hanegraaf in real life would you?