DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Big Brain front office - not ready for prime time...

I know for certain that I did not pick this up from another poster. I either read it in an article or perhaps I saw it on NFL.com as a Rapaport news update or such.

I believe you have mistaken the Schwartz situation. The Browns made an offer to Schwartz. Schwartz and his agent felt that was a good starting point. They believed that there was more of a market for Schwartz than there really was. They believed all the hype about how in demand he would be. The Browns front office believed some of the hype themselves and made an offer that in the end turned out to be an overbid for Schwartz. Once Schwartz and his agent realized they could not get a better offer, they returned to the Browns. The Browns front office realize the market was not there for Schwartz as they imagined. They pulled the offer. Schwartz and his agent got their panties in a bunch over the offer being pulled and signed the highest offer they could get... KC. Good luck to Schwartz. If he would have signed the offer to begin with rather than playing games with the Browns front office, he would have had more money, and no one would have realized they overpaid for him. Now Schwartz gets to face Von Miller and Khalil Mack 4 times a year. Good luck on improving your value Schwartz.

Is that your opinion or is it factual?

They never will fire them all, tar and feather Haslam and run him on a rail. They all lie can you think of an owner / GM/ COACH that has not told the fans lies at some point?

Steelers / steroids, NE / deflate, filming , goes on and on and on. Who you going to get that hasn't / wont lie about one thing or another.

None of us at this point knows what exactly went down in each negotiation in free agency, Maybe they blew the entire thing maybe they had no chance from the get go or the deal good for BOTH parties just couldn't be made.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/03/09/browns-yank-offer-to-mitchell-schwartz/

This is only one report. There are at least a dozen. I have to admit I do not know who the source the reporters use. The state of reporting today is dismal. However, I can only base my opinions on what I believe to be true by what is being reported.

Voleur

Thanks for the link.

This part is interesting....or confusing....LOL



I guess one side can say there is proof of it happening one way while the other side can counter w/the same argument.

"Mitchell Schwartz's tale sounded the most disappointing, as the NFL Network reported the Browns pulled an offer to the right tackle.

The Browns made Schwartz an offer prior to free agency. Cleveland.com reported it was worth $7 million per year. Schwartz's camp said he wanted to test the market, but felt there was an agreement the team's offer would stand after he saw what was available on the market. When he found more money wasn't necessarily out there, he came back to the Browns to see if the pre-free agency offer stood.

The team at that point had moved on. Schwartz's money had been parceled elsewhere. He wound up signing in Kansas City for a reported $6.6 million per year.

The argument could be made the team should have reconsidered and taken Schwartz back. He is a professional who has done a lot right since he was drafted. His agent said that though he's excited to be in Kansas City, he liked Cleveland and wanted to stay. Add in the Browns had almost $50 million in salary-cap room. It does not seem like $7 million per year for a good right tackle is lavish.

The Browns didn't do it. The Browns live with the fallout."

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/...ith-the-fallout

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- On the first day of free agency, the Browns lost two-fifths of their offensive line in center Alex Mack and right tackle Mitchell Schwartz, their starting free safety in Tashaun Gipson, and their speedy receiver and returner in Travis Benjamin.

Along the way, the front office, led by Executive Vice President Sashi Brown, got hammered from coast-to-coast for botching the day. NFL Network analysts blasted them all afternoon, and words like "debacle" and "disaster" described them on social media. In addition to losing some of their own free agents, they also failed to land any of the big-name players they had been linked to, such as Bengals receiver Marvin Jones.

But Brown and coach Hue Jackson had made it clear that they wouldn't panic, that they'd be disciplined and that they'd build through the draft. Jackson went so far as to say "it will not be disappointing" if we lose the big-four free agents.

Here's a behind-the-scenes look at what happened on the challenging first day:

1. Mitchell Schwartz: The Browns made Schwartz an offer shortly before the NFL Combine that was far below what he felt he could get on the open market. Sources said it was somewhere in the $7 million-a-year range. His agent, Deryk Gilmore, told the Browns that the former second-round pick would test free agency. Schwartz' goal was about $8 million to $10 million a year, taking into account the growing importance of the position against the Von Millers of the world. When Schwartz opted to test the market, the Browns assumed he was gone and turned their attention to other players.

But Gilmore told cleveland.com Thursday that Schwartz wanted to return to Cleveland and wishes he could've stayed. His fiancee is from here, he purchased a house here and he's entrenched in the community. After testing the market, which wasn't good for right tackles, Schwartz went back to the Browns in the hours before free agency and ultimately planned to accept their pre-combine offer. But they were informed by Cleveland that the offer no longer stood, at least not at $7 million a year. It may have been posturing on the Browns' part, but any hopes of reaching a deal were apparently dashed when NFL Network reported Wednesday morning that the Browns had pulled their offer.

The 'nonsense' Mitchell Schwartz endured en route to new deal

Feeling Cleveland was no longer an option, Schwartz opted to sign a five-year, $33 million deal with the Chiefs, including about $15 million guaranteed. His brother, Geoff Schwartz, congratulated him on the deal after the "nonsense'' he endured during the day, presumably from the Browns. NFL Network's Mike Silver reported that the Browns didn't negotiate in good faith.

In the end, the Browns had moved on before Wednesday when Schwartz opted to test the market without engaging with their $7 million offer. For Schwartz' part, it's common for a player to shop a team's number in hopes of making more.

Ultimately, he didn't, at least not in terms of yearly average. The $6.6 million a year average makes him the second-highest paid right tackle in the NFL, but it's short of the payday he was hoping for. The Browns now have to hope that Austin Pasztor can step in, or they need to find a replacement. Bottom line: It didn't have to come to this. The Browns were willing to pay Schwartz $7 million a year, more than he's getting from the Chiefs. His $15 million guaranteed from Kansas City is more than what the Browns were offering, but a deal could've been struck had things not gotten ugly on Wednesday. It's unfortunate for both sides.

2. Alex Mack: The Browns wanted to keep Mack, but only at the right price, and he knew he could make more on the open market. Peter King of Sports Illustrated reported that Mack will average $9.5 million a year, and that he turned down $500,000 more per year from the Browns to join Kyle Shanahan in Atlanta. I'm told that the $9.5 million represents the maximum value of the contract, with every incentive being hit and that the actual average is more like $9 million a year.

As for Mack taking less money to play for the Falcons, the Browns never actually made him a concrete offer after he voided the final three years of his contract (at $8 million a year) last week. Mack's representatives agreed to keep the Browns in the loop, but it was generally assumed that Mack, 30, would make more than the Browns wanted to pay. As for the Mack team, they found the Browns to be extremely professional and easy to work with and they look forward to doing business again in the future.

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/what_happened_with_mitchell_sc.html

Vambo, I appreciated the read. It was entertaining but judgmental. It was full of innuendo and speculation. Such as the statement about how the agent stated that Schwartz wanted to stay in Cleveland but wanted to test the market as well. They did not act upon the Cleveland Browns offer other than to not accept it in hopes of getting more. The article attempts to put the motive of the Browns into an incompetent light while making Mitchell Schwartz and his agent look like they were back stabbed. In reality, reading the sequence of events, Schwartz was given an opportunity to sign for more than the market value for a RT. He choose to put all his chips on black and spin the wheel. He did not win the big payday he was hoping for. So he calls a do over. The Browns have already been told no by Schwartz and his agent.

The front office in place now is not one to toy with. They are changing the way business is done in Cleveland. The Browns showed they valued his services by offering him what they felt was market value for his position. Schwartz showed his appreciation by ignoring them and flirting with the pretty girl, free agency. He was shot down by free agency and wants the Browns to take him back. Moved on. I am sure the Browns front office had a back up plan. They will act in the best interest of the team. When the article adds the little tidbit about his girlfriend being from the area as reasoning for Schwartz wanting to return to Cleveland was hyperbole. It was always about money with the Schwartz team.

I just posted from a couple different sources I don't claim either to be 100% true.

I agree that it's a good read as well, Vambo. My thanks for putting it up.

I have done some negotiating before, not anywhere near this scale, but the pattern here seems too, too familiar. A phrase we used seems to sum up this FO's dealings: They know the price of everything and the value of nothing crucial. Or they value nothing that is seemingly crucial to the other side.

Expecting better with less is delusional. I wonder what this gang feels was "won" by what left Cleveland. There is always something to win, usually at another's expense in the give & take. I just dont see the upside in the endgame, much less the endgame itself at all. I just see loss.

Thanks Vambo for the article postings. The Schwartz situation seems like we're having children run our organization. You know, the note on your desk with "will you go out with me? Circle yes or no" ordeal.

I mean, is it a pride thing why they pulled it? Someone said it before, crfs I believe, but these people should be trying to get all the money they can in this business with the abuse and etc put on their body. Why punish someone unless it was clear as day stated (which his agent didn't seem to make it like that) that the offer would be voided if it carried over into free agency.

that's what I took away from the article. Schwartz wanted more money. I guess being paid the 2nd highest in the league was not quite good enough the agent and him. Or his agent misguided him. the whole situation is depressing. i also take away that if a team had offered him 8 million he most likely would have been gone. does not really paint the picture that he really wanted to stay but was in the end chasing the money.

Look we offered Schwartza good deal if he signed before free agency officially kicked open. He did not sign it and his agent was trying to hit other teams for more money using our offer. He got no better offer and they knew our offer had a time table attached. His agent screwed Schwartz and then tried to blame the Browns.

Mac I know u enjoy fighting the man but in this case you are completely freaking wrong and the Browns would have been labeled complete wusses with a capital P if they had given in and given him the original offer which was almost a million more per year than what he got.

Greed killed the deal, not the Browns.

I believe it! They stuck their chests out in an attempt to show their ego blown, authority controlled mindset and ended up looking like buffoons all while weakening us even more as a team and organization.

That is seriously disturbing.

wouldnt have matter. they would have pulled the offer when he came in to sign it anyway......

"It took you over three minutes to sign, so, as a result, we pulled it because we're morons. Thank you, and have a super duper day!" - would be Sashi Brown quote

Lol

Fire them all...BTW who would you get to replace them that is BETTER?

Any billionaires that don't lie out there that have great football knowledge wanting to buy the Browns?

Who would the new coach be?

Any experienced GM's that don't LIE and willing to overspend in free agency ?

pee wee herman?

So you are available then!

The Browns pulling their offer makes zero sense though.

They wanted Schwartz back, at least before free agency opened. They made NO move(s) to shore up the RT position, and had already lost Mack from the OL. They had an opportunity to get Schwartz back, at their price, and decided to pull the offer. Maybe they hoped to then negotiate a better deal, figuring that he hasn't getting what they offered, but if so, they botched that angle. Maybe they had another OL in their pocket, but if so, he hasn't materialized yet. They have Pazstor, who looked solid in limited duty, but who knows how he'll do at RT? In the end, the Browns created a hole that they did not have to create. How is that sensible? It certainly appears that they botched the entire affair.

Schwartz could have taken the deal he was offered...maybe his side botched the entire affair.

I've been involved in several Union/Mgt contract negotiations. What I see here is "typical," with the difference being the Union stays in place and there is no shopping around for a new contract elsewhere. When a contract is offered, you talk, try to get more, make counter offers, or move on to other issues and revisit later. To me, it doesn't look as though Schwartz's agent did this. It looks as though he said.. "That's nice. I think we will look elsewhere. Have a nice day," rather than continuing contract talks.

When he decided that the Browns offer wasn't so bad after all, he called back, wanting the old offer and was told... "When you said to have a nice day, we did. I had a New York Strip and Depo had the Lobster. Hope your day is as nice."

Negotiations are a pain in the ass and personalities get involved. You take what you can get and move on.

jmho

What player goes into free agent, and takes an offer below what he wanted, without at least taking a quick look around?

Free agency hadn't even officially opened when the Browns pulled their offer. Who is to say that Schwartz didn't talk to a team or 2, and say, "You know what, I just bought a home in Cleveland, my finance is from here, I just want to stay home." only to have the Browns thumb their noses at him?

The Browns had a top RT, in the prime of his career, who they could have had back, at their price, and instead we got nothing. Sorry, but that's a fail on every single level there is.

And you are POSITIVE there is nothing more to the story nothing else happened that could have effected the deal that we don't know about?

I love the examples and etc you used to get your point across. Depo had the lobster, hahahaha!

But all joking aside, I see the seriousness of the post too. Maybe there's more guilt on Mitchell's agent, there's just no way to know. All we know is something happened, something tanked and Titanic like sunk to the bottom, and Mitchell isn't a member of our team anymore.

I wonder where the money was parceled? A new yacht for the Dee and Jimmy?

It sure wasn't parceled into FA signings to fill the holes they created.

Sure, there is always a possibility of there being more to the story. However, IMHO, and given all of the available information, my statement certainly is at the very least plausible, and probably is likely.

If you mean the Mack contract, that is not disturbing at all to me. It shows me that the Browns valued Mack at 8 million a year. He was under that contract. The Browns would have been foolish to offer more than they valued him in order to keep him. As for the player talking positively about Cleveland and wanting to stay, he could have not voided his contract. That was a purely money seeking move initiated by Mack and his agent. The Browns are operating under a totally different set of rules. They evaluate players, assign a value to players based upon analysis of the player. The Browns front office will no longer overpay for under performing players. Until the Browns win, you will not see any huge contracts in Cleveland. I suspect the Browns will look to buy out option years of draft picks that produce and are in their prime. I suspect that the Browns will try to front load any contracts with large salaries in order to make dumping the player later in the contract easier on the salary cap. It is not the front office who is the problem. I see the problem is agents and players expecting things to be run as they have in the past. News flash...... Not happening in Cleveland any more.

If I sounded like I was being judgmental, I apologize. I rarely take thing personally nor make them personal. We are good?