DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum RGIII Continued

Hogan is an intriguing prospect. I think he has a good arm. He is really tough. Has good size. Throws on the run. Stands in the pocket. Excellent leader.

On the negative side, his mechanics are a mess. Long wind-up/delivery. Funky.......kinda like Phillip Rivers. Terrible footwork. Struggles w/accuracy.

He has a bad junior campaign. If I am not mistaken, his father was ill and ended up passing away. Not totally sure if he died or not, but I heard it really affected Kevin. He played much better as a senior.

I read where he is supposed to be a late-round pick. I think he would be a wise choice if he was still available later in the draft.

They are really going to have to work on his mechanics. They are a mess. But, that's something that is coachable.

I really feel like the Browns will draft 2 quarterbacks this draft, one early, and one later. I would love to get Hogan around the 5th. He always seemed like a good prospect, and like you said, he will need some refining, but most do that late. If we draft Wentz or Goff at 2, or even Lynch or Cook at 32, and then grab Hogan later, I feel like we would have a pretty good shot at stabilizing or QB position for a while, especially if Griffin can at least hold down the fort for 8+ games.

j/c:

To me, RG3's demeanor in the press conference and the way he answered the questions makes me feel (after talking with Hue and Co.)that he knows a QB is being drafted (potentially #2) and his work in Cleveland is possibly more about re-establishing himself for his next possible employer.

Think it was more that he was trying to convey to the media that he is a team player, and will do what is asked of him.

Memphis, The media have persecuted RG3 so him being very focused and specific in his wording isnt the least bit surprising. I think we will draft a QB but likely not until 3rd or later. prescott in the 3rd is what I expect at this point.

one of questions i keep asking myself is this:

is Goff or Wentz more talented than RG3? even after RG3's injuries? cause they guy had a complete year off and is back to healthy shape.

if they are the same talent level, then why bother drafted any of those 2? RG3 is only 26.

what good is the QB when we constantly have zero playmakers for the QB to even get the ball to?

we need playmakers. you guys on the board constantly say we didn't lose games because of the QB position.

and i agree with that. we need offensive weapons and defensive murderers.

we need to get Bosa at 2, and an offensive playmaker at 32. i believe that Hue can have RG3 back to pro bowl form. but it's not gonna happen with guys with our current group of WR/TE.

we have a TE, but right now we still got 2 guys who are 5'7-8. is hartline still on the team?

we have no clue about Pryor, and Gordon is a crap shoot if they will even reinstate him.

So your option would be to either: draft Ramsey/Bosa or trade down and draft WR

What do you mean by talent?

Yes

I guess I mean skill set and mechanics.

Gets rid of the ball would sayGoff gets it out quick and WEntz and RG3 about even
Accuracy RG3 wins at all levels
Arm RG3 WEntz Goff
Mobility RG3 Wentz Goff

this is why I dont think we are drafting a QB high and again, Hue loves the kid. I think we go into the season with RG3 as starter, McCown as backup and a prescott or Jones mid to late in draft someone to develop as your incase of emergency break glass.

BTW there isnt much difference in age between RG3 and Wentz as well.

j/c

Back a few pages there was some discussion of whether Jackson would compromise (my word) his offense for Griffin. Just as a practical matter here's why I don't think he will. Griffin's tenure in DC was affected negatively in part because he had to play in a zone-read heavy offense with injuries and stunted growth as a QB. He wouldn't be looking for a situation that offered more of the same. I think RG3 is attracted to what Jackson offers in terms of tutelage so that he can demonstrate that he can be successful in a pro-style offense. Good, bad or otherwise Hue Jackson impresses me as someone with a healthy dose of ego. His confidence in his own abilities doesn't lend itself to copying another coaches approach.Teams have tape of RG3 operating the simplistic 2012 Washington offense. They are familiar with how to defend it. Jackson will want to take advantage of Griffin's athleticism but still stretch the field horizontally and vertically as was discussed in the article on NFL passing concepts. I also think Jackson will want a single scheme that all of his QBs can operate within.

skip is hating hard.

Man.............those two guys drive me nuts.

They are literally the worst.

LOL...........gave me a headache.

They plan their show so that each one takes an opposing side. That's what it's about. That said, I agree with you. Annoying.

Thanks.

So, this confirms a lot...Hogan is a work in progress and will need time. Do we wait later than 65 to take somebody like him and then let him work with McCown and Griffin? Or, do we go with a Wentz/Goff? Lynch/Prescott/Cook/Hogan/Jones are all projects while Wentz and Goff might be more immediate starters but, not on a team that just signed RG3. Or, are they looking ahead at 2017 and somebody who is still in the NCAA?

If we sign a project, who do we cut? McCown would be perfect as a #2 working side by side with the project (Hogan) while RG3 runs the ship from the start. Right? But, Shaw has been on team & or PS for 2 years now (ok, well, he was on IR last year)...he is probably wanting to be that #2 dude but, not sure where he stands technically/mechanically etc.). Same with Davis who has even more experience than Shaw. The more I reflect back on Pettine & co. the more I feel the last two years were wasted developmentally for so many of the youngesters,

JMHO, pro coaching "shouldn't" be that different in quality, any rookie needs strength and experience...don't forget we're talking about young bodies just out of college playing against ANGRY FULL DEVELOPED MEN...different physically and mentally...like our jack of all trades, master of none littleE found out...can't wait to see what our team does with the draft picks...like RG3 because he's talented, experienced, married....AND hungry....GO Browns!!!!

I like Ramsey too but, I prefer Buckner over Bosa.

Wasn't there a report that Shanahan wanted to keep the system RG3 had his rookie year, when he had his most sucess, but Griffin pushed for a more Pro Style offense.. Which he then struggled in..?

Reason why I dont watch ESPN.

All this is true, but we're leaving out easily one of the most important things in QB Evaluation

Ability to process info quickly and deliver the ball, and the ability to stay strong and throw an accurate pass to the right guy when the heat is coming.

Here's one of the major things he's looking for, as quoted by Hue

“My eye really goes to their poise under duress,” Jackson said. “Can a guy really manage and hold himself back there when everything’s bearing down on him? Is he willing to stick his back foot in the ground and be compact and deliver the ball down the field? If a guy will demonstrate that, it tells me he’s not scared. But a guy that has a soft back foot, you better look out; he can’t play long in this league.”

This sounds a lot like Jared Goff (the good parts).

Agreed, it's why I'm beginning to think Goff will be our guy. He'll sit behind RG3 to start the season IMO

I am thinking trade down and get Lynch in mid first

RG3 is slow to make his reads but he is also the most fearless passer that I have ever seen in my lifetime. He doesnt shy from the hit but steps into it. Mostly because he is oblivious to the pass rush but I have never seen a QB that is more willing to take the hit to deliver the ball. Hell it is why I thought he would be out of the league in 2 years.

Goff and Lynch will stand in there and deliver the ball. Wentz goes into protection mode, doesnt risk the mistake.

I think both Goff and Wentz actually do a better job throwing on the move than either Lynch or RG3. They are more patient and will attempt to set feet before firing.

The big question is how dedicated has RG3 been to his craft as he has had the last 2 years with nothing to do but watch and observe.

Anyway I like Lynch the best of the QBs but I still believe Hue has the guy he wants in RG3. WE may still take a QB but when we signed RG3 and the way hue was gushing over the guy, I pretty much knew this is his guy. People are making the mistake of saying we are only paying him 7 mil a year whichis backup money but just because thats what we got himfor doesnt mean we werent looking for the best deal we could get.

Hue gushes over everyone.

The answer is yes.

But if you are making some inference from that you'll need to be plain about it because I'm not receiving what you're getting at from the question.

j/c



We were talking about Hogan's long delivery in another thread and I started thinking about RGIII's mechanics. It's also too long.

I remember the discussions we had on the official board when he was coming out. I was against drafting him.

One of my main concerns was his front leg. steve will remember me talking about the "stiff leg" w/Mettenberger and how it would probably lead to injury. There were some good jokes about the stiff leg thing. But, Mettenberger did indeed suffer a knee injury shortly afterwards.

I used to say the same thing about RGIII. That photo isn't the best example, but look at the video that someone posted on him on this thread. That front leg is way out there and it's very stiff.

It's a concern in that there is a lot of traffic in the pocket and it's a knee injury waiting to happen.

I still like the move of bringing him in here, so please don't accuse me of being a hater. I just think it's something to watch for.

You make some interesting points above. Although I'm not quite sure what you mean in some instances *shrugs*

I think Hue Jackson will build his offense around the talent. Therefore I don't think he's 'created' his offense yet.

I there is a false dichotomy being created between read-option vs "pro-style". An offense doesn't have to be one or the other. An offense can be both. And if you look at the better offenses, not just passing games but offenses in the league most have make use of read-option. In my view saying the '2012 offense' has been 'figured out' doesn't match up with the reality.

I don't think Griffin's motion is usually as big as seen in that photo, on the whole I think his motion is usually compact. Hogan's motion is consistently elongated, its might even longer then Byron Leftwhich.

That could be true, but my point about the front leg being too far extended and being stiff remains.

Was editing when you posted this.

But yeah, Griffin does throw with 'arm' and in those instances he often has all his weight on one leg. He also lets his base get wide at times, Wentz has it too (wide base).

His throwing motion isn't as consistent, (probably because he's had a bunch of guys messing with it), but it's pretty compact. He does have some footwork issues though.

He also has problem where he isn't properly pointed at the WR he's throwing to. (Rather than adjust his feet, he'll throw it from off center and adjust his motion. (This could also be why his motion isn't consistent now that I think about it.)

My main concerns with him are his feet and his reads though.

Cool.

I think you are right about the motion. That was just one picture. I'm sure we can find examples of poor mechanics w/all qbs in snapshots.

We got off to a rocky start, but you are a good addition to the board.

Yeah, I agree. Like I said earlier, he gets that front leg too far extended-and stiff--at times. Other times, he gets it too far out to the left.

I will say when he is right, no one looks prettier in the pocket. Reminds me of Joe Willie.........

I'm hoping that House does wonders because I'd rather he starts with that fixed than to have him try to work on that while learning to make the reads.
We need all his focus on his progressions.