DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign Robert Griffin III

You forgot the Cowboys.

I have already supported the signing of RGIII. I'm sorry if it bothers you that I actually consider the opinions of those who don't see it the same way I do.

Oh, the horror.............

Either that or a show me deal. Not saying either way, just that it's one of the two.

My thoughts too

The Cowboys need a successor for Romo, not a starting QB. Jerry Jones has said he expects a handful more years out of Romo. That would put RG3 in his 30s when he'd take the reins. Plus, there were rumors that they were interested in RG3. They probably just didn't want to pay him as much as the Browns ended up offering to be a back up.

Considering others opinions doesn't bother me. The way you go about it does.

Feel free to feel aggrieved by that. It's not my intention, but you're entitled to your opinion.

I think that you are full of crap regarding "considering others opinions." Your very rigid in your opinions and being right matters more to you than learning. I had high hopes for you at the beginning. But, you are just another know-it-all that does not want to learn.

Feel free to feel aggrieved by that. It's not my intention, but you're entitled to your opinion.

Enjoy a well-deserved break. Apparently know-it-all is name calling and a ban-able offense.

J/C,

Best case scenario is he (RGIII) becomes the next Steve Young.

I think we have the right coach in Hue Jackson to facilitate such a turn around.

Wow. Are you hoping I get suspended?

Robert Griffin III is a Brown, and his new coach is ready to get to work.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/26/robert-griffin-rg3-cleveland-browns-nfl-new-york-times-concussion


Of all the things that surprised me about Robert Griffin III signing with Cleveland, this might have been the topper: New coach Hue Jackson has totally bought into The New Browns Way. The Moneyball thing, the Harvard-educated front office, the experimental ways the moribund Browns are using to try to escape awfulness. While lifetime baseball analytics guy Paul DePodesta has heard sniggering from NFL people about his “chief strategy officer” role with the Browns, lifetime football guy Jackson is, at least for now, a fan.

“I wouldn’t trade our process for any I’ve seen since I’ve been in the NFL,” Jackson said Saturday from Ohio. “I don’t do anything without us all talking things through. They don’t do anything with talking to me. Paul’s input was very valuable in the process of signing Robert. He was good about the psyche of an athlete coming back from injuries or adversity, and about the fact that it’s a people business. We all talk football, football, football, but this is a people business foremost. And all of us in the process here are joined at the hip.”

The Browns have more question marks than 10 teams in the league combined. We’ll have plenty of time to address those, but for now, the signing of the wayward Griffin leads the pack. It’s not a bad idea. The Browns will pay Griffin $6.75 million this year on, basically, a show-me contract, and the team can choose whether to exercise a second year of the deal worth $7.5 million if Griffin’s any good this season. It’s a good risk to take. Griffin is 26 and was a healthy scratch for all of 2015. He ought to have a chip the size of LeBron James on his shoulder, and the starting job will be his to lose.


When Jackson watched Griffin work out recently, the first-year coach was convinced Griffin can make all the throws. When Jackson spent time with Griffin watching tape (with associate head coach Pep Hamilton in there too), and then with Griffin man-to-man, he was convinced Griffin was worth the chance. What, really, did the Browns have to lose? They still can draft a quarterback of the future with the second overall pick (or the 32nd, or the 65th), and if Griffin stumbles, it only costs them one year when the quarterback of the future wasn’t on the roster anyway … and when Colin Kaepernick would have cost a third/fourth-round pick plus $11.2 million in 2016 pay.
Griffin was a pretty easy call.



“When I looked in his eyes,” said Jackson, “I see a young man who’s been kicked around a little bit. When we talked, there was a humility to him. He took ownership of what happened to him, of what he needs to work on to be good. He knows he played a big part in what happened. There are still questions to address and work to be done. He knows. In this league, you don’t always get another chance like this. Here’s one.”

What messed up Griffin, I will always believe, is not the problems he had with coach Mike Shanahan or offensive coordinator Kyle Shanahan in Washington. Wrecking his knee at the end of his rookie year killed him, because it badly stunted his development. Remember: The Washington offense was cobbled together (with the zone read) in 2012, and the Shanahans felt it wasn’t sustainable long-term to expose Griffin to such punishment. The 2013 offseason and preseason was going to be used to teach Griffin the full Shanahan offense, but because he spent it in a rehabbing sprint to get healthy enough to play by September 2013, he couldn’t spend nearly enough time in the classroom to learn a new way to play. Then new coach Jay Gruden fell in love with Kirk Cousins, and here we are. “That probably played a huge role in what happened with his development,” Jackson said.

A month from today, the Browns will have a chance to draft a quarterback to go head-to-head with Griffin for the next year or two. Jackson was coy when I asked him if the team still could pick a quarterback high, but there’s a good chance he doesn’t know yet what the first or second rounds hold.

“I don’t think signing Robert says anything about what we’ll do in the draft,” Jackson said. “You never know. You can never have enough good players.”

In Cleveland, a few would be nice. You can tell the Browns are optimistic about Griffin, but this franchise was optimistic about Tim Couch and Brady Quinn and Brandon Weeden. And Johnny Manziel. They’ve had 24 starting quarterbacks in the past 18 seasons. So pardon Brownsland for eye-rolling Griffin. “He has to earn the right to be our guy,” Jackson said.

The bar is low.

I got a 3 day ban for using know it all last week. Just saying.

And I agree if RG3 has some success that maybe it could be tough to resign him, especially if we draft a QB at #2 this year. But at least by signing him to a 2 year deal, if he starts next year, and all or most of 2017 he'll become a free agent. At that point some QB needy team will sign RG3 for a king's ransom and low and behold the Browns at least wind up with a 3rd round compensatory draft pick to help continue to build the dynasty these men intend to build.

It's brilliant. I was trying to explain to a friend this is a low risk move but he insists that RG3 is high risk. I don't see it, this franchise can go nowhere but up.

I think signing RGIII was a good move. There isn't much risk and the reward could be high.

However, I don't like misleading statements. RGIII started for Gruden. He wasn't just cast aside immediately because Gruden "fell in love with Kirk Cousins."

RGIII was horrid as a starter that year under Gruden. The same Gruden who was a "QB Whisperer" for his development of Andy Dalton. [Gee, that sounds familiar for some reason.]

I think Gruden "fell in love with Kirk Cousins" because RGIII stunk and Cousins played better.

I support the signing of RGIII, but I hope people keep it real.

No doubt cousins outplayed rg3 and earned the job

But I wonder why. What happened to rg3? Was it injury. A scheme that did not fit his skill set. His inability / refusal to work and get better

Something had to happen to change a rookie of the year into scraps

Just asking cause I really don't know

I gave my thoughts on his poor play in the previous RGIII thread, but I will do a condensed version here.

The injury was significant in that RGIII was exposed when he had to make plays in the pocket. His inability to read defenses was a killer for him. He really struggled going through his progressions. He was very much a one-read type of qb. He would then panic in the pocket, and instead of running like he did in the past, he would drift into needless sacks.

He threw his offensive line under the bus. He went behind his coaches' backs to the owner. He had that sense of entitlement and soon he was not very popular w/his teammates.

I hope he has been humbled enough to know that he can no longer be a prima donna. I do think he can make all the throws. I think he can be good on roll outs and boots.

I still question if he'll ever be good at reading defenses, especially post-snap.

New to the board. I live in the DC area and may have some insight about the Griffin situation.

I read the Peter King article and don't find it misleading at all. In fact I think its more accurate then most of the media quick sound bite narratives given about Griffin in Washington.

Washington hired a HC in Jay Gruden that moved on from "developing" Griffin in 5 games. Think about that for a second. Brand new HC hired ostensibly to groom (at the time) the franchise QB but benched and by all accounts was done with him in only 5 games. Griffin started 2 games was injured; returned from injury then was benched after 3 games.

The little known or nationally discussed feeling in Washington was that Jay, always wanted Kirk Cousins from day 1. And just so I'm not talking out of turn, this from Jon Gruden proved prophetic:
http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/3208/gruden-weighs-in-on-rg-iii-shanahans

John Keim: There’s a lot of talk about whether this staff should get a fifth year. What do you think?

Jon Gruden: I know Mike’s as good as there is in football. Be careful what you ask for. ... You change coaches, that means you’re changing offense. A new coach might change quarterbacks too.

----------------------------------------------
I don't want to stat you to death; but just take a look at Griffin's play and stats from that season and you tell me if they match the perception.

I think Peter King is keeping it as real as he can without offending the insular NFL coaching network.

Where does this perception come from? Again, living in the DC area none of the above is true.

There was a lot of slanted reports leaked to the press by Mike Shanahan on his way out of town that persist. Its part of the reason Mike doesn't have a job today. There is on air personality (Cooley) that shoots from the hip and has been publically shot down (which is rare btw) by Griffin's current and former teammates. Brian Orakpo even threatened to beat Cooley up. No exaggeration. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/brian-orakpo-redskins-react-chris-cooley-rg3-comments-030916

You just joined the board and you are already calling me a liar?

Nice..........

Interesting take edromeo.

Thanks.

And welcome to the board

Gruden came from the arena league. QB has to be a quick decision maker and that was never RG3 but that is a top attribute of Kirk cousins. It is why many people on this board really wanted the kid when he came out. I thought he was a small ball QB but he has actually physically gotten bigger and stronger.

Still more of the small ball QB but he has a much better arm than he had when drafted. He worked on his weaknesses. RG3 has just been working on getting healthy.

Now Griffin going to work with Tom House is a major step in the right direction for him. The main thing for this scheme is accuracy. He has to be able to hit the open guy, if he cant do that, he will not be here on opening day. It is that simple.

I hope we can add some picks move down and add a Laquon Treadwell to this offense. Josh Gordon, Treadwell, Hartline and a Duke Johnson would be something special.

Welcome aboard, edromeo. Thanks for another angle on RG Trey. Not sold on him; don't see him as a qualified "mentor" for Wentz if he ends up here. Much to prove IMO.

Keep us updated.

RG3 is a great athlete, and has a powerful arm, but his decision making is poor. His decision making reminds me of Mike Vick's at the same stage in his career, but RG3 is not quite as fast or prolific a runner as Vick was.

Now that RG3 has injured his knee twice, I am hoping he does not solely rely on his running ability to stay in the NFL, or else he won't make it past the preseason. He will have to learn how to make better decisions with the ball and run an offense other than the read option.

People forget during his rookie year, there was another rookie phenom that benefitted from the read option which was Alfred Morris and he contributed to a lot of RG3's success his rookie year. Those two together left defenses confused on which one they should key on, but they figured it out eventually. Defenses will always figure out an offense, so the offense has to be able to be adjusted to confuse the defense again, or else be prepared to lose.

If RG3 can command the offense, stay healthy, and win the locker room; he could very well be the opening day starter.

Good question and the answer isn't simple but i'll try to make view as concise as possible.

I agree that Cousins outplayed Griffin in the long run. And fans of the Burgundy and Gold should be feel very lucky and thankful that he did work out because otherwise losing Griffin would really hurt.

Initially in 2014, Kirk really didn't outplay Griffin. The difference between Kirk and Griffin after Jay's rookie season was slim, both QBs were benched for performance. However; prior to Gruden's arrival Griffin's production had been very good and Kirk's dismal. But, Kirk had much more experience playing in rhythm drop back passing offense and that was the scheme Jay ran and was able to close the gap in terms of production. But there wasn't the huge delta in there performance despite the fact that Kirk had more experience in that style.

I think the main issue came down to what type of offense does Jay want to run? Which harkens back to Jay's decision to draft Dalton over Kaepernick. Did Jay want to build an offense around Griffin or did Jay want to coach his system? The QB most ready to allow Jay to coach his scheme without adjustments was Kirk.

The rest of the narratives surrounding Griffin is a mix of media drama using Griffin's popularity as click bait.

Hello and welcome to the board.

As far as RG3
Here's a little light reading.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...-032315004.html

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-to-take-blame/

http://www.news-herald.com/article/HR/20131121/NEWS/131129841

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...dnt-stay-humble

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...-pocket-passer/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...snyder-says-no/

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdo...13377--nfl.html

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/8/31/923784...ched-washington

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...en-dislike-rg3/

People didn't like Jerry Rice either, but the difference was they won rings together. People didn't like Michael Jordan also won many rings. People respected Bob Knight, but I bet he wasn't well liked either.

If you lose and people don't like you then that's when it seems to be an issue. When the Redskins were winning I bet no one was all in the media saying oh I don't like RG3, only when they started losing, so take that with many grains of salt.

I've already said that I don't think RG3's tude will be a problem here. I just don't want to pretend that he doesn't have one.

The biggest problem for RG3 is going to be making reads from the pocket. Even if he does regain some of his running speed, if he tries to do what he did his rookie year he won't last long.

Welcome ed. Thanks for posting.

Also, thanks for backing up what you say.

That 5 games thing is something I wasn't aware of.

As for your next post basically saying that indeed, it wasn't true that his (RG3) teammates didn't like him is a take we've not heard around here. In fact all we seem to hear is how awful he was to his team mates.

Again, thanks

Did you know that if you say the word "orange" real slow, that it sounds exactly like the word "gullible?"

Thank you for the welcome. And thanks for posting those articles. Those articles are an excellent illustration of the media surrounding Griffin. None of those articles/"reports" are new for me.

I would caution be careful what you read. In today's (Washington especially) sports media cycle the aim is rarely accuracy but clicks. And more often then not saying something, especially negative true or not true about Griffin produced a ton of hits.

I doubt the board wants me to post counter point articles for each one. Just trying to give background to decide for yourselves whether he threw his teammates under the bus etc....


o the letter you posted was in Griffin locker room the entire season and several other players have that same letter in their lockers (you can look it up if slow inclined)

o Consider the source.
Mike Shanahan was on a mission to blameshift his poor record and subsequent firing on Griffin and Snyder. It is well known that he is Sally Jenkins source, and leaking to the media is one of the reason Mike Shanahan is not coaching today

o Often time players were used in articles against Griffin that were surprised to find out about it:

Moss-“I read a quote and it said, ‘Moss says RGIII needs to take more responsibility for losses,’ ” Moss said. “That never came out of my mouth. I said that if I’m put in the situation, as a leader, I will stand up and say, ‘me, I,’ and that’s what I said.”

o And the now infamous not taking blame, actual presser comments:

“All of the sacks are on me. Period. We’re 3-7, and everybody in this room knows that, and everybody in that locker room knows that. We can’t do what 3-7 football teams do. We can’t throw knives and stab each other in the back. I think we have good people in our locker room, men of God that are going to stick together and stay strong. So when you ask me that question, and I say all of the sacks are on me, it’s because I’m looking myself in the mirror and saying, I can do better. I have to do better. I need every man in that locker room, players and coaches, to look themselves in the mirror and say, ‘What can I do better?'”
-----------------------------
Then Griffin was ASKED:

On the difference from 2012 to now in his performance:

“We were playing good team ball. It takes 11 men. It doesn’t take one guy, and that’s proven. If you want to look at the good teams in this league and the great quarterbacks, the Peytons and the Aaron Rodgers, those guys don’t play well if their guys don’t play well. They don’t. We need everybody. I need every one of those guys in that locker room, and I know they’re looking at me saying the same thing.”
----------------------------------

Griffin's teammates:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-s...-book-on-rgiii/

Kirk Cousins:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/dc-s...rt-griffin-iii/





I will say this, I'm sure there are players that dislike Griffin, just like I'm sure that there are players that dislike insert QB name here but the difference with Griffin was (1) there were coaches that didn't like him and were leaking to media (which in most cities gets a coach in deep trouble see Chicago) (2) having a report about Griffin created enough hits and calls to fill any slow media day.

But, enough of that I want to talk some Xs and Os stuff.

This is an interesting nugget I didn't know about.

So basically you are calling me (and anyone that read those posts without an agenda) gullible and the new guy, edromeo, a liar.

Does that about sum it up?

What's all the fuss? RG3 will be a backup to McCown and signed to a contract with backup pay.

Opps forgot where I was posting this for a second......Never mind.

Pretty much

Once again, where was all of this when the Redskins were winning? Why did it take them losing for people to start chiming in?

Many star players are not popular with their teammates, but only when they start losing do they start seeing the repercussions of that. Winning silences everything. Losing brings out the scapegoats.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/145481...s-letter-locker

The letter was put up in Griffin's locker earlier this season, according to ESPN's John Keim.
---------------------------------

Wining spackles over a lot of cracks... losing widens them.

Very true, but the fact of whether or not RG3's teammates liked him or not wasn't the largest "crack" there. It's not why the Redskins lost or won, or not a good enough reason why the Browns shouldn't give him a shot at redemption.

If anything can he learn an offense other than the read option? That's my big question. Of course he's going to wow you (Hue) with his workouts. He's a stellar athlete.

He countered your points. Nothing more, and nothing less.

Just because someone counters your arguments doesn't mean they are out to persecute you.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/JosinaAnderson/status/714475447069892609

Trying to make friends. Smart move.

My apologies didn't mean to add/create drama and still not quite sure how I called anyone a liar. Was just trying to be accurate is all, my apologies for adding to the Griffin drama...enough of that...lets talk Xs and Os......lets talk football!

Griffin is not a finished QB. He was transitioning into running a rhythm drop back west coast offense from a read-option hybrid offense the previous seasons and a spread-zone read offense in college.

I think right now, if you plugged him into an offense like the Bills he would put up numbers at least as good if not better then Tyrod.
I also believe that Griffin could quickly match and eventually surpass Alex Smith production if he were placed in KC's offense.

I think if Griffin is asked to operate a pure rhythm drop back WCO without movement i.e. bootlegs, waggles or read-option it will take him time to make the transition. And during that transition he's going to hold the ball and take sacks.

Griffin's 2 biggest issues on the field for me was not trusting what he saw; which I think was the cause of pocket issues and sacks. When Griffin trusts what he sees he's like a jugs machine. The ball comes out with velocity and accuracy. When Griffin is unsure he holds the ball and starts drifting around in the pocket. Another issue was his carriage of the ball while scrambling. Griffin had a tendency to drop the ball out of throwing position and would hold the ball like a loaf of bread which caused some fumbles and more importantly slowed the time it took to make a throw while on the run. Lastly, Griffin while very fast, is a straight line runner without little 'juking' ability. He doesn't often attempt to make people miss, he usually attempts to out run them and consequently takes way to many hits. Griffin still needs to learn to protect himself better while running and learning when/how to slide/dive to avoid contact.

I'm excited to see how this plays out. I think Hue is a great coach, not just from Xs and Os but from managing people. I also think Pep Hamilton and Al Saunders are good offensive minds. Ideally I think an offense similar to Chip Kelly's concepts would work best but I could also see Griffin having success in offenses similar to Dolphins, Seattle, Panthers and eventually the Bengals.