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I thought for sure McCown would be terrible and I was wrong about him.
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It's his attitude about it that bothers me. He is acting like Pit is stupid. Pit's opinion was actually open-minded.
Btw--------------I said McCown would be terrible before the season started. I was very down on bringing him in here. I was wrong. Very wrong.
Wow! It's amazing.......I admitted I was wrong and I didn't even lose a limb or anything.
Look man, here is my point. I don't think we should rehash who was right and who was wrong. However, it does get annoying when the same people act like the opinions of others are whacked, have no validity, are fueled by hate or because they are simply "Negative," etc over and over and over even though the past has proven that some people have been fairly good at calling things ahead of time. I find it terribly irritating.
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Look man, here is my point. I don't think we should rehash who was right and who was wrong. However, it does get annoying when the same people act like the opinions of others are whacked, have no validity, are fueled by hate or because they are simply "Negative," etc over and over and over even though the past has proven that some people have been fairly good at calling things ahead of time. I find it terribly irritating.
I find the opposite irritating (replace negative with positive), but I'm trying to deal with it better. I'm not sure anyone's "batting average" is all that great. We just all tend to focus on the hits.
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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May I ask why you ask me questions if you don't want to hear my answers? Just be upfront and disagree w/me. Don't pretend that you are actually interested in my response.
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... I didn't even lose a limb or anything. Only because Lorena got the wrong address... 
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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May I ask why you ask me questions if you don't want to hear my answers? Just be upfront and disagree w/me. Don't pretend that you are actually interested in my response. I do want to hear your answers, but more than that I want to hear the reasoning behind them as well. I still might disagree with you, but I'll also have more to look at and consider. You seem to know a lot, but I feel like you boil it down to a simple statement sometimes which doesn't always hold the nuance that makes it "clear" or that anyone can do much with. I do get frustrated when you answer a question with a question, when I've already answered that question, especially when you avoided my questions. I do get a little carried away with questions at times, but I'm generally trying to illustrate some ill conceived notion when I go rapid fire. On a side note, I'm not even sure where this is coming from, or what it is in reply to.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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... I'm not even sure where this is coming from... Now you've confused us as well...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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Vers asked me about asking questions, but the post he replied to didn't have a question in it. I hadn't asked him a question in this thread in my past several posts at least. I was thinking in the past week.
Clear as mud now?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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j/c
Anybody else seeing a theme building here. Hue getting a second chance at HC. Pep getting another shot at OC...defacto OC. Horton returning. Now RGiii.
There is a statistic, to lazy to look up, that theorizes there is a greater probability of success when a person makes a reattempt he previously was unsuccessful.
All the above mentioned people are most likely done in the NFL if they don't make it work in Cleveland.
I first questioned Browns thinking when they signed RGiii. I look back at Hue Jackson when he became the Browns HC. Hue is hungry and has a big chip on his shoulder.
You get the sense it rubbing off on the others. Sashi taking a jab back at the agent. DePodesta hearing trash talk. Can it be true? Somebody lit a fire under this new FO? Holy smokes we might be seeing signs of attitude directed at something other than the media and fans!
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jc...
Heard the signing of RG3 put in simple terms..NO ONE ELSE WANTED HIM..as the reason the Browns were able to sign RG3.
RG3 was out of options...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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jc...
Heard the signing of RG3 put in simple terms..NO ONE ELSE WANTED HIM..as the reason the Browns were able to sign RG3.
RG3 was out of options... Where did you hear that?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Except that Hue Jackson wasn't really unsuccessful with the Raiders After the 2010 season, Hue Jackson was named Oakland Raiders head coach in 2011, succeeding Tom Cable.[3]
Jackson was fired by the Oakland Raiders on January 10, 2012, after one season as head coach by new general manager Reggie McKenzie. In his lone season as head coach, the Raiders finished with a record of 8–8 and missed the playoffs after starting the season 7–4.[4] Basically, a sick, talentless team went 8-8 in Hue Jacksons first and ONLY year as head coach.. Then Reggie blew up the whole thing. This time, the Browns brought him in as part of the rebuilding process.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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Yeah get in line.... you guys think you are so smart, if somebody puts up logic...they are mental. Laugh all you want.
Note you didn't have an answer so like the internet coward you chose to insult me rather than discuss. Yep the agent is a valid souce. We are just NUTS for being bi-polar yep yep...and when you don't have a logical leg to stand on up comes the coward post.
you need medication...hardy har har
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Daman,
I think there's a bit of revisionist history in terms of Hue's time with the Raiders. Not a lot, but a bit. Hue even mentioned it himself when talking about RG3 that people make mistakes and learn from them, and he made mention of his time in Oakland.
Yes, that team was pretty bad in terms of talent (they were starting the likes of Pryor and McGloin at QB), but there was a whole bunch of disfunction in the org, and Hue was a part of that.
There is no level of sucking we haven't seen; in fact, I'm pretty sure we hold the patents on a few levels of sucking NOBODY had seen until the past few years.
-PrplPplEater
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There's a huge difference in being motivated to achieve greatness and having the ability to achieve greatness. Time will tell.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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Daman,
I think there's a bit of revisionist history in terms of Hue's time with the Raiders. Not a lot, but a bit. Hue even mentioned it himself when talking about RG3 that people make mistakes and learn from them, and he made mention of his time in Oakland.
Yes, that team was pretty bad in terms of talent (they were starting the likes of Pryor and McGloin at QB), but there was a whole bunch of disfunction in the org, and Hue was a part of that. There was huge dysfunction because of the fact that Al Davis died mid-season, and there was no one to take his place in the organization. The front office literally became a giant sucking black hole.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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If I only knew then what I know today...
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so like the internet coward you chose to insult me rather than discuss. How apropos. .and when you don't have a logical leg to stand on up comes the coward post. Less than a year ago you were saying the same things when some of us questioned how good the Browns would be in the upcoming year. You said the same thing when we questioned Farmer. Now, you are throwing him under the bus. You suck as a poster! You get away w/a lot because you are positive and most posters wanna hear the positive crap.
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jc...
Heard the signing of RG3 put in simple terms..NO ONE ELSE WANTED HIM..as the reason the Browns were able to sign RG3.
RG3 was out of options... Where did you hear that? Maybe here? Report: Broncos were concerned about Robert Griffin’s character
Posted by Mike Florio on March 25, 2016, 8:40 AM EDT
The Browns landed quarterback Robert Griffin III in part because no one else wanted him. Specifically, because the Broncos didn’t want him.
Griffin definitely was interested in the Broncos; he grew up a fan of the team. The problem for Griffin is that the coach and G.M. of the Broncos have ties that are too close to Griffin’s first coach in the NFL.
As explained by Mike Klis of 9News.com, the Broncos considered Griffin but ultimately opted not to pursue him.
“[A]fter making a few phone calls, Elway was concerned about Griffin’s character,” Klis writes. “Elway never did express interest in the former Washington quarterback who was the NFL’s Rookie of the Year in 2012 but had several fallouts with Coach Mike Shanahan, offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan and teammates.”
While Klis never makes the express connection between Elway, Broncos coach Gary Kubiak, and Mike Shanahan, that link doesn’t need to made for a Denver audience. Broncos fans know that Elway was the quarterback, Kubiak was the coordinator, and Shanahan was the coach for the team’s back-to-back championships in 1997 and 1998.
Clearly, Elway and Kubiak spoke to Shanahan. Even more clearly, Shanahan had things to say about Griffin that kept the Broncos from even doing an independent tire kicking by bringing Griffin in for a visit.
Whether they made the right call will depend in large part on how Griffin performs for Cleveland — and how whoever becomes the quarterback in Denver performs in 2016.
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Hue had "issues" in Oakland.
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so like the internet coward you chose to insult me rather than discuss. How apropos. .and when you don't have a logical leg to stand on up comes the coward post. Less than a year ago you were saying the same things when some of us questioned how good the Browns would be in the upcoming year. You said the same thing when we questioned Farmer. Now, you are throwing him under the bus. You suck as a poster! You get away w/a lot because you are positive and most posters wanna hear the positive crap. The minute he admitted that sometimes his player evaluations were homer based, and that sometimes only when a player leaves the Browns would he be forthright, was the minute I stopped trusting his opinions on players.
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I don't want people to pile on him. Heck, I thought they would fire on me. However, I just DESPISE when he calls people illogical, cowards, haters, biggest agenda poster on the board, etc, etc........AFTER those same people were right the last several times and he was wrong.
I do NOT want to make this about who is right the most, but man, at least respect our opinions and STOP w/the BS about being illogical, cowards, agenda driven, negative, and haters.
It's freaking sickening!
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Hue had "issues" in Oakland. Yes he did. He came in as OC, was promoted to head coach, and then the team lost Al Davis, and front office direction. Hue did make mistakes. Not surprising under the circumstances,
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Hue had "issues" in Oakland. He definitely did. He was also doing more than he should have. He basically became the CEO of the team mid-season.
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jc...
Heard the signing of RG3 put in simple terms..NO ONE ELSE WANTED HIM..as the reason the Browns were able to sign RG3.
RG3 was out of options... Where did you hear that?
link
Last edited by mac; 03/26/16 07:48 AM.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I'm hoping that Griffin's post rookie year issues were a conglomeration of a bunch of little things. Sometimes a players success isn't entirely dependent on his individual skill. Different people connect with different people. Gruden and Griffin weren't a match. Maybe Hue and Griffin are. Hopefully, we'll be on the right end of a right time, right place situation for once.
Hope obviously doesn't count for much, but if I didn't try to focus on it, I'd probably stop watching football. There are enough negatives in the world to worry about without adding a game to the mix.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
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Grim...I view RG3 as a temporary fix, nothing permanent.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Thanks
I read that this morning long after responding to your post,
Last edited by Damanshot; 03/26/16 08:58 AM.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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He's gone. Agent has to be some part of it all. Not sure what we are fussing with here.
Just seems strange we would not want at least a few of these guys back. Some of what Schwartz did will be missed; but if he was seen as a position where upgrade was needed or desired, it might have become an opportunity of convenience. Pulled it or not, that contract sailed. Didn't take long. Moving forward . . . ?
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Nice sig, Gamebreaker! Enjoy it.
"Every responsibility implies opportunity, and every opportunity implies responsibility." Otis Allen Glazebrook, 1880
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Some of what Schwartz did will be missed; but if he was seen as a position where upgrade was needed or desired, it might have become an opportunity of convenience.
Cam did play some OG for the Browns, starting 4 games and the results were no better than average. Many expected more from a #19, first round draft choice. I look for Erv to be given the starting job at center or rt, based on his hard work in the off season.
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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The problem I see is that too many fans are basing things on hope, rather than anything they've actually seen.
And you know what they say. Hope springs eternal.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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I prefer this one;
To see hope among the hopeless,is truely the biggest heart break of all
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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You left off a line from that last verse: "I've seen the flame of hope among the hopeless And that was truly the biggest heartbreak of all That was the straw that broke me open" From Bruce Cockburn the author of the song "Last Night of the World" from which that line came... "In the last verse I was thinking specifically of refugees I had encountered back in 1983 in the south of Mexico. They had fled terrible things, were being starved and dying of disease. It couldn't get much worse, yet they faced their plight with discipline and this eternal flame of hope. It was such a poignant thing to witness. It made a huge impression on me. Whenever I get the feeling that things in life are hopeless, I only have to think of that. If those people could have hope in their circumstances it's ridiculously decadent for us not to have it. In that sense it 'broke me open' - put a big crack in the cynicism and lowered expectations that we grow up with in a culture like ours."So while one could interpret that verse as it's heartbreaking to see hope among the hopeless, the real meaning behind it is: How dare we not have hope when people in much worse circumstances than we can even imagine, find a way to have it. How cruel it is to make fun of someone for having hope because of the cynicism and lowered expectations that we've grown to accept and embrace in this culture because, Browns. Have our attitudes and behavior characteristics have been molded such that we goad those who have the courage to hope.
#gmstrong
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cynicism and lowered expectations that we've grown to accept and embrace in this culture Depending upon your viewpoint, this could be a very misleading statement. Many look at our track record, the talent on our roster and the direction the team seems to be headed as of now. They see we signed a QB who has looked putrid at beast with the exception of his rookie year. While you use the word cynicism, one could easily call it an informed decision based on circumstances. That doesn't mean your expectations are lowered, it means you have a firm grasp on things as they are.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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So then you're right which invalidates any other point of view.
#gmstrong
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So then you're right which invalidates any other point of view. No, but he has a right to express his opinion w/out being called illogical, a coward, a hater, a Negative Nancy, etc...
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I did none of those. Some do.
#gmstrong
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So then you're right which invalidates any other point of view. No, but he has a right to express his opinion w/out being called illogical, a coward, a hater, a Negative Nancy, etc...
I know how long it took the Browns to finally build an offensive line that was not considered a joke..
I wonder if others know how long it took?...vers, I know you know..let's see if anyone else knows?
I find it interesting how some are willing to point to the offensive line and make the comment that the team was 3-13, how good could the Oline be?...how good could Mack and Schwartz be if the Browns went 3-13?
As bad as the Browns were in 2015, why would some outside analysts point to the Browns offensive line unit and consider them to be one of the better Olines in the NFL?
I believe the Browns Harvard educated front office puts a very low priority on the offensive line, evidence by their lack of concern over losing 40% of the Oline to free agency.
The big business brains look at Erving and since the Browns used a first round draft pick on him last season, he must be good enough to start, right? Instead of RG3 trying to revitalize his career behind a solid offensive line that can allow him time to drop back in the pocket and make his reads, RG3's first thought behind the Browns new Oline might be, "running for your life"..he better have his cleats laced up tight.
The thought of a franchise drafting a QB at #2 and "purposely" putting him behind an Oline that is suspect and a question mark..I can't help but say out loud, what the hell are these guys thinking?
The fact is, they are not thinking in terms of "football". I believe all of us know what the Harvard bunch was thinking with their Oline moves...most just don't want to admit it or say it. With the Oline moves the business boys have made so far, it must be pointed out that they ultimately decided on the "cheapest" options.
Imagine that, the business boys front office making a "business first" decisions. I'm sure businessman owner Haslam liked the moves.
It took this franchise a long time to realize the offensive line is the most important "unit" of the football team...but it only took our Harvard educated business boys one free agency period to destroy nearly half of the Oline.
I'm being "realistic", with my focus on "football". I know there are good reasons why some franchise do all they can to keep their Oline unit together..it is the most important unit of a football team.
With the Browns Oline being much less of a priority for our business educated front office, how much will it hurt the team and what could possibly go wrong?
jmho...mac
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Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont..:.Re: Browns Big Brain front
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