DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Jared Goff excited about possibility of Browns drafting him at No. 2

Film breakdown with Jared Goff:

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/04/12/jared-goff-california-film-study-nfl-draft

(Click the link for some GIF fun.)

I figured this is as good a spot as any to put this article.

Why it will be Jared Goff, not Carson Wentz, going to Browns at No. 2

JASON LA CANFORA
CBS Sports NFL Insider

I believe Jared Goff will be drafted before Carson Wentz, barring a trade of the first-overall pick. And if new Cleveland Browns offensive coordinator Pep Hamilton gets his way, it will be Goff and not Wentz who that team uses with the second overall selection.

In fact, Goff has many champions within the Browns' organization and although a preponderance of mock drafts will show Wentz being selected with the second-overall pick, I have continued to hear that Goff is actually very well positioned to be Cleveland's guy. There are certainly some splits within the organization -- as is almost always the case in these situations. There are very few once-in-a-generation quarterback prospects to unite an entire franchise in the draft process.

Fact is, many of the Browns scouts, according to numerous league sources, prefer Wentz. But in that organization -- one that just dispatched a half-dozen scouts, many of them very experienced and directly involved in the draft process just three weeks before it begins -- having the scouts in your corner is probably a bad thing. What you will ultimately need is the Moneyball crowd atop the team's football operations department to sign off, and also perpetually-blundering owner Jimmy Haslam (the central figure in the botched decision to draft Johnny Football), and having the coaches on board can't hurt.

And while there is some natural debate as to which of these quarterbacks is best, and some believe the margin is close, sources say Hamilton -- hand-picked by new head coach Hue Jackson (a quarterback guru himself), doesn't see it that way at all. His reports have Goff far and away the better candidate and it wouldn't take a major leap to infer that might just be how Jackson sees things himself. And while things between Jackson and the front office haven't exactly gotten off to a sterling start (as the Browns' free-agent foibles displayed), in this instance he and The Stat Boys might actually be on the same page.

Goff is a California kid who played at Cal -- an area and a program that Jackson knows very well. Hamilton was coaching at Stanford when Goff was being courted by Pac-12 teams and he is very familiar with the kid from the recruiting process. He liked him then and, per his Browns' reports, likes him even more now. Goff is also the preferred choice by many in the analytics community as well. The Browns have spent increasingly more money on the Pro Football Focus resources in the last year, and the PFF crowd prefers Goff. Some of the Browns execs feel precisely the same way, and the fact that Wentz did not face the caliber of competition you would prefer and is a late-bloomer has them concerned.

With the signing of Robert Griffin III -- which I believe will prove to be doomed by about October given the state of this offensive line and the utter lack of anything resembling elite skill players -- the Browns have bought themselves at least a little time to not have to rush their rookie quarterback on the field. And make no mistake, they are perfectly content -- beyond happy, actually -- to see Wentz's name attached to them at every turn. Because, I continue to hear Goff is their guy, and if you think they want Wentz, then you have to jump them to get Wentz and then they have their guy at No. 2.

So, yeah, based on everything I have heard to this point, if the Browns take a quarterback, it's Goff. That's not to say that Joey Bosa and DeForest Buckner are entirely out of the equation either, because they aren't, only it's hard to imagine that the Browns don't take a passer when it's all said and done.

Article

So LaConfora has all this inside information about who the Browns analytics team like best, who Pep likes best, (according to Pep's reports no less), and who Jackson likes best but nobody else in the NFL knows this.

Yeah, people are getting a little too excited over headlines and smokescreens this time of year. It's an annual event.

The Browns did release six scouts from the team last week.

Mind you, this does not mean they were released b/c they were Wentz supporters.

Link

I don't know what, if anything, to take away from this article. He says Goff over Wentz - OK, that's possible. He makes it sound as if the Browns are going QB (Goff) for sure, then hedges his bets at the end. I am uncertain as to whether we now know more...or not.

That's cause he made a lot of that up. He can because he'll never have to prove any of it.

Anyone remember when eotab, 32, and many others called La Canfora a bozo for his takes on the dysfunction w/ certain members of the Brown's FO and coaching staff?

I am to the point that if those guys say something.........it's almost guaranteed the opposite is true. Seriously y'all......tab, 32, Vambo, etc are actually challenging the Browns in who has been wrong the most often.

But hey...........call someone a "bozo" and you appear smart. That's the name of the game w/the Browns and those types of posters.

Oh you are in fine form tonight...

Thanks. I think the same about you every night.

If that article is true, it genuinely gives me hope for this Franchise. Goff is and has been my guy in this draft. Aside from Wentz arm, Goff does everything better from the pocket.

Pretty cool chart:

So the Rams (or us before yesterday) are going to draft a guy who threw 17 TDs in the FCS?

Sounds like a great plan.

To be fair, he was hurt.

Well then we should draft his back up. Who is apparently just as good..

Or the guy that came before him.

Or get Brock Jensen from the CFL.

http://www.gobison.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=4592

http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/brock-jensen-player-stats

It's almost as if NDSU is good no matter who plays QB...

The argument is that Wentz is more physically talented than both Brock Jensen and Easton Stick (what a name!). The fact that NDSU is a juggernaut with a unstoppable system is not up for debate.

jc

FWIW, I've been on record saying Wentz is a 1-1 prospect. I said that when the hype barely started and he was "maybe a 1st rounder". Since then it has become a Wentz vs Goff battle at the top, so I took some time to watch Goff, here's my take

Watched him vs USC and Stanford:

Positives:

- he's a smart QB that can execute every play when allowed to do so
- He's got plenty of arm, mixes his throws at all level of the field well.
- accuracy is ok, but not good imho
- he knows when to step intop the pocket or out, but it affects his performance. He's smart, but he doesn't like to get hit and that's a big problem, which leads to...

Negatives:
- it's really just one big negative to his game, but it will get magnified in the NFL: he struggles MIGHTILY under pressure. He's smart enough to limit those situations. I saw maybe only 5-10 times he was pressured and most of those were just of the "closing pocket" variety which will be about 2/3 of the plays in the NFL. And in every of those attempts something bad happened. A coupl of INTs, one where was REALLY pressured and he just threw the ball to the middle of the field wher only a USC DB was anywhere close

Summary:

Compared to Wentz, it's not close imho. You could make a point that both have about the same arm strength, accuracy and athleticism, though I like Wentz' accuracy and athleticism slightly better. But the separator is their pocket presence. No, let me rephrase it, because Goff's pocket "presence" isn't all that bad, he knows what's happening, but it severly affects his game, whereas it almost doesn't bother Wentz'.

In my opinion, Wentz' will be able to make defenses pay when they rush him. Goff might be more pro ready to execute an offense, but he will look lost when rushed...and we all know that's the first go to for a DC vs a rookie QB.

I really don't dislike Goff, he's a fine QB and better than a lot of recent 1st round QBs, but imho Wentz has clearly the bigger upside to succeed.

Of course, we will take Goff now...and if Wentz goes to the Rams, I'd be "ok" with it, but if they take him over Wentz, I might give up watching football once and for all.

I hear ya.

I had my personal deflategate three times and am out on three strikes looking. First was Winslow over Ben, then trading up for TRich and they lost me when Farmer, Haslam or the homeless guy took Manziel over Bridgewater.

If they take Goff because Wentz is gone, I "might" stomach it, but probably because for the first time in almost a decade I haven't followed the draft and their prospects as a class, so I can't put these two into context of the whole class, just in a heads up comp.

Have my doubts about Goff. He reminds me of Bradford. Looks good, has all the tools, but something's missing and that something is vital.

Just to play devils advocate.


Pro Football Focus
‏@PFF
Carson Wentz had slight edge on Jared Goff in '15 per-snap grading, but Goff led in accuracy % deep (50 to 39) and under pressure (65 to 57)

College stats are probably the most useless around. I very much hope our new FO doesn't fall for those. I remember fighting the 900 college sacks from Jarvis Jones, because they were cheapies and got laughed at labeling him as a weak rusher who doesn't like contact. Ask some Steeler fans about him now. And I'll throw in a mea culpa on that, because I was arguing pro Weeden with stats and him beating all other top QB prospects that draft season. I'll never even look at college stats ever again. Waste of time, really.

Maybe Goff was much better against weaker comp, but I watched both QBs vs their two best opponents and I saw what I saw. Maybe it's too small a sample, we will see, but my main point is their decision making and play making ability in/around the pocket. It's worth mentioning too, that Wentz' pocket collapsed a lot more and quicker, so maybe he was better "trained" to improvise, but his pocket feel combined with his athleticism and physicality is simply special and Goff's play paled in comparison. Again, he's smarter, so maybe he found more dump off options in other games that took off for 40yds. Those are the kind of stats that skew a performance.

Goff isn't horrible by any means, but Wentz offers more.

Isn't pressure pressure? If he is doing well when pressured, doesn't that disagree with your theory that he doesn't do well under pressure?

Jarvis Jones was also a good blitzer, because he applied pressure. But if you looked at him without the stat sheet over your eyes, you saw a bad blitzer.

Seriously, how much football have you watched? There are of different forms of "pressure", it's hard enough to pin down. Goff usually got the ball off quickly which probably boosted his rates there. They had a ton of those plays where they drew designed pressure to fool the defense and then got rid of it quickly, again boosting his stats there.

But when they drew REAL pocket plays and the pressure got to him before it was DESIGNED he threw the ball, he simply sucked. It was shocking and there were maybe not much more than a handful of those in two games, but those will be many more in the NFL and he had like a 50% INT rate on those and close to 100% bad decisions.

That's the problem with college stats. Every bubble screen and fake college play is treated equally to those bust plays, but in the NFL he will be asked to run more of the bad one's and I foresee ugliness on those.

Well Dj, the analytic guys are here now so a lot of guys on the board believe you can find all of the information you need on a stat sheet. We know that's simply not true.

Good point on the designed pressure, I didn't think of that. I am guessing that is included in the stats.

Who said that?

We are allowed to have a dialogue on here without being marginalized.

I read an article that disputed what DjangoBrown said, he pointed something out to me that I had not thought of. Done deal.

In Goff's defense, he might be a victim of his scheme on those plays and the good protection he got too, since the number of quick plays clearly outnumbered the more pro style plays.

He's a bit of a system's QB. Wasn't this even a known California reputation problem at one point? Or am I mixing this up? Telford?

All this to say, he might still be able to learn and improve in those situations, but it will be new and wild for him and could take a lot of time. He is smart enough and has the tools, but not sure he has the guts to be honest and when they come to you like wolves in the NFL it does some damage to your confidence. He seems to feel safer when everything's under control and he can execute a play. We both know that the difference between an average and good QB in the NFL is to produce on both.

It's somewhat ironic that a DivII guy like Wentz got more experience on those situations than a top guy like Goff.

Having typed that out, there are a lot of similarities between Goff and Weeden

Goff is much smarter though and goes through his progressions better/faster and more athletic too. So, I'll stick to my initial Bradford comp...hey, it's a thought process, right? Maybe I just wanted to convince myself that I have learned from my Weeden whiff

That's garbage.

You might be thinking of Tedford (he was the guy who coached Dilfer, Smith, Harrington, Boller, and Rodgers).

Goff played in the Air Raid under Sonny Dykes. He might be a system QB, but he mastered that system. Also, the Air Raid involved a lot more NFL reads than a different type of system like a team like Baylor runs.