WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY "YOU PEOPLE"!!! All caps like a boss
Last edited by Swish; 04/12/1612:58 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
+1 every word you wrote I agree with. Don't know how old you are....I've been around for nearly 70yrs...movements this, leaders cry for opportunity, the same problems exist today that existed back in 60/70s...its racist to provide free housing, free health care, free food...BLM calls it state control....JMHO, black women MUST hold black men more accountable, the black community MUST support traditional families, and Ray Lewis/other successful black leaders must speak out against black violence....in 60s black riots burned MANY more communities, black on black murders have deceased....BUT numbers are still staggering...ask what you are doing to help...I pray, I have worked in schools, I build with others Habitat for Humanity...what are you doing? And I need to do MORE...all the best to everyone.
"You've never lived till you've almost died, life has a flavor the protected will never know" A vet or cop
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
This is broken down into several different programs and blacks are use them all more commonly than the national average. Thus the statement that blacks take out on average more than they put (in other words, total benefits taken out exceeds the amount paid in taxes, likely by an enormous margin although I can't find the raw data on that).
In 2010 there 42 million blacks... by the census number the total number of blacks reaciving mean tested programs were around 18 millions. So blacks taking more then they are giving doesn't logically make sense.
Most of these benefits(medicaide, food, housing, SSI, TANF, GA) actually help children, not adults. Do we want kids, homeless, hungry, with no clothes? If we do then I don't want to be in America.
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This article says blacks make up 32% of welfare recipients while being 12% of the population. It's an interesting article although I only briefly skimmed it
Blacks and non-white Hispanics have a much higher poverty rate which is why more black and non white Hispanics use mean tested programs(welfare). The poverty rate for blacks and and non white Hispanics are pretty close and again the reason is many of them are in poverty. Poverty is considered a family of 4 making under $22,541 a year. (which is just under $12 per hour, $4.5 more then minn wage.
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What little public discussion there is of disproportionate welfare use by blacks and Hispanics is inevitably muddied by the claim that the majority of those receiving welfare are white. This ignores the fact that there are five times as many whites as blacks and four times as many whites as Hispanics in the United States; what matter are differences in the rates at which each group uses welfare. Furthermore, at least in terms of households, this claim is no longer be true.
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Now look, I'm not against welfare. I realize that some people were born into awful situations and there should be some degree of help for these people so they can lives decent lives, get back on their feet, etc.
That quote that you quoted is misleading, yes their are higher percentage, but many whites are in a better financial situation then blacks and non-white Hispanics. Whites as a majority have better access to education, healthcare and generational wealth. This generational wealth was helped by the the government in the form of redlining. Redlining built this low income neighborhoods that only blacks live in, and it built these high income areas that only whites live in.
Originally Posted By: from pbs
"Between 1934 and 1962, the federal government backed $120 billion of home loans. More than 98% went to white homebuyers.
These government programs made possible the new segregated, all-white suburbs that sprang up around the country after World War II. Government subsidies for municipal services helped develop and enhance these suburbs further, in turn fueling commercial investments. Property values soared in these communities, and white families were able to reap the benefits of increased home equity."
On the other hand, I do think the welfare state is massively bloated and I think it's a big problem. It costs taxpayers a lot of money, people abuse the system, it makes people complacent, etc.
I do too, it upsets me that I paid $285 a week for childcare for my daughter's daycare while many of the kids get it for free at the same school. Then one day I asked how much do yo have to make in order qualify for free childcare, the manager said $15,000. I was paying more for her tution then some of these parents were making the entire year. Thats deep, These were working people, stuck and deadend jobs with probably little to no education. I realized that yes I worked hard for what I have and deserve every bit of it but it would suck living in poverty. So for me it doesn't make sense that people make the case that people are welfare queens and just want to sit at home and live in poverty. Yes there are some but i can't believe a majority of people WANT to be in poverty.
I have a proposal to fix welfare but I have no power, I guarantee, it will curve waste, increase productivity for the state and teach these non skilled workers a trade.
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And finally I realize that since blacks make up a disproportionate share of poor/those in need and thus will by default make up a disproportionate share of welfare recipients. Again there is no problem with that, but the point is that if you break it down to the fundamental reality of the situation, it is an ongoing transfer of money from white/asian to black/hispanic. It's raises a red flag for me when I am told that blacks are being held back due to institutional racism. The logic doesn't follow there, that's all.
Please watch this in the entirety if you don't understand institutional racism.
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You see a similar situation with the schools. Suburban schools almost always outperform inner-city schools. I often read claims that because the suburban schools perform so much better, that must be a result of institutional racism. Yet I see that the inner-city schools get most of the time, energy, and care, more money per student is spent on inner-city schools (mostly due to state and federal funds); if there is institutional racism going on there then it probably goes the opposite direction than what is usually said.
I have explained this several times, throwing money at the schools will not fix them, Kids in poverty will not perform well in school, its kinda hard to study, when you have to watch your siblings, its kids hard to do homework when their is no food for dinner. Suburban kids don't have to worry about those debilitating issues, they have all of their needs met.
companies that value diversity above and beyond simply hiring the best person,
Also you you assume that minorities check the box, I know I don't nor will I ever will.
You better be careful where you say this. One of these people will probably think that you're not even trying to get the job!
I am worried if I check the box that I am black that they will already hit their diversity quota and not hire me. Also the check box is only to ensure the government that they are equal opportunity business and showing that minorities are applying fills that quota. Private businesses can hire whoever they like.
Thats deep, These were working people, stuck and deadend jobs with probably little to no education. I realized that yes I worked hard for what I have and deserve every bit of it but it would suck living in poverty. So for me it doesn't make sense that people make the case that people are welfare queens and just want to sit at home and live in poverty. Yes there are some but i can't believe a majority of people WANT to be in poverty.
I have a proposal to fix welfare but I have no power, I guarantee, it will curve waste, increase productivity for the state and teach these non skilled workers a trade.
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+1 to this...
I've known people that worked 40hrs a week and 90% of their paycheck went towards paying for childcare... they ended up quitting and becoming a stay at home mom because it didn't make sense to work 40 hrs to pay someone else to raise their kids...
As for the "welfare queen" part... I do believe that there are people who are that lazy, who do just enough to collect their entitlements. But I do believe as you do that it's not the majority.
But I do think that there are number of people that have accepted that lifestyle... these are the group #2 people I referenced in my post last night... the ones who believe that nothing is going to change for them, so get what you can, however you can... i.e. "the hustle". No kidding, a few years back I went to a call involving money owed and what not.. but one of the people we talked to said she was a tax preparer and the woman she filed the taxes for owed her something like $1500. (both parties were lower income folk, so to me $1500 for preparers fees was rather suspicious).. when i asked about it, the woman freely admitted that she "sells" SSN's of other people's children to people who file their taxes. This increases their tax return, and her cut was something like 50% of the child tax credit.
And she made it seem as common as any other thing.
Hell, I'm not even sure the SSN's she "sold" were legit... but realistically what are the odds of the IRS ever auditing someone filing in the lower income bracket?
Oh, and to your point about skills training... IMO one of the biggest hurdles to success in that is this constant belief being pushed that you have to have a college education to be successful. The skills trades are looked down upon as being made up of inferior people. So as a young person in poverty, no wonder they give up when they are told the ONLY way to be a success is to be college educated and they know for a fact that college isn't in the cards for them.
Mike Rowe constantly talks about the 5 million+ trade skills jobs that aren't being filled. Why are we spending more time arguing over paying the McD's worker $15/hr to not get your order right when there are 5 million jobs that a person can get with minimal $$ invested in training that doesn't cripple them with debt? 5 million jobs that would lift them out of poverty.
Poverty, crime, all of it does become a complex issue... but that doesn't mean the solutions can't be simple.
If you get the time, I'd be interested in seeing Lurkers Plan for Welfare Reform.
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things." -Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
I have explained this several times, throwing money at the schools will not fix them, Kids in poverty will not perform well in school, its kinda hard to study, when you have to watch your siblings, its kids hard to do homework when their is no food for dinner. Suburban kids don't have to worry about those debilitating issues, they have all of their needs met.
But if they only pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and overcame adversity like I did growing up in suburbia!!!! (obvious sarcasm is obvious)
You can add into there about parents going off to gamble, trying to find a safe place to stay away from physically emotionally, and sexually abusive parents/siblings, and wondering how they're going to escape such a messed up place.
If you get the time, I'd be interested in seeing Lurkers Plan for Welfare Reform.
Will try and make it fast, got to run out the house and hit the gym.
I don't care about giving benefits, however everyone will have to work for their payment. If you are physically able to work then you will required to be work some type of community service in order to justify your welfare payment. Or you will you be required to learn sometype of trade 20-30 hours per week. If you don't work the community service or go to your training then you won't get your entitlement, this will motivate people to work and better themselves, this will also benefit the government because it would create more good paying goverment jobs, and allow more "things" to be done.
I would kill snap competetly and turn it into a consolidated food deleveity service, using workers from above to deliver weekly healthy meals full of fruits and vegetables, whole grains and such.
People don't really understand that but Snap is corporate welfare at its finest, I can't afford paying $4 for a box of Oreos, if I wanted oreos I would more then likely buy the generics because they are $2 a box. Poor people buy them because they are free and they are delicious. Who benefits? nabisco, they know that poor people will use their snap to buy their products and will lobby fiercely to expanding snap benefits.
Buy doing both of this you would save sooo much money for the government, have many mundane jobs completed for free, provide training and job placement/experience to people and feed people healthy food.
Last edited by Lurker; 04/13/1605:37 AM. Reason: added some more stuff to clarify
But if they only pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and overcame adversity like I did growing up in suburbia!!!! (obvious sarcasm is obvious)
Man, your posts suck!
You are so freaking racist. You automatically assume that all white people grew up in suburbia.
And yeah, I know you are white. But, you are more of a problem than a fix.
Please read my post bout red lining, also i provided in another post about segregated cities, Cleveland is one of the highest segregated cites in the country. So factual data says the majority of white people grow up in suburbia. Now this is not saying that they are not poor white people, but majority of people who live in suburbia are not minorities.
I have explained this several times, throwing money at the schools will not fix them, Kids in poverty will not perform well in school, its kinda hard to study, when you have to watch your siblings, its kids hard to do homework when their is no food for dinner. Suburban kids don't have to worry about those debilitating issues, they have all of their needs met.
But if they only pulled themselves up by their bootstraps, and overcame adversity like I did growing up in suburbia!!!! (obvious sarcasm is obvious)
You can add into there about parents going off to gamble, trying to find a safe place to stay away from physically emotionally, and sexually abusive parents/siblings, and wondering how they're going to escape such a messed up place.
I said before, my brother was skiped up a 1 grade, and was in magnate schools his entire life, then dropped out of high school at 16 and was gangbanging. Why did such a bright person who was smarter then the rest of his peers do something so stupid and pretty much throw away his life?
The answer is poverty, it's hard worrying about school when you have to worry about your 3 younger brothers getting bullied, have to babysit them because my mother worked 2 jobs and just being a kid(homework is annoying). He had to join a gang in order to protect his "pretty" mother and his 3 brothers. The thing that people don;t understand is this was a kid at 12 or 13 who was forced to make some tough adult decisions because of his environment.
Had he went to my mother, what could she have done? She could barley feed us or keep the lights on. She had other things to worry about.
I was taught that you had to hustle in order to survive, you always needed to have a side hustle just in case. Its very hard to explain but I will try, if a person is making minn wage, which is $15k a year, there is absolutely no way that a person can survive with day to day life, so in order to survive they must be resourceful and find other ways to make money. A hustle can be painting houses, or illegal things like selling bootlegg cds.
But the point is people cannot survive off $8 per hour and they must be creative in their approach.
If you get the time, I'd be interested in seeing Lurkers Plan for Welfare Reform.
Will try and make it fast, got to run out the house and hit the gym.
I don't care about giving benefits, however everyone will have to work for their payment. If you are physically able to work then you will required to be work some type of community service in order to justify your welfare payment. Or you will you be required to learn sometype of trade 20-30 hours per week. If you don't work the community service or go to your training then you won't get your entitlement, this will motivate people to work and better themselves, this will also benefit the government because it would create more good paying goverment jobs, and allow more "things" to be done.
I would kill snap competetly and turn it into a consolidated food deleveity service, using workers from above to deliver weekly healthy meals full of fruits and vegetables, whole grains and such.
People don't really understand that but Snap is corporate welfare at its finest, I can't afford paying $4 for a box of Oreos, if I wanted oreos I would more then likely buy the generics because they are $2 a box. Poor people buy them because they are free and they are delicious. Who benefits? nabisco, they know that poor people will use their snap to buy their products and will lobby fiercely to expanding snap benefits.
Buy doing both of this you would save sooo much money for the government, have many mundane jobs completed for free, provide training and job placement/experience to people and feed people healthy food.
I am all for this but I don't think it will happen. Put it this way, if this kind of bill were introduced to Congress (work and/or be in training to receive welfare), which side says no?
Also, I read your post above and I do appreciate your response. I even watched most of the video, I have seen similar ones before and suffice it to say that I disagree with many of the angles and interpretations it presented. For example, there is a clip of a news anchor who says the following: "Young black men often reject education and gravitate toward the street culture, drugs, hustling, gangs. Nobody forces them to do that. Again, it is a personal decision." Then the narrator says: "The message: to be black is to be inferior. But that's not the facts, that's just racism."
What?! That is such an unfair leap of faith it's not even funny. Let's start with the fact that what that guy said is accurate, it is an ongoing problem, and one that has been discussed here often. But with clever word play and some on-screen theatrics, it is dismissed out of hand.
I know there have been many historical incidents of racism/institutional racism. Some were brought up in the video although I'll be honest that I had to X out partway through because the narrator's voice was just too much to handle (I have watched similar videos and done quite a bit of reading on the topic though). These are good points, but what is rarely mentioned are things that go the other way, for example different standards of admittance for college for different races. There's actually a case of institutional racism that I think is very legitimate: an Asian kid who has to score higher on his SATs, have a better GPA, etc. than anybody else for the simple reason that he is Asian and Asians tend to be successful. Do you see how crazy that is? Why is it that people reach for such obscure things and go back generations to find examples of true institutional racism when we are missing something so blatantly obvious here in 2016?
cliffs: 16 year old shot by police in Chicago, protesting follows
I actually followed this briefly last night. There was a Facebook page made for this vigil and the description was about how Pierre Loury was murdered. Family says he was a sweet kid and did not have a gun.
Police say that they approached a car that was involved in a prior shooting, they got out and ran, the kid that got shot either pointed a gun at the cops or fired at the cops (that was unclear). Hundreds of gang related pics on social media, many included guns.
I hope this does not lead to another situation similar to what was seen in Ferguson, Baltimore, etc.
The assumption is Democrats but BOTH sides will say no because lobbyist for all of these food companies are pushing for snap because they know its guaranteed money that poor people will buy their products. Its not a dem or a reb thing it's a money thing. This country is built on money and the goal for congress is to keep the 1% happy. They will screw over us in order to keep themselves rich and the 1% rich.
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I know there have been many historical incidents of racism/institutional racism. Some were brought up in the video although I'll be honest that I had to X out partway through because the narrator's voice was just too much to handle (I have watched similar videos and done quite a bit of reading on the topic though). These are good points, but what is rarely mentioned are things that go the other way, for example different standards of admittance for college for different races. There's actually a case of institutional racism that I think is very legitimate: an Asian kid who has to score higher on his SATs, have a better GPA, etc. than anybody else for the simple reason that he is Asian and Asians tend to be successful. Do you see how crazy that is? Why is it that people reach for such obscure things and go back generations to find examples of true institutional racism when we are missing something so blatantly obvious here in 2016?
It's not the same you can't compare apples to oranges. The Asian kids have different opportunities ( Asians are the least affected by poverty) If they were affected by the same poverty then blacks and non-white hispanics then I could agree. Poverty is a major force on why kids don't do well in school. It can be easily said like this you are in poverty, you are going do bad in school.
In Columbus there is a suburb called Dublin that has one of the highest concentrations of Asians in the county. The school district has roughly 20% kids who are Asian. The median household income for Dublin is $114,183 compared to Columbus's median household income $54,628. This is a difference of $59,555 a year (for comparison, you can literally buy a house in Columbus for $59k). So the kids in Dublin have a much better chance of success compared to the kids in Columbus based on pure raw dollars. The majority of the kids who are in Columbus public schools are black.
Frankly comparing that to institutional racism is slap in the face. I get what you are saying but understand that institutional racism is a part of implicit biases, since you didn;t watch the full video it explained why its hard to close the achievement gap.
what i'm having a problem with is that people wanna dance around the issue when it comes to minorities, but want quick and swift action when issues affects white suburbia.
i didn't hear a word out of politicians and others crying about "well, we need men in the house, and family values" with this heroin crisis. congress pushed that one extra quick, didn't they? all i kept hearing was "awww, those poor families, i hope they get the help as quickly as possible".
barely a word about responsibility and all that. and watch, NOW posters are gonna be like "well, i always say people need to be responsible".
yea? i didn't see that when it comes to issues in white suburbia.
but every time issues come up with blacks or latino's, mofo's gotta make all these other parallels before they even want to begin considering actual solutions.
and then when the solutions are presented to them, and not fixes to the symptoms, but actual ROOT solutions, yall don't wanna hear it.
so yea, i'm not gonna speak for Lurker. but i did everything right, and i still feel treated like second class in this country.
Last edited by Swish; 04/13/1608:43 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
The trouble with getting old is that you have been witness to so much of your own HISTORY , lol ... As a kid growing into a young man in the 60's I have experienced 50 some years of racial / minority , movement /struggle in my Country .. I have watched the politicians at the federal/State/Local level pass Laws / regulations / exceptions ; throw Billion's upon Billion's of tax payer dollars at the afore mentioned problem .. And from my vantage point , I see very little progress..In fact we might be on a backward slippery slope ..
The assumption is Democrats but BOTH sides will say no because lobbyist for all of these food companies are pushing for snap because they know its guaranteed money that poor people will buy their products. Its not a dem or a reb thing it's a money thing. This country is built on money and the goal for congress is to keep the 1% happy. They will screw over us in order to keep themselves rich and the 1% rich.
Fair enough. I won't dispute that but just from casual conversation and friendly debate, I can say with a high degree of confidence that most conservatives would favor your proposal and most liberals would be against it. We could even do it right here-- What do you think about this Rocket? CHS? How about 40?
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It's not the same you can't compare apples to oranges. The Asian kids have different opportunities ( Asians are the least affected by poverty) If they were affected by the same poverty then blacks and non-white hispanics then I could agree. Poverty is a major force on why kids don't do well in school. It can be easily said like this you are in poverty, you are going do bad in school.
In Columbus there is a suburb called Dublin that has one of the highest concentrations of Asians in the county. The school district has roughly 20% kids who are Asian. The median household income for Dublin is $114,183 compared to Columbus's median household income $54,628. This is a difference of $59,555 a year (for comparison, you can literally buy a house in Columbus for $59k). So the kids in Dublin have a much better chance of success compared to the kids in Columbus based on pure raw dollars. The majority of the kids who are in Columbus public schools are black.
Frankly comparing that to institutional racism is slap in the face. I get what you are saying but understand that institutional racism is a part of implicit biases, since you didn;t watch the full video it explained why its hard to close the achievement gap.
Ok so one has to ask the question, WHY are these Asian kids coming from more affluent communities? This Asian example has to make you so angry because it almost single-handedly disproves the whole idea that a different-looking minority that has been (and continues to be) discriminated against can't get ahead. Asians have largely exceeded white prosperity in the United States, and in many areas of the world for that matter.
Quite frankly, Asians have gotten so far ahead mainly due to their own hard work and intelligence. They should be praised for doing so. Want to be successful? Work hard and study, avoid major crime, have a cohesive family unit, get ahead by actions and not through demands. The blueprint is there and it's just not all that hard to follow.
It is not the government's job to raise people. That is what families and communities are for. Reasonable concessions can be made to allow everybody to have a decent opportunity, the situation is not perfect but I do believe the vast majority of people out there are in environments that they can be successful if they apply themselves.
Through many of the things discussed in this thread (welfare, affirmative action, etc), families and communities have plenty of resources to create safe environments and effective schools. If it is the behavior of blacks (including gang life, single-parent households, etc) that prevents this, that is not institutional racism! Seriously, why we do allow people to go around and terrorize their own communities? Follow the Harlem model of proactive policing. Regrettably, we are largely going the opposite way-- police are so afraid to do their jobs because many people are so hostile to them, that we are going to start seeing the criminal element in many cities get even worse. We are already seeing this actually (hence the thread).
About the implicit bias link: I will try to read up on those studies when I can but I'm already getting behind today...
The trouble with getting old is that you have been witness to so much of your own HISTORY , lol ... As a kid growing into a young man in the 60's I have experienced 50 some years of racial / minority , movement /struggle in my Country .. I have watched the politicians at the federal/State/Local level pass Laws / regulations / exceptions ; throw Billion's upon Billion's of tax payer dollars at the afore mentioned problem .. And from my vantage point , I see very little progress..In fact we might be on a backward slippery slope ..
I agree. Been hearing this broken record over and over again for 60 years but I gotta say, we have finally achieved Equality. Today, ain't nobody happy.
what i'm having a problem with is that people wanna dance around the issue when it comes to minorities, but want quick and swift action when issues affects white suburbia.
i didn't hear a word out of politicians and others crying about "well, we need men in the house, and family values" with this heroin crisis. congress pushed that one extra quick, didn't they? all i kept hearing was "awww, those poor families, i hope they get the help as quickly as possible".
barely a word about responsibility and all that. and watch, NOW posters are gonna be like "well, i always say people need to be responsible".
yea? i didn't see that when it comes to issues in white suburbia.
but every time issues come up with blacks or latino's, mofo's gotta make all these other parallels before they even want to begin considering actual solutions.
and then when the solutions are presented to them, and not fixes to the symptoms, but actual ROOT solutions, yall don't wanna hear it.
so yea, i'm not gonna speak for Lurker. but i did everything right, and i still feel treated like second class in this country.
Here's the thing
I have lived in suburbs my whole life. I would actually prefer to live in a city, there is more to do and in general probably a more fun way to live. Yet every time I go into Cleveland, I am completely dumbfounded by how people behave. This is not a code for white/black mind you, although I will concede that it sometimes (but not always) gravitates along those lines.
My next door neighbor recently moved from Cleveland actually. In talking to him, he was absolutely astonished by well he was treated by everybody. He had to go down to city hall for some administrative stuff and was very effusive in his praise regarding how polite the workers were, compared to how utterly rude they were in the city.
So maybe instead of looking at 'suburbia' like it is a bunch of privileged people who are out of touch with reality, think about what the suburbs are doing right. They are doing a lot of things right, right? Look at the crime rate, how people are treated, how well the kids do in school, etc.
The truth is that there are a lot of people out there like me, who would rather live downtown and do genuinely want to help the situation in less affluent areas, but we inevitably we get shunned, ignored, and told we have no idea what we are talking about. I see these videos online of kids who are blatantly disrespectful and insubordinate to teachers, who cuss and throw things at cops; that type of behavior would never be tolerated here.
Again, none of this is meant as code words for white or black. I've known many blacks in the area I live and the reality is that they are treated pretty well. What I see in person is absolutely nothing like what I read in these threads; it's like a whole different world. The caveat here is that there is a certain expectation of behavior as I described above. Behavior of criminal blacks (or of any race for that matter) is looked at with much more scorn and hostility than it would in the city. It's just an observation-- others might disagree.
Quite frankly, Asians have gotten so far ahead mainly due to their own hard work and intelligence. They should be praised for doing so. Want to be successful? Work hard and study, avoid major crime, have a cohesive family unit, get ahead by actions and not through demands. The blueprint is there and it's just not all that hard to follow.
No, institutional racism has hindered blacks and non-white hispanics. There have been many polices in place that specifically hurt them. I know you read the war on drugs bombshell how Nixon was targeting blacks and hippies. Did they target Asians or non white hippies? No they didn't, Our government gave Asians and non-hippies an opportunity to prosper. So again its not apples to apples, now if you want to compare whites from these super poor rural towns with blacks I am all ears...but you will come to the same conclusion regarding crime, children out of wedlock and other similar statistics because of the poverty.
I am not talking opinions here I am talking posted facts.
Originally Posted By: hasugopher
Through many of the things discussed in this thread (welfare, affirmative action, etc), families and communities have plenty of resources to create safe environments and effective schools. If it is the behavior of blacks (including gang life, single-parent households, etc) that prevents this, that is not institutional racism! Seriously, why we do allow people to go around and terrorize their own communities?
Keep people poor, and they will do whatever they can do to survive, I can't imagine making min wage, with a family of 4.
The behaviour is not a black thing(including gang life, single-parent households, etc) its a poor thing. People in poverty do desperate things in order to survive. Its a black thing because the media institution paints this picture that blacks are gang banger thugs, who father multiple kids and don't raise them.
Again this is a poverty thing not a black thing. Institutional racism increased more blacks and non-white hispanics to be in poverty.
Originally Posted By: hasugopher
Follow the Harlem model of proactive policing. Regrettably, we are largely going the opposite way-- police are so afraid to do their jobs because many people are so hostile to them, that we are going to start seeing the criminal element in many cities get even worse. We are already seeing this actually (hence the thread).
There is a history of distrust of the police from blacks and non-white hispanics because for many years things where different. With social media, and everyone has a smart phone, things are different. Many things that could never be documented or proved in the past now can be proved and shared to social media. I remember my brother tell me how bad it was in the 90s, cops used to beat them up,plant drugs, or pick them and drop them off rival neighbouring gangs areas. Things are different now, but there are still many challenges.
So maybe instead of looking at 'suburbia' like it is a bunch of privileged people who are out of touch with reality, think about what the suburbs are doing right. They are doing a lot of things right, right? Look at the crime rate, how people are treated, how well the kids do in school, etc.
This point tells me that you are not understanding anything that I am saying. (Remember I am posting factual data not all opinions)
So to that point I concede because its wasting both of our time.
You have provided many facts about institutional racism as has happened in this country a generation or two ago. I have likewise posted examples of many government programs and social initiatives that have been enacted to help right those wrongs. I think our source of disagreement is that you think not enough has been done, and I think plenty has been done and that culture and societal attitudes contribute heavily to the ongoing situation.
I don't think we are ever going to agree on this. Actually I'm not even worried about that, there have been many times on this board that I've had friendly disagreements with other posters and left it at that.
But you're a smart guy, this is incredibly obvious to me due to the quality of your writing and arguments, your successes in life, your startup, etc. I also like to think of myself as a smart guy who writes well and makes good arguments, I have not shared as much about my life on here as I'm a generally private person but I have also had much success in life. If you and I can't come to an agreement on this, who will? Seriously, it just comes down to a bunch of useless arguing back and forth and it's a waste of time. Multiply that by a million. I don't even know where I'm going with this-- it's just a little disheartening.
The post I made to Swish was a different argument that really had nothing to do with the topic of institutional racism. You have to understand that Swish sometimes goes on these tirades about suburbia, I'm not sure if it was in this thread but this whole sub-forum kind of runs together into one giant cluster%#($ of idiocy. (From Swish, from me, from everybody)
Lurker, here's a question for you that I had originally addressed to CHS: What country has a good model for equality? I don't mean just picking a socialist country and saying that is what we should follow, I mean in your opinion what country has gone the full way and achieved true equality between whites, blacks, and all races?
It seems like the more I research, the more I realize the situation here is not by any means unique to the United States. The same arguments of institutional racism and such are used all over the world. Earlier in this thread, I linked to something that showed a Facebook post from the Toronto Black Lives Matter co-founder that Canada has "state sanctioned anti-blackness". This came a particular surprise to me, as liberals often use Canada as a model to follow.
There are about 200 countries in the world. If the main cause of inequality in the United States is due to systemic racism, I think it is a reasonable assumption that some other countries would have figured it out by now, right? What country's model should we be striving to follow? Should we look toward other first-world countries? Should we look toward black majority countries under black leadership? Are us Americans going to have to be the leaders and figure it out for ourselves?
The funny thing is, those who point out how many use government programs are the same people that say we should keep minimum wage low so people will be eligible for government programs. It's called wanting to have your cake and eat it too.
You can't whine that minimum wage should be under ten dollars and hour then whine too many people qualify for government programs.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
Lurker, here's a question for you that I had originally addressed to CHS: What country has a good model for equality? I don't mean just picking a socialist country and saying that is what we should follow, I mean in your opinion what country has gone the full way and achieved true equality between whites, blacks, and all races?
It seems like the more I research, the more I realize the situation here is not by any means unique to the United States. The same arguments of institutional racism and such are used all over the world. Earlier in this thread, I linked to something that showed a Facebook post from the Toronto Black Lives Matter co-founder that Canada has "state sanctioned anti-blackness". This came a particular surprise to me, as liberals often use Canada as a model to follow.
There are about 200 countries in the world. If the main cause of inequality in the United States is due to systemic racism, I think it is a reasonable assumption that some other countries would have figured it out by now, right? What country's model should we be striving to follow? Should we look toward other first-world countries? Should we look toward black majority countries under black leadership? Are us Americans going to have to be the leaders and figure it out for ourselves?
1. I don't know enough about world politics to answer that questions. 2. I would assume that many things that are done in other countries simply can't be done here. There are many factors regarding (Population, local governments law) You can't look at place like Switzerland and say we should imitate them because their dynamics are different.
I would suggest we fix our own mess. To fix this mess you will need to tackle poverty, and fix the corrupt system which is why I support Bernie.
Don't hate on my tirades bro. you know they are entertaining.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
doesn't have to be a secret. everybody comes back for more.
hell, we get new posters out of it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
what i'm having a problem with is that people wanna dance around the issue when it comes to minorities, but want quick and swift action when issues affects white suburbia.
i didn't hear a word out of politicians and others crying about "well, we need men in the house, and family values" with this heroin crisis. congress pushed that one extra quick, didn't they? all i kept hearing was "awww, those poor families, i hope they get the help as quickly as possible".
barely a word about responsibility and all that. and watch, NOW posters are gonna be like "well, i always say people need to be responsible".
yea? i didn't see that when it comes to issues in white suburbia.
but every time issues come up with blacks or latino's, mofo's gotta make all these other parallels before they even want to begin considering actual solutions.
and then when the solutions are presented to them, and not fixes to the symptoms, but actual ROOT solutions, yall don't wanna hear it.
so yea, i'm not gonna speak for Lurker. but i did everything right, and i still feel treated like second class in this country.
Or maybe as many black leaders have said, start having some self responsibility for your own communities.
You may be in the drivers seat but God is holding the map. #GMSTRONG
