DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont...The Browns Front Office...not ready for prime time...

"Wanted to play somewhere else."

yup meaning they no longer wanted to be in Cleveland is my point...pretty cut and dry to me...not sure what the mystery is

The mystery is in the players never saying anything remotely close to, "I don't want to play in Cleveland."

nope I think not "i want to play somewhere else to win" is I no longer wanted to be a Brown. what do you think this means? "I wanted to be a Jaguar to have a chance to win" ...means I want out of Cleveland....does it not? there really is no other interpretation of those statements...

They stated they wanted to win...how remotely close is Cleveland to that?

Yeah, the Jags is a much better option to win.

Stating you want to win and stating you want to leave a specific city are two very different things.

Answer the man's question Mac, what would you say about the FO if Wentz is still there at #2 and we get him?

Depends on the city

Lots of guys in San Francisco wanted to retire last year.

They didn't have to insert the "rather than play for the 49ers" part.

I don't know if you are joking or not, but that is a completely different circumstance.

j/c

I can't seriously believe that we are "debating" the interpretation of "letting them walk" and "want to win".It should be self-evident...

Their first-round pick in 2009, Mack has deep roots in Cleveland and has said he'd like to be back. Like Joe Thomas, Mack met with Hue Jackson at the Super Bowl and came away impressed, a source said. He respects Jackson, likes him as a person and thinks he's a fantastic coach.

What's more, Mack might have a chance to block for fellow Cal star Jared Goff, whom the Browns are considering drafting with the No. 2 overall pick.

The addition of Jackson and Goff -- or another top quarterback prospect such as Carson Wentz of North Dakota State or Paxton Lynch of Memphis -- would likely be as appealing to Mack as it is to Thomas, who said last week "the future is really bright for the Cleveland Browns" as long as they pick the right quarterback.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/02/why_alex_mack_will_likely_opt.html

Gipson, 25, has repeatedly stated his desire to re-sign with the Browns.
“I truly love being here,” he said on Jan. 4, the day after the season finale. “I truly love the city, and I want to be a part of it, man, when we go from worst to first. I want to be a part of that when it happens. But, you know, a lot of things go into this free agency, man, and we’ll see how the chips fall.”

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/donte-...gipson-1.665442

That's not fair. Go back to the quotes that say something else.



Here's what I can't believe, how anyone can take any quotes as gospel. Players are all taught to toe the company line when they're with a team. If they're with this team they want to be here. If they're with that team they're glad they are now there.

Seldom do players heavily dis on the team they're currently on. It's too much like dissing on their teammates, their friends. When they switch teams they have new teammates and surely don't want to dis on them. Regarding their old team, those players were their teammates, their friends. They really don't want to dis on them either.

The point is, don't hold those guys to a dissection of their quotes. The things they say are said with their teammates in mind. If they've moved then it's with both old and new teammates in mind. The only way you're going to get an honest, what's really going on in their mind statement is to be a friend or family member, certainly not a reporter.

What you get is, "I want to stay here", before FA and, "I'm glad I'm on this new team", after FA. It's only common sense because it's the only way to handle it in the media.

So all this dissecting their words claiming that we know what is in their hearts and minds by what we read in their public words is all just mental masturbation and a waste of time.

A huge waste of time.

[/thread]

pblack there aren't very many players that will say that they don't want to be back before they leave their team. It's just bad business. The agent wants every team that he talks to think that it's going to take their best offer to pull them away.

In Mack's case, he was already under contract and chose to exercise his option to terminate it. Which is understandable, because he could get more money. However the Browns did offer him more money than the Falcons did. The Falcons offered more guaranteed money. He made the choice to pick the guaranteed money over his home team.

Gipson was mentioned as being one foot out of the door ever since he was tendered. In his own words in your quote above:

"But, you know, a lot of things go into this free agency, man, and we’ll see how the chips fall."

With most players it's whoever offers the most money and I don't blame them one bit for it.

http://articles.philly.com/1992-11-11/sp...s-norman-braman

Reggie White insists he doesn't want to take the money and run.

If, as expected, he becomes an unrestricted free agent after this season, he says he doesn't want to shuffle off to Buffalo or waltz on down to Washington or mamba to Miami.

He says, all things being equal, he'd rather stay right here in Philadelphia.

ok can't believe I have to do this all over again ...but be right back lol

Browns notebook: Chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta picks brain of Bill Parcells


By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer
April 14, 2016 - 03:26 PM

As Paul DePodesta transitions from 20-year Major League Baseball executive of Moneyball fame to chief strategy officer of the Browns, he’s seeking every bit of knowledge he can obtain about the NFL.

So the analytics guru recently picked the brain of Pro Football Hall of Fame coach Bill Parcells at his home in Jupiter, Fla.

In an interview Wednesday night with SiriusXM NFL Radio, Parcells revealed he talked to DePodesta for five or six hours.

“I found the guy to be very interesting,” Parcells said. “Of course, it was a little something new to me, and he was looking for information from me as well. But I was interested to hear what he had to say and kind of what the philosophy that he brought was going to be comprised of.

“Coming from baseball, the criteria they used is what they call the five-tool players, and he was really trying to find out what my impressions of the critical factors were for football players. That’s why he was here. But I was interested to hear what he had to say about how they did things and he was a very bright guy, and I enjoyed being with him very much.”

During his introductory news conference in January, DePodesta indicated he would embark on fact-finding missions while attempting to discover new or better ways to apply analytics to football.

“With 22 positions on the field where you are asking them to do different things and you need different things out of those different spots, there are going to be different challenges [to using analytics in football],” DePodesta said. “I don’t think there is any one silver bullet out there. We are going to try to learn as much as we can about every single one of those positions and try to figure out what it is that is truly meaningful in terms of their performance. Sometimes this might not even be related to numbers. There may be other characteristics that are really important.”

Hence the discussion with Parcells. The legendary coach has become a friend and unofficial adviser to Browns owner Jimmy Haslam in recent years, so it’s not shocking that DePodesta would arrive on his doorstep in a quest for knowledge.

Nate Ulrich can be reached at nulrich@thebeaconjournal.com.

Parcells talks about DePo

Tashaun Gipson left Cleveland so he could 'start winning' ... with the Jaguars
Pro Bowl safety Tashaun Gipson signed with the Jacksonville Jaguars, saying he wanted to win.

"You want to start winning. That's nothing against Cleveland," Gipson said. "I have nothing but love and respect for that organization and love for the city. But I feel like this organization is going in the right direction. It's a lot of moving parts with some good players in the right position."
http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/3/10/11194654/tashaun-gipson-browns-jaguars-winning-free-agency

Alex Mack's Difficult Decision to Finally Leave Cleveland

"I felt it was time to experience a new city and team to make the best out of my football career."

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2623981-alex-macks-difficult-decision-to-finally-leave-cleveland

Why Travis Benjamin Wanted to be a Bolt
“I wanted to come to San Diego to play with a great quarterback like Philip. The guy is a leader. He is a fighter. He is the type of quarterback who as a receiver you wish you get to play with.”

http://www.chargers.com/news/2016/03/09/why-travis-benjamin-wanted-be-bolt


Now does that sound like they wanted to stay and we pushed them away????...and Mack had a better contract on the table then where he decided to go...don't know how many ways a person can read those and say...hey they failed to keep our FA's we let them walk...really???

From my very good friend ddubia:



This is what I believe also. No further comment from me on the subject as ddubia said everything that needs to be said.

good read mac...thanx sounds like he is putting his best foot forward on it

yea I don't buy it for a second...if Mack wanted to be here he would have signed what was offered to him...plain and simple

sounds like players that wanted to stay and a fo that couldnt sell them the idea of what they are trying to do.....

He just hit reply at the bottom and you started the thread mac.

lol sorry yea just hit reply not to respond to you at lol my bad

yea I don't have the words for that one....

I hope this guy is a fast learner,it's seems a bit late in the process to be just now learning what makes a football player a football player.
Fear not,he'll be in the war room,pimping that shortstop from Wichita St.

I think your total comment was a good one, but this really caught my eye and it's something that has me really excited about the direction we're heading. With the release of the RFID information we will KNOW if a guy is faster on game day than at practice. We'll have verifyable data that will conclusively say so.

To a certain degree it sucks for the players but all of the subjectivity will be taken out of the physical side of the equation. There will still be things like leadership and intangibles but I couldn't agree more that those need to reduced in importance to the things we can confirm.

When did they meet?

That should tell everyone that the Browns aren't currently being analytically based in player evaluation. Depo is still working it out.

I made a post the other day that implementing this will take time. My point is not to fall into the trap that since Depo is here our draft evaluations will be based on numbers.

That's a really good catch 22 that you have...

On one side say that Depo is unwilling to talk with the football guys...

On the other side you put him down for doing exactly that.

You still don't have a clue on what he does, but can bash him either way.

This thread is getting close to 300 posts as well. Now you have something you can continue to attack for no reason in your 6th or 7th rehash of it that is yet to come.

Mac....go away...you wanted us to spend the picks to move up?



LOL....I still maintain, though a fan, you are a troll. You never stick up for the Browns. It's always the negative crap. Now it's we were beat to the #1 pick.



Take a hike.

What everyone should have realized, especially those who questioned the validity of anaylitics and football, is that this was going to take time. It was never going to be ready in time for this years draft. Everyone should know that.

DePodesta has the title of Chief Strategy Officer. To start at the beginning is to start at the top. At the top, the owner is a business man but based on a very different type of business. The strategies and policies and processes were probably based on what the owner knew worked best for him in his other business. "We always do it like this, it's how I want it."

But this is football. It's not a gas station. There's so much more to it than marketing to bring in customers. More than managing executives who are regional representatives and sales people. So much more to it than wheeling and dealing for the price of gas. Much more to it than making sure the employees at the convenience store function like a well oiled machine.

Very likely Depo's first focus was to question all the policies the Browns have been operating under organization-wide. How they do business. How everyone works together. How the decision making process is set up. Even who does what.

He would need to develop new strategies and policies regarding how they do business in the world of a sports franshise. He'd need to get the whole organization working together on a single goal--winning. Winning is the business of football.

Starting at the top he would develop processes to bring together all the executive positions/departments and get them aligned so they can work together seamlessly.

He could then move to the football side doing the same. There you find Sashi, Berry, the scouts and the head coach. Depo's job would be to develop strategies, policy and procedures that would get them aligned so they can work together seamlessly. He would set parameters, lanes of responsibility with processes in place that would keep people in their lane.

Once the organization as a whole is straightened out his final challenge would be to begin applying analytics to football. We all know how impossibly hard that must be. The only thing he has to go on, his experience, is from the baseball world. He needs to rightfully discern the difference in dealing with football and then develop strategies for implementing it.

When you consider all he had on his plate it shouldn't be surprising that he couldn't get it all done and foolproof in such a short amount of time.

Right now it is where it is. Just like the football team, it could take 2-3 years to fully incorporate analytics into the football side.

So to say he doesn't know what he's doing evidenced by his asking a football guru for help is to state the obvious. Two or three years from now he'll not need to pick the brain of a guru. He'll have already done that.

What this should show is how far Depo is into this. I assume he has the business part/strategies of the organization in place. That part is not a lot different than baseball and he came in with that experience.

Now he needs to apply himself to football players. Obviously he's in the beginning stages of that. It's going to be time consuming. Not an overnight thing.

If you are smart, you set a price that you are willing to pay, you go to that point. If it goes Beyond what you feel the object/Player is worth, you pass.


People do it at Auto auctions all the time. Did you ever watch Barrett Jackson auctions or any of the others on Velocity?

I go so far as to say, had the Browns paid Mack 15 million a year, they'd have retained him. then we'd hear about how stupid they were for overpaying.

there is just no pleasing some folks. The Browns are damned if they do and damned if they don't around here.

I can't seriously believe that people are telling me what the hell my intent was when I said "let them walk."

Have I freaking EVER been timid about expressing my viewpoints? Jesus guys............I KNOW what the hell I meant when I said it.

I meant that those guys are freaking gone!!! No one knows exactly why. Some keep saying over and over and over and over and over and over that they didn't want to play here. So what? What does that prove? Hell, it's actually a worse indictment about where the Browns are heading.

All I know is one thing. They are gone.

And don't any of you presume to act like you know my intent more than I do. Worry about your own self....it's a full time job!

LOL..........can I play? Let me channel my inner Da Mans Hot....Ewwww.....scary. Okay, I'll just use your sentence...

there [no capital T???] is just no rationalizing with some folks. The Browns are always right even though they constantly losing more games than they win and blowing things up over and over again. [wow, innovative grammar.]