DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Not the Titans. It's The Browns...

You hit the nail on the head.

I can't think of a dumber move except maybe signing Kaepernick, and the Browns were in the running for both.

At this point, there is no shame in jumping ship if any fan wants to do it. There is loyalty and there is flat out nuts.

Not if you need a QB or protection for your QB or suffer pressuring the opposing QB or can't stop the opposing running game.

If you have a QB and can do those other things then go ahead, take a WR.

Even with the signing of RG3 we should still draft a QB with the 2nd pick. RG3 may have something left he may not but we need to develop our own QB. We could end up with 2 good qb's and may be able to trade one away in the future. We can only hope.

If you have all of those things you won't be picking in the Top 5.

To me picking up RG3 is ALMOST like saying they don't view the QB's in this draft worth it.

Perhaps a locker room cancer QB who is made out glass will work out, but the fact the FO may believe they now have options other than drafting one of the top two makes the signing not simply a bad signing, it makes it absurd.

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/713056673410203652

To me it's saying that they don't think that there is a QB who is ready to start on day 1 .... and they don't want to force a rookie onto the field before he's ready. (and that they feel they can get more out of McCown in a trade than on the field)

Exactly, having those things is what keeps you out of the top 5. The Browns don't have any of those things which is why they are picking at #2 overall. If they hope to win going forward they needs those things.

A WR is not going to help the win/loss record if we have no QB or have one but can't protect him, or can't pressure the opposing QBs, or can't stop the run or defend against the passing attack.

Granted, we need better WRs. But we need better everything. We need to get, at least, competitive in all phases first. Then we can upgrade at WR to put us over the top. The WR position is not the place to start the rebuild. A WR won't put us over the top nor quickly make us competitive.

When Josh Gordon played only 14 games 2013 he set the NFL record for being the first WR in NFL History to have two back-to-back 200+ yard games, (we lost both of those games). He went on to finish as the NFL leader in receiving yards with 1646 yards, (he also had 9 TDs), and was voted First-Team All-Pro alongside future HOFer Calvin Johnson.

With that caliber of WR on the roster the Browns finished the season 4-12. The WR didn't really help the win/loss record because we were missing those other things I mentioned.

So no, at this time with the Browns in the state they're in I would not take a WR at #2. I can't imagine him doing better than Josh Gordon did in 2013 and that could again lead us to 4 wins, which we've done plenty of times without a top WR.

I have NO idea whether or not the Browns intend to draft a qb or not w/their second pick, but why did you post that? There isn't a quote from the Browns.

And before you answer with: "Schefter is usually right," please consider he also said: players view Cleveland like college, a four-year stop and he also said said that teams and agents don't like dealing w/the Browns because there are too many cooks in the kitchen.

Football is the ultimate team game. I think too many people make quantitative statements about which positions lead to wins and which do not.

One can always find examples of players that provide evidence of their theories.

I noticed that no one responded to my explanation of the vertical and horizontal boards on another thread. Not sure if the explanation gets in the way of their draft predictions or it simply wasn't argumentative enough?

I find it hard to believe that a team so heavily invested in analytics is going to not use the vertical and horizontal boards and simply draft/not draft a guy solely because of his position.

I suppose you're right about that which positions lead to wins and which do not. I just think the first thing you need is a QB. If you don't see one you like, and in this case Browns specific, I think the defense needs a ton of help at so many positions. I can't pretend to know exactly which position would make the most immediate improvement. I just think defense needs a lot of help before investing in a WR.

I didn't respond to the V&H boards because I remember your explanation of that a couple of years ago so it wasn't new to me and I didn't feel I had anything to add or argue.

I agree with your last line and think that the FO will use V&H boards rather than drafting solely because of position, (QB being the exception and only if he's deemed worthy). Boards set up that way make too much sense for me to think anyone does it any differently. That said, I think some teams get off track for any number of reasons and don't always follow through with their plan.

He basically said not to draft a WR unless all other positions on your team are set.

How many teams that are set everywhere but WR are picking in the Top 5?

I would buy into that if they had signed him long term. But a two year, back up money contract doesn't mean anything. Well, it may mean they wish to go younger at the back up QB position considering the age of McCown.

RG3 received back up money and a back up two year deal. People can read more into that if they like, but a deal like that means nothing in regards to the draft IMO.

IMHO we still need to draft Goff or Wentz at #2.

I'm not sure if I would use the word "need". If we actually look at need, we have a lot of need at several positions. Now if Hue and the cooks believe either of these two QB's worth the #2 pick in the draft, I believe they will draft them. And if that's the direction they go, I'll fully support that. I actually like Wentz.

But I also like other players at #2 in this draft. Usually I pick a player and pimp him during the draft. This year we have so many needs, even more than we had heading into the off season, that I see several ways they could go that will help our team.

If they're not 100% sold on either of these QB's, it's my hope they move in another direction.

But it does seem to me that some of our fans think we should wait for the next Andrew Luck before we draft a QB. If that were the case, waiting to be in that position with that type of QB at the top, it could be 30 or 40 years before we draft a QB at the top of the draft. Not a very practical approach to me.

Only after we have a team full of 52 other Pro Bowlers though..

I don't get ahead of myself in the college ranks like Clevesteve and Deputy Do ... Wonder if these guys could shed some light on next year's QB class .. I am not sold on a QB as a top ten pick this Draft .. ( Beats a dead horse )

And have gone two rounds deep into the playoffs.

I've been expecting them to draft a top QB with all the tools since Sipe left. I'm still waiting. I'll believe it when I see it. Even if they do, I'll be wondering how they'll mismanage the situation, and eventually ruin the once bright prospect. I can only hope, for now, that we reach that point.

This is the best information we have. Schefter knows more than all of us.

Also, just because he passes along negative information about the team, why does that mean his other information is invalid?

Well I certainly know I'll be highly disappointed if we take a WR in the top 5.

I never tried to insinuate that his information was invalid.

I am just saying that it appears to be one-sided thinking when he is said to be "well informed" on one subject and a "bozo" on two others.

You understand my line of thinking on that, right?

I never considered him a bozo. But yes, I understand what you are thinking.

When I read sentences like those my curiosity is, who is doing the "expecting"?

I assume a lot, so here I expect that those doing the expecting are not the Browns but rather the talking heads and others around the league of whom many have differing opinions.

Having the NFL Network playing in the background I've heard everything from RG3 will never pan out because of his inability play from the pocket to, Hue can get him playing at a high level again to, the Browns no longer need to take a QB at #2 to, the Browns still must to take a QB at #2 and different reasons for all of the above.

So again, (and I'm not really asking you unless you want to respond), who is doing the expecting when Schefter writes those two sentences? I'm not saying it's incorrect but there are a lot of people doing a lot of expecting, just like on here, and any one of them can turn out to be right at the end of the day.

Let's be real, here.

No way the Browns leaked information to Shefter about them taking a qb at 2. LOL............not plausible.

I am NOT saying that they won't take a qb at 2, but his comments are either pure speculation or were planted deceptively by the Browns.

Our head coach is the Julian Assange of the NFL. The leaks will be plentiful.

Now is the time to being doing that.

Really....I get your free spirit, drug use, but we just got rid of JF...you want Bosa, of the RAVE mentality....JMHO...a HARD pass....let some other fools take him.....GO Browns!!!!

JC

For all of you that criticize the analytics approach, here is my thought on it. This isn't all about money as many are espousing. Because of analytics I think we are much more likely to pick a QB at number 2 than not.

My belief is that analytics will reveal that having a top Qb makes it much more likely that you will win a superbowl and much more likely to be a perennial winner than if you don't have a top Qb.

Agreed. I wouldn't be surprised we have our eye on a specific QB, and if the QB we want isn't there, we'll jump on Tunsil (which wouldn't be a bad consolation prize at all). Then we'll look into trading up into the 1st round to get Lynch or waiting for the 2nd to get Cook.

I agree. It isn't about money. It is about value. Unlike baseball, football requires it's teams to spend a minimum amount of player salary.

There is no real penalty for not spending to the minimum salary floor.

The Wentz fit is there. He can sit for a bit. If McCown goes, we still have some backups. We blew it all up a good deal again. The Cardale experiment? Not that curious to game this draft for him. Like him, just not so much. I do not like trading back down and up. Take Wentz or Bosa.

I have favored Wentz at two, and maybe getting back up for 3, 4, or 5. Be sure of a few picks in this draft. Two or three in the top 10 may not be unreasonable. We have above average need, therefore average picks up in the draft. Hope we have better choices made for this season, even if green picks.

The correct term is blow hard.



...debatable phrase.



OK. ...only since you have done it to others who happen not to agree with your dogma.



...perhaps advice you should give to yourself.

More than 3 weeks more until we get our answers on real draft...I want Wentz, but wonder if the new regime is blowing lots of smoke and will trade down for more picks AND possible more impact players...we need them...GO Browns!!!!