DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Team, Right Now

I like what you did putting up the odds, so I'm going to add my own.

John Greco: 90%. Barring an injury or a huge drop in play, he is on the team. He is most likely our starting Center or Guard. He is only making $2,925,000 this year and $975,000 next year. Neither year has any guarantees. He's only 31 and I don't see Drango or Coleman as ready to start in their first years. Even if they do, he would be fairly cheap depth, especially next year.

Josh McCown: 85%. The only way I don't see him on the team is if we get a trade offer that we can't refuse. His contract is cheap even for a back-up. RG3 has an injury history. The Browns have a history of going through QB's and we just drafted a rookie that is going to need some time to develop.

Gary Barnidge: 100%. We cleared out the TE's that we didn't want already. We already have room for the rookies. It would actually cost us money to cut him or trade him this year.

Desmond Bryant: 75%. Although we did invest in this spot in the draft, Des is one of the few on the roster with bulk. Cutting him would save another $5,000,000 in cap space, but given his talent level, I would think that Hughes would get cut before Des. Nassib will not be big enough to play full time this year. A Wild Card is if Cooper makes a huge improvement as a 5 technique. That would make Des expendable.

Brian Hartline: 50%. Chances are that either Hartline or Hawkins will stay just to be the veteran leader at the least. I think the odds that they both stay are greater than the odds that they are both gone. Hartline's cap number is only $2,250,000. His fate depends more on the development of Terelle Pryor, Jordan Payton, or Ricardo Louis than anything else. If one of the bigger WR's shows promise. Hartline becomes more expendable.

Andrew Hawkins: 50% If it becomes Hartline or Hawkins, Hawkins is cheaper and knows Hue's system. Hawkins does have more competition than Hartline though given his size

Paul Kruger: 75%. It would be higher if not for his contract. I think Mingo is the guy on the bubble this year and it would take a lot of the younger players standing out for the team to cut Kruger loose this year. Next year may be a different story.

Andy Lee: 90%. The draft pick for Lee is already set in stone and SF will receive a 7th rounder next year from us for Andy. His contract is up there for a punter, but I think if the Browns were looking at that, they would have already secured more competition in camp. A wild card would be if someone else wants to shore up the position and makes us an offer on him.

Marlon Moore: 2%. Dead man walking in my opinion. The only guys playing strictly special teams this year will be guys that show promise in their regular positions.

Joe Thomas: 95%. I think we have made our decision to keep Joe and someone us would have to convince us to change that decision.

Tramon Williams: 80%. His contract is high and I think we would get rid of him if there were another option, but I don't see who beats him out for the #2 job. Haden is still hobbled so he might wind up being our #1 for part of the year.

Joe Haden: 95%. His contract dictates that he is still on the roster this year. The only chance of him being gone is if we got a huge offer that made the $6,300,000 cap hit worth it. I don't see a team willing to make an offer like that for a player coming off of injury.

Just my take on it.

I feel like P and K are two positions that may not be positions that have to be tightly guided by analytic, particularly when you talk about age. Figure it may take 3-6 yrs before a guy like that really finds his range, but once they do, these guys I think can maintain that level of production for the next 10yrs or so. But honestly this is more an impression I get from the position.

I'm not a stat monkey like some of the Dawgs here, but I'd be curious to know if anyone has any info on how long it takes for a P/K to find their range on average, and then how long before they start to show a nominal level of decline.

I think with a guy like Lee, if he can stay healthy, maintain that level of production, and be salary friendly, he's probably a player you keep going in to his mid 30's before you seriously start considering a replacement.

I think that was a pretty good take on all those guys.

If I had to guess right now, who makes the team and who makes the practice squad based on only players currently signed or drafted by the team, it would be this:

Roster (53):

R 13 Campbell, Ibraheim DB
R 43 Gaines, Charles DB
R 21 Gilbert, Justin DB
R 23 Haden, Joe DB
R 41 Howard, Tracy DB
R 20 Moore, Rahim DB
R 33 Poyer, Jordan DB
R 36 Williams, K'Waun DB
R 22 Williams, Tramon DB
R Kindred, Derrick DB
R 27 Taylor, Jamar DB

R 92 Bryant, Desmond DL
R 96 Cooper, Xavier DL
R 93 Hughes III, John DL
R 98 Meder, Jamie DL
R 55 Shelton, Danny DL
R Nassib, Carl DL

R 42 Johnson, Malcolm FB

R 6 Coons, Travis K

R 56 Davis, Demario LB
R 58 Kirksey, Christian LB
R 99 Kruger, Paul LB
R 51 Mingo, Barkevious LB
R 44 Orchard, Nate LB
R Ogbah, Emmanuel LB
R Schobert, Joe LB
R 52 Tuggle, Justin LB

R 78 Bailey, Alvin OL
R 75 Bitonio, Joel OL
R 74 Erving, Cameron OL
R 77 Greco, John OL
R 67 Pasztor, Austin OL
R 73 Thomas, Joe OL
R Coleman, Shon OL
R Drango, Spencer OL
R 61 Bowie, Michael OL

R 8 Lee, Andy P

R 10 Griffin, Robert QB
R 13 McCown, Josh QB
R Kessler, Cody QB

R 34 Crowell, Isaiah RB
R 29 Johnson Jr, Duke RB
R 25 Mostert, Raheem RB

R 82 Barnidge, Gary TE
R DeValve, Seth TE
R 86 Telfer, Randall TE

R 16 Hawkins, Andrew WR
R Coleman, Corey WR
R Higgins, Rashard WR
R Louis, Ricardo WR
R Payton, Jordan WR
R 83 Hartline, Brian WR
R 11 Pryor, Terrelle WR


Practice Squad (10):
P 39 Stamps, A.J. DB
P Caldwell, Trey DB
P 70 Lawrence-Stample, Nile DL
P 63 Rose, Kyle DL
P Wright III, Scooby LB
P 54 Alexander, Dominique LB
P 60 Matthews, Mike OL
P 69 Ladson, Erle OL
P 38 Watson, Terrell RB
P 88 Bibbs, E.J. TE

I don't think Wright is fast enough to make the team as a special teamer, especially over guys like Schobert (who was a ST stud at WIS), Carder, and Alexander. I think he is going to have to really show out at LB in preseason and TC to make the 53.

Of course, there are probably 5 or so guys that will be on the 53 that are not on the team yet, as seems to happen every year.

I don't think we'll carry 9 offensive linemen, and I think DeSir will stick around over Taylor.

I kind of hope Niles Lawrence-Stamples bumps Meder off the roster.

I think Hue will keep Watson up at RB as his bigger back and special teams.

No idea what we'll do at FB. Johnson was disappointing last year.

Other than that I think we're pretty much in agreement.

Linebacker will be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Which WR is cut when Josh Gordon is reinstated?

Wow, 7 WR?

Given that Hue likes to play a lot of 2 TE, I can see us keeping 4 TE overall.

I have a hard time seeing Gilbert and Tramon Williams making the team. Oddly enough. I think that the odds for Williams making the team are worse than for Gilbert.

Do we keep 11 DB, or 4 RB? Do we keep a traditional FB?

I don't see a LS. Did I just miss it?

For some reason, I have difficulty seeing both Kruger and Mingo making the team as backups, and I can't really see either guy starting at this point.

Not sure Gordon has any worth at all. Who's going to give you anything for him.

Only two real options here, Sit and wait because it's costing you nothing. Or cut him. That's all I see anyway.

Josh Gordon

There isn't a right or wrong answer to this Eo. It's just my opinion that you can't get much of anything for him.

Hey, if someone will give us a 7th, I suppose that's something, but I seriously doubt it. JMO

YT and tab, yeah thanks. I forgot about Hughlett. Swap him in for Bowie.

I'm betting he's never ever reinstated to play in the NFL. Making him a the first forever Brownie we all have to eat.

All it takes is one team that feels that all they need is a WR like Josh Gordon and they can win it all this season..

How much would say GB, who may be a bad example as they build mostly through the draft, how much would they give to add a talent like Gordon to Jordy and Cobb? Even if it's just for "one season"..

If a team thinks he can put them over the top, then they may give you something for him, if you have two of those teams, then it can go up a bit more..

I personally, have mostly been of the opinion that if he's going to be this All Pro super talented WR, then he's either going to do it here, or not at all..

This season! Seriously?

Gordon will never play another snap in the NFL. he loves getting high more than football and no team will touch him.

Now for the rest of the receivers, the only one that got any positive reviews thus far has been Pryor and then we draft 4 guys and a pass catching TE/WR. It doesnt look good for hartline, Gabriel and hawkins, all 3 could be looking elsewhere soon enough.

I expect that we carry 5 receivers and 4 TE's, 3 RBs and no FB. Hue is like Chud in that he will slip his TE's out as receivers and move receivers everywhere.

Is he going to coach? Cause, he can't play unless reinstated and his track record on that isn't very sound.

Well played lol

I anticipate that Gordon will be cut outright. The only reason I think that he hasn't yet is because there are too many more important issues that they are dealing with relegating Gordon to a "when we get to him" type of priority. If he ever gets re-instated I'd bet we don't spend much more than a lunch hour to see if anybody wants to give us anything for him before we dump him. He's been here long enough that I don't think we need to worry about recouping any value for him. Particularly with the reasons he wasn't re-instated I just think it would be out of character for Hue and Co to be seriously considering a roster spot for him.

Here's what I don't get though. He costs us nothing. He's not being paid, he's not taking a roster spot, and we wouldn't get jack if we attempted to trade him.

So, why try to trade him, why cut him? No one is "counting" on him.

My understanding is he can't be around the team even. What is there to gain by cutting him? Nothing. What is there to lose? Maybe a 5 in a hundred chance he'll get things figured out.

Because unless you have a VERY strong feeling that he is going to get his crap together and come back and help this team then he is nothing more than a distraction that keeps coming up in the news... a reminder of bygone mistakes...

It's like that old piece of furniture in the garage, it's paid for so it's not costing you anything, but it's not worth enough to sell it, it's not keeping you from parking in the garage but eventually you get tired of looking at it clutter up your garage so you just put it out by the curb to see if somebody picks it up.. otherwise, the trash man can have it.

You say there is no need to cut him... I say there is no need to keep him UNLESS you have that very strong feeling that he is going to come back and contribute... and most people on here feel the odds of that happening are somewhere between getting struck by lightening and winning the Power Ball.

When he is reinstated, you have to do something with him. That's when he is being paid and taking up a roster spot. He is on the last year of his contract so even if he does produce, he's not resigning here. We aren't going to risk a big contract on a 15 time loser and he is going to want to go somewhere that he can have a clean slate and a bunch more bridges to burn.

The Jaguars still own the rights to Justin Blackmon and he's never coming back..

Somebody won the powerball yesterday.



And myself, I don't see it as "clutter in the garage".

I see it as you have something that is worth nothing today, but next year (or in 2 years, etc )might be worth millions. You aren't even storing it - it stores itself. There is only a small chance it will ever be worth anything, but it costs you nothing, is out of sight, off property, and has no value as it is. But it might in the future.

He costs us nothing. Not a roster spot, not a penny in salary. And any image you may feel he reflects on the Browns is completely offset by the image of any number of nfl players that are actively ON a team.

Who's that atlanta receiver? Does his not being cut by the falcons reflect on the team? No.

Hardy - you hold that against the cowboys?

the running back from the ravens - you hold that against the ravens?

In the last 2 scenarios, do you laud the teams for cutting those players?

My bad - in my previous post, I said "falcons".

Arch, it's ok if we just never reach an agreement on this because I was on your side of this for a long time... but right now, it's not "out of sight".. it's in the news, every time it's brought up whether it's applying for reinstatement, having the reinstatement postponed, failing another drug test, getting a DUI, partying with Manziel, it doesn't matter. At some point, I just think the "general nuisance" factor takes over, the Browns get tired of being asked about it, the Browns get tired of seeing "Suspended Browns Wide Receiver Josh Gordon" in the headlines... At some point, you just have to cut bait. I reached that point, if you haven't, that's cool... neither of us get a vote anyway.

You are missing the point arch.

Those guys aren't coming back and if they did they would probably be cut too.

It's once Josh is back on the roster that he hurts the Browns.

How so? If - and like I've said, it's a big IF - but if he comes back, clean and sober, it's a wonderful story. The Browns believed in me, and that gave me the fortitude to believe in myself. I want to thank the Browns for allowing me to be part of the 2 Superbowl championships, and allowing me the opportunity to be in the hall of fame."

And if it doesn't work out? Hey, I don't see the bad press.

Life is what you make of it.

First of all he is not "clean and sober" He has been out partying with JFF after he failed his last pee test. There are pictures of drugs scattered all over the kitchen table.

And even if he did manage to do something that he hasn't accomplished in any other year since about 2008 and go the year without failing another drug test...



There is no point keeping him even if he manages to ball out this year if he is not going to be here next year. He's just wasting a roster spot.

Your best bet is hoping that some other team is stupid enough to trade us a conditional 7th rounder for him.

Actually I don't think the Brown's can legally trade him or release him while he's suspended. I think he's in NFL purgatory until reinstated.

That might be correct. If so, the people calling for him to be cut need to realize that. (IF what you say is true and correct)

My "best bet" is nothing.

He's costing us nothing, in any manner, form, whatever. He's banned from the league, and from Berea.

If he never amounts to anything - it cost us.........?????? Nothing. If he does amount to something, the Browns benefit on the field, AND in public perception.

Cut him for what?

And this would make sense.

I see both of what you and DC are saying. Your points are precisely why I think Gordon isn't anywhere near a priority or at this point a legit consideration. He literally pissed away his chance to be relevant for this season. Even if he manages to get re-instated, he'll have missed most if not all of the off season workouts, and he isn't a guy that can be counted on to stay out of trouble for the entire season. The fact that a) he couldn't stay clean an entire year, or atleast for the pee test that counted shows he has no discipline and b) the fact that he tried to downplay or minimize the result shows he has no accountability, neither to himself or his role on the team. These two things alone put him at odds with the types of guys we just drafted as the basis of a new culture.

If we can't dump him due to his status, then so be it. But if we can, I'd submit the argument that we should because as DC points out, his issues are constantly in the news. Having that attached to the team sends mixed messages I would think, both to the fans and the players. At this point I think in order for Gordon to have a career he'll require a lot of babysitting. I just don't see this FO bothering with someone like that.

The Hue Train is leaving the station and it's not waiting for anyone.

I really had hoped the kid would have gotten his head on straight. He's probably a pretty a decent dude, but I've said before that I think he's a mentally weak person who's too easily influenced by the wrong crowd.

But the post is "what to do once he is reinstated?" and the answer was "trade him or cut him."

That's the only answer because he does nothing for us on the roster.

Unless you know, he has an all-pro season. Which is still pretty likely.

That seems a little weird doesn't it? I mean, a guy who is eligible and with a contract an be dropped at the drop of a dime (with some cash in his pocket).. yet a guy not eligible to play in the league indefinitely can't be dropped???

Odd how a guy who is a screw up has more protections than a guy who is cut for no other reason than he doesn't fit a new regime's system.

The team that signs him after that as an FA may get something out of that. The couple extra wins that we might get only gets us a little worse of a draft choice.

How is it pretty likely? The guy hasn't had a productive game of football in what, 2 years? I think it is highly optimistic to think that he is going to come back and be anywhere close to where he was before..

I would suggest that it's highly unrealistic rather than highly optimistic. But then again, you read this board, so.......