DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Fourth Round Pick - LB Joe Schobert

I think that he has a chance to start at ILB, beside Kirksey.

Not many people realize that Kirksey had 3.5 sacks from the ILB spot last year. That's really solid for a "cover" guy. Schobert is a much more accomplished pass rusher, and I think that he will be a nice fit beside Kirksey, and will also up the unpredictability factor when we blitz. We could have 4 LB who are all capable to very good pass rushers. Schobert sheds blocks very well, and uses his hands well.

I really like this pick, and I think that he will be a starter inside sooner rather than later.

That doesn't have anything to do with this particular player though.

I don;t recall ever gushing over Speegle, personally. In fact, I seem to recall not being all that excited about the pick.

Is it me, or does most of the highlight film shows him making more shoelace tackles/trips than anything?

Dude better hope he don't think he can do that in the nfl. People like Ben just shake him off their feet, like a puppy trying to play.

I don't have the exact stats, but sometimes I mistake this team for a high school team, watching defenders bounce off people because there's no fundamentals in their tackling.

The worst part of our tackling might not have been us just missing the player, but when the players DO wrap up, they roll with the ball carrier a yard upfield. On first down they would wrap up the ball carrier, then toss him over their hips. Then rinse and repeat for the other downs. Giving them yards. This tackling might not affect the game too much, when it's minimized, but at points the Browns were just pushing the other team pass the first down marker. It was infuriating to watch.

J/c

I think Joe will plays ILB in an NFL 34 not OLB.

I think his ability to take on blocks/she'd blocks playing OLB make him a candidate for SILB.

Either or ... I think we can use his pass rush and coverage skills, better from the WILL.

Either or ... I think we can use his pass rush and coverage skills, better from the WILL.

I think his coverage and blitz ability can be used at either position. But in my view SILB requires the physicality that he showed in college. That ability to fight through and shed block is one of the main attributes that separates the 2 ILB positions. But, like a Carlos Dansby, Joe brings more then just thump like you said he can cover and blitz.

And IF he can play the SILB it makes for an athletic pair of ILB with Kirksey, who imo lacks the thump to play SILB, but has speed and coverage ability.

At minimum, this kid and Scooby are going to become ST dynamos.

Didn't we have a lot of missed tackles during Horton's time here? I mean, we've always had a lot of missed tackles, but wasn't there a bit more under Horton? Or at least a bit more than Jauron's tenure. Wrapping up and driving is something this defense has needed to do for a minute now.

Don't remember - but even if true, we had a top 10 D under Horton.

How Much Is Ray Horton to Blame for the Cleveland Browns' 2013 Collapse?
By Andrea Hangst , Contributor Jan 9, 2014

Ron Schwane-USA TODAY Sports

Should the Browns have fired defensive coordinator Ray Horton when they got rid of head coach Rob Chudzinski?


Cleveland Browns CEO Joe Banner and owner Jimmy Haslam used the team's poor performance in the second half of the 2013 season as the justification for firing head coach Rob Chudzinski after less than one calendar year on the job. The Browns lost their final seven games in a row and 10 of their last 11—a team record—and needed to make a move that showed how seriously committed they are to improvement.

But if that is the case, if the unraveling of the Browns, particularly in the second half of the season, was grounds for Chudzinski's firing, then why is defensive coordinator Ray Horton still—at least for now—on the job?

Haslam and Banner confirmed that Browns assistant coaches can keep their jobs while the team finds a new head coach who will decide their fates. But perhaps they should have given Horton his walking papers along with Chudzinski. He and his defense are just as much to blame for the Browns' 4-12 2013 campaign as Chudzinski, if not more so.

Horton and his 3-4 defense were brought in to replace Dick Jauron's 4-3 that ranked 23rd in yards per game, 19th in points per game and notched 38 sacks in 2012. He planned to have an attacking-style defense similar to that of the Pittsburgh Steelers, and both the draft and free agency was spent stocking up players who would help advance this agenda.


The reasons for which the Browns claim they fired Chudzinski should apply to Horton as well.
However, as the season wore on, it became more and more clear that Horton's vision lacked on-field execution. Though the Browns ranked ninth in yards per game allowed, at 332.4, they ranked just 23rd in points per game, at 25.4. And it's fair to say that as the season wore on, the bigger the defense's collapse became.

The Browns defense ended its season ranked a dismal 30th in red-zone touchdown percentage, with teams scoring touchdowns on 64 percent of their red-zone appearances. They ranked 31st in opponent third-down conversions, with teams getting a new set of downs against them 44.67 percent of the time. They gave up the most fourth-quarter points to their opponents—9.1 of them, on average.

Put together, those three numbers are a formula for complete defensive failure. It would have taken an offense of the likes of the Denver Broncos for the Browns to have won many games with that defense.

And no one saw it coming.


In 2012, the Cardinals were one of the best defenses in the league in all three metrics. It ranked first in fourth-quarter points allowed, at 3.8, third in opponent third-down conversion percentage, at 32.88, and third in opponent red-zone touchdown percentage, at 44.44. And while Arizona lost its defensive coordinator, it didn't see any drop-off in defensive performance this season.

What changed was the players tasked with executing the defense. The Browns' 2013 defensive roster was made up of veterans who could either effectively make the switch to the 3-4 or had already done so in Cleveland under Rob Ryan in 2010, as well as 3-4-friendly outside free agents and rookies.

Three of their defensive free-agent pickups—linebacker Quentin Groves, defensive lineman Desmond Bryant and cornerback Chris Owens—all eventually landed on injured reserve.

2013 first-round draft pick Barkevious Mingo played like a rookie and had only 668 defensive snaps in his first season. Cornerback Leon McFadden was the only other first-year Browns defender to get anything near significant playing time, and that came as a result of Owens' injury.

The Browns brought in linebacker Paul Kruger to be the cornerstone of their 3-4 defense's pass rush; he had just 4.5 sacks on the season.
And Cleveland's free-agency crown jewel, linebacker Paul Kruger, had only 4.5 sacks on his 439 pass-rushing snaps—certainly a disappointing performance for someone brought on to be a dominant force in the front seven.

It wasn't just that the Browns needed to get enough pieces to make their new 3-4 defense work; they also needed these pieces to work in concert with one another. Building chemistry and trust between a group of players who had never taken the field together, along with a coach most of them had never worked with, takes time. And there's no set amount of time it will take.

Sometimes, like with the 2013 Baltimore Ravens, it happens quickly. Other times, like with the 2011 Philadelphia Eagles, it doesn't take shape until the end of the season. For the Browns, inexplicably, things started stronger than how they finished.

And with that reasoning being the driving force for Cleveland's front office's decision to part ways with Chudzinski, it follows that Horton should have been held to the same standard. After all, he had more to work with on the defensive side of the ball than the offense did and the defense still collapsed.


Making the Browns defense into a mirror image of the Cardinals was a tough task to accomplish in one season, especially with the change in base scheme. But the fact that the defense failed in such crucial areas on third downs, in the red zone and in the fourth quarter speaks more to the coaching than the players.

Chances are, Horton's time in Cleveland will be limited to one season depending on who the team ultimately hires as its new head coach. But based on Haslam's and Banner's comments concerning why they decided to fire Chudzinski, Horton should have been released at the same time, on the same grounds.

The Browns basically didn't have a quarterback and had no running game to speak of; no wonder their offense struggled. But they had a complete roster of defensive talent and only got worse. There's no excuse or explanation for it, and the responsibility ultimately comes down to coaching.

You make an excellent point. Based on the little info from this draft class we have, I still feel more comfortable handing a coah the guys we just got vs the guys from that past draft.

j/c

I'm not here to predict what will happen with the team going forward. Like everything in life we'll all have to simply see how things develop and assess accordingly. What I have learned from living is that most questions, involving multiple interconnected elements, do not have one single factor that determines success or failure.

I don't have anything close to total recollection of how games unfolded in 2013 when Horton was last on the staff. But one consideration that seems to be missing from an indictment of Horton's coaching skills is the obvious inability of the offense to possess the ball for long periods of time. The Browns have been plagued for many seasons with an inability to sustain drives. Defenses that are on the field too long and too often do not hold up over time. This is not the sole reason the Brown's collapsed in 2013 but it is a significant factor. It's been a chronic deficiency for this team including this past season.

At least for the foreseeable future I think that it's going to be slim pick'ens as far game reps behind Davis.

Secondly I think that there was a reason why Kirksey was platooning with Robertson, namely on base downs.

Evidence

J/c

Good football convo. Time of possession and defensive snaps played are directly related, defensive snaps played and quality of defense are also related.

I think its fair to say that worse an offenses ability to possess the ball, the lower the chances to field a "defense" regardless of personnel. (one of the main knocks against Chip Kelly's offense time of possession is that it makes a decent defense look bad).

I have no idea whether or not Horton is a talented DC/coach. My guess would be, like most coaches, he's only as good as his talent. Its the rare coach that can get more from less.
Good point about Davis. I forgot that more or less Davis is going to be entrenched at the SILB spot when I was considering where he could play.

IF Joe plays the WILB he def brings more thump to line-up then Kirksey.

A Davis--Shobert starting ILB tandem wouldn't shock me either. Joe could be the SILB and Davis the WILB or they could play a straight up RILB/LILB and not flip based on strength.