All you got is BS like that...all you got is I'm a Homer so that makes you right. Give me the football.
Vers...that was hilarious...you have chased more posters off this board than anyone...well I guess that does make you an expert of Intolerable... smh
Both of you grow up and talk football. Not discredit me with my opinion cannot count cause I'm a homer.
Many of your accusations is a mirror of your posting characters...take a step back and look how hypocritical you are.
Later. Mr. Real and Mr. Truth...smh
You're the one who started this crap Tab. So you want to spout off about players and season records and then make excuses why you're wrong? "Mr. I'm a better fan because I'm positive all of the time"?
You put your opinions out on a public message board. Stop whining when people call you out on them. That doesn't make you bad. That makes you wrong. Quit throwing a hissy fit.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
I have a few thoughts on RGIII. I believe there are some positives and negatives regarding him. I do not think it is wise to put check marks in all the positive columns or the negative columns.
Positives:
--Browns acquired him w/a fairly small investment.
--Had great success in college.
--Put together an outstanding rookie year.
--Has natural throwing ability.
--Appears to be smart and articulate.
Concerns:
--Injury history.
--Struggles to read defenses, especially post-snap coverages.
--Atrocious footwork when asked to execute 3, 5, and 7-step drops.
--While one may blame Mike Shannahan for RGIII's struggles, there is also the fact that RGIII also had issues w/Gruden, who is very qb friendly.
--Why didn't other teams offer RGIII a nice contract if he is as good as some claim?
Summary:
He's probably a long-shot, but at least he has a shot.
Another funny statement Pit...I started. Like the kid in recess when the principle comes out who first points his finger...he started it...how juvenile.
later, get back to me when you got some actual football discussion.
RG3 is THE best young QB that we have gotten here. Most here thinks of him as a read option QB that is no good unless he is rolling out.
He is accurate from the pocket, he considers himself to be a pocket passer, he wants to become a pocket passer. It might go down as one of our biggest moves since 1999. If it does not turn out good. No big price spent. Reward is great.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
--Injury history.You don't think that running the read option offence at this level had anything to do with that? Bringing him back too soon from his knee injury and running said offence in a knee brace?
If you are going to use the often unjured card objectively, shouldn't you also give the example of said injuries and the story behind them?
--Struggles to read defenses, especially post-snap coverages. This is an ambiguous statment, leaving one to question, ...how so? The stats don't support this parroted, over used statement. Pick anyone used to critique another QB. Comp. %, TD-INT %, yards / Attempt.
--Atrocious footwork when asked to execute 3, 5, and 7-step drops. Absolutely, but thats something that needs to be adressed by coaching. There have been indications that he has been working at improving on those flaws from the OTA's.
--While one may blame Mike Shannahan for RGIII's struggles, there is also the fact that RGIII also had issues w/Gruden, who is very qb friendly. Kirt Cousins
--Why didn't other teams offer RGIII a nice contract if he is as good as some claim? IIRC he did have other visits, but I don't think that another team could/would have offered a better situation then here with Hue Jackson. That is I think that Hue Jackson was the key component.
Summary:
He's probably a long-shot, but at least he has a shot.
Long shot? With our history I'll concede your summer.
As far as his talent and what he is being paid, it's a bargain. Given the choices on the FA market, it was a good signing. We're paying him back up money so there really isn't a lot of gamble there.
There are always variables when it comes to the odds of success with a QB. One is the running game. We both know that our opponents have stacked the box because we haven't been able to mount a consistently productive running game. If that continues, it will once again allow teams to stack the box and that won't bode well for RG3's transformation into a pocket passer.
We have lost talent on the OL. I'm not saying the talent we have can't develop into a solid OL. But it will take time and won't be this year. I believe that's part of the reason they went after a guy like RG3. They know they're going to need a mobile QB.
I think the reason RG3 came here is because he looked at the competition. It's his best shot of starting in the NFL. When you look at our needs as well as his, I think it was the best deal for everyone involved.
Now wanting to be a pocket passer doesn't make you a pocket passer. At least he has the desire to be. But this coming year there may not be much of a pocket for him to play from.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
As far as his talent and what he is being paid, it's a bargain. Given the choices on the FA market, it was a good signing. We're paying him back up money so there really isn't a lot of gamble there.
There are always variables when it comes to the odds of success with a QB. One is the running game. We both know that our opponents have stacked the box because we haven't been able to mount a consistently productive running game. If that continues, it will once again allow teams to stack the box and that won't bode well for RG3's transformation into a pocket passer.
We have lost talent on the OL. I'm not saying the talent we have can't develop into a solid OL. But it will take time and won't be this year. I believe that's part of the reason they went after a guy like RG3. They know they're going to need a mobile QB.
I think the reason RG3 came here is because he looked at the competition. It's his best shot of starting in the NFL. When you look at our needs as well as his, I think it was the best deal for everyone involved.
Now wanting to be a pocket passer doesn't make you a pocket passer. At least he has the desire to be. But this coming year there may not be much of a pocket for him to play from.
If it isn't clear, let me make it clear, that I am responding only to what you've written. I don't have a any stake in the running feud that is taking place here.
You equate Griffin's talent to his contract value. Perhaps you have other criteria for judging his talent but didn't choose to mention them in this post, I can't say. I do think to only judge his talent vs. his cost is a narrow and limited way of viewing him as a player. He has tools that can be an asset on the field. Accuracy, arm strength and mobility come immediately to mind.
I don't think it can be determined with any confidence that the line coming together is a year plus process. It depends on a number of variables. Mainly, what are they asked to do? Are they better prepared to run block or pass pro? Is the open RT position won by one of the vets we've brought in such as Bailey or Bowie? That could reduce the time needed to get the line playing competitively. Not saying this will happen but saying the line can't be competitive in 2016 is an absolute. As a realist you should be skeptical of absolutes
I also feel that stacking the box worked in part because there wasn't enough talent and/or size and speed to make teams pay in the passing game when we were forced to pass. We all see that the team is attempting to eliminate that weakness.
I've seen plays were Griffin has been successful, in the pocket, taking snaps from under center. Now, he hasn't done that consistently but he has displayed to ability to do it. Couple that with the desire to become proficient at it and the coaching to prepare him for it, says to me there is a chance.
If you choose to respond, I only asked that you don't attempt to ensnare me in the other debate.
I finally got around to watching the presser from last week , and firstly I'll say he's intelligent, composed in that presser and seems wiling to work hard, and seems to have bought in with respect to what he needs to do. Whether that translates into RG3 resurrecting his career is another matter. Man we need a break with a QB. It'd be great if he was named Comeback Player of the Year in 2016.
I used to have a book called "Finding the Winning Edge". More than one coach, including Bill Belichick, think it's the quintessential book on coaching. Written by Bill Walsh with Brian Billick as his scribe. There is an entire section on how to choose and develop a QB. What traits are necessary etc. Wish I still had that but I made the mistake of lending it to my brother in law and haven't seen it in years. Cost me 80 bucks used. It's out of print now.... I don't recall the entire list but I do recall the very first thing he looked for was the mental ability to make correct decisions FAST. A QB doesn't need to be Einstein but he does have to process information very very quickly. Speed of thought is more important that a huge arm or a PHD in physics. Can RG3 see the entire field, know what he has to do then do it all in the blink of an eye?
In Washington RG3's ego drove him. He wouldn't take instruction and he tried to run the show. IF he comes here humbled and does everything Coach Jackson and the staff tell him to do every single time, and If he learns our new offense and has it DOWN by camp.... then we will see if he has the requisite ability to function as an NFL quarterback. If he's not willing to do it Hue's way, then his ability to do those things won't matter. He'll be gone very quickly. I don't see Coach Jackson and company taking any crap off a player. First there is the willingness to shut up and learn, then we find out if he's got what it takes.... It would be GREAT if this works. Not my first rodeo however. Until I see it on the field he's just one of the plethora of QB's we've brought in for a cup of coffee.
You don't have to take my word for it. However, I will say that we already had an in-depth discussion on reading defenses pre and post-snap on a prior RGIII thread. If you are truly interested, you can find my takes there.
I do recall the very first thing he looked for was the mental ability to make correct decisions FAST. A QB doesn't need to be Einstein but he does have to process information very very quickly.
Funny, isn't that kinda what Hue Jackson said about Kessler?
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
I used to have a book called "Finding the Winning Edge". More than one coach, including Bill Belichick, think it's the quintessential book on coaching. Written by Bill Walsh with Brian Billick as his scribe. There is an entire section on how to choose and develop a QB. What traits are necessary etc.
Great book. I find myself going back to it all the time. Great reference.
To become a great quarterback, there must be instincts and intuition. This is the area that can be the difference between a very solid quarterback and a great quarterback. This isn't an area you can do much with as a coach. You can certainly bring a quarterback up to a competitive standard, but to reach greatness the quarterback must possess that inherently, ala Billy Kilmer, Sonny Jurgensen, Ken Stabler and Warren Moon.
If throwing a ball were the only aspect of playing quarterback, then this would be an easy position to evaluate. However, because of the dynamic role he plays on the team, a quarterback must have physical, mental, emotional and instinctive traits that go well beyond the mere ability to pass a football.
Still, if he can't pass, he obviously won't be a good quarterback either. For now, let's assume our quarterback candidate has shown an ability to throw the ball.
Now, he must be courageous and intensely competitive. He will be the one on the field who is running the team. His teammates must believe in him or it may not matter how much physical ability he has. If he is courageous and intensely competitive, then other players will know and respect that. This will be a foundation for becoming a leader.
Naturally, he will have to perform up to certain physical standards to maintain that respect and become a leader.
Arm strength is somewhat misleading. Some players can throw 80 yards, but they aren't good passers. Good passing has to do with accuracy, timing, and throwing a ball with touch so it is catchable. This all involves understanding a system, the receivers in the system, and having great anticipation. It is a plus to be able to throw a ball on a line for 35 yards, but not if it is off target or arrives in such a way that it is difficult to catch.
Remember, the goal of passing a ball is to make sure it is caught ... by your intended receiver.
You look at how complete an inventory of throws a quarterback possesses -- from screen passes to timed short passes to medium range passes and down the field throws. This complete range. For the scout, not having a complete inventory does not eliminate the quarterback. But you are looking to evaluate in all facets and distances and types of passes in throwing the ball.
There have been quarterbacks of greatness, Hall of Fame quarterbacks, who didn't have a complete inventory of passes. But you're looking to see the potential of the quarterback in each area. You can see where the emphasis of the offense would be if he were with your team.
A quick delivery , one that is not telegraphed to help the defense, gives the quarterback an advantage when he finds his intended target. That's when it is essential to get the ball "up and gone'' with no wasted motion. Some of this can be acquired by learning proper technique. But to a certain degree, a quick release is related to a quarterback's reaction time between spotting his receiver and getting the ball "up and gone.''
Touch is important, especially in a medium range passing game. One of Joe Montana's most remarkable skills was putting the right touch on a pass so that it was easily catchable by a receiver, who often did not have to break stride.
The ability to read defenses is not something that players have learned to a high degree coming out of college. Even if they have, the pro defenses are very different. But most systems require quarterbacks to look at primary and secondary receivers, usually based on the defense that confronts him. You can see if he locates that secondary receiver -- or maybe even an emergency outlet receiver -- with ease or with a sense of urgency.
This should work like a natural progression, not a situation where it's -- "Oh, my gosh, now I must look over here ... no, over there.'' You can see which quarterbacks handle these situations with grace. These are the types who have a chance to perform with consistency in the NFL.
Mobility and an ability to avoid a pass rush are crucial. Some quarterbacks use this mobility within the pocket just enough so they are able to move and pass when they "feel" a rush. But overall quickness and agility can make a remarkable difference. As an example, there were some very quick boxers in Sugar Ray Leonard's era, but he was quicker than they were and because of that he became a great champ.
Quarterbacks must be able to function while injured. The pro season is about twice as long and more punishing than a college season. They are vulnerable to getting hit hard every time they pass. They must be able to avoid being rattled, get up and show they are in control and can continue to lead the offense.
The single trait that separates great quarterbacks from good quarterbacks is the ability to make the great, spontaneous decision, especially at a crucial time. The clock is running down and your team is five points behind. The play that was called has broken down and 22 players are moving in almost unpredictable directions all over the field.
This is where the great quarterback uses his experience, vision, mobility and what we will call spontaneous genius. He makes something good happen. This, of course, is what we saw in Joe Montana when he pulled out those dramatic victories for Notre Dame.
Quote:
.... I don't recall the entire list but I do recall the very first thing he looked for was the mental ability to make correct decisions FAST. A QB doesn't need to be Einstein but he does have to process information very very quickly.
The part you are talking about I will post here verbatim:
Originally Posted By: Bill Walsh-Finding the Winning Edge pg 169-170
IDENTIFYING THE KEY QUALITIES OF A QUARTERBACK
Collectively, effective quarterbacks exhibit a number of traits, including the fact that they are courageous, spontaneous, adaptable, poised, and mentally and physically tough. They also tend to possess the following critical qualities:
Functional intelligence.The ability of a player to organize and isolate different categories of tasks that he must perform in a particular situation is commonly referred to as functional intelligence. Involving more than strictly his innate IQ level, this characteristic reflects the fact that a quarterback has the ability to quickly break things down (e.g., events, situations, circumstances, etc.) to a point of understanding where he does not overly complicate his response to them. This ability is key to being able to instantly process information in highly stressful situations.
(others he listed below) Ability to learn. Willingness to improve. Good work ethic. Proper throwing action. Emotional stability. Leadership abilities.
Quote:
In Washington RG3's ego drove him. He wouldn't take instruction and he tried to run the show.
One's assumption/speculation/perception is as valid as any other. But, the vantage point from which you are forming your views is imho being tainted by the whim of a bitter and vindicate former HC.
Shanahan calls it 'demands' Griffin calls it a 'discussion' the truth is somewhere in between. Also, you have to remember that Mike Shanahan is at least partially responsible for negligently playing Griffin in a situation that led to his injury. AND when Griffin asked/demanded the meeting it was only months removed from wrecking his knee. Also a major point of the fact remains that Mike Shanahan conveniently doesn't mention is that in 2013 the offense DID call read-option and Griffin ran it. PERIOD. Somehow the little fact that Mike/Kyle called read-option/QB runs and Griffin ran them(even with a brace on his leg). Nor the fact that in 2013 the BEST unit on the team was the Griffin led offense. Also, the crux of the demands/discussion was Griffin wanting to being developed as a pocket passer. And SHANAHAN was the one taking exception to the idea. So, when you say Griffin wouldn't take instruction you're actually getting it backwards (even by Shanahan's own admission) Griffin was the one seeking to be developed as pocket passer and SHANAHAN was the one rebuffing the idea.
Quote:
Until I see it on the field he's just one of the plethora of QB's we've brought in for a cup of coffee.
We agree there. Its all moot. Griffin no doubt has areas of his game he needs to improve upon and a decent amount of rust to shake off. It will all prove out on the field.
You don't have to take my word for it. However, I will say that we already had an in-depth discussion on reading defenses pre and post-snap on a prior RGIII thread. If you are truly interested, you can find my takes there.
Posted by Josh Alper on June 1, 2016, 1:42 PM EDT Hue Jackson AP The Browns were scheduled to hold their final OTA session of the 2016 offseason on Thursday, but coach Hue Jackson said on Wednesday that the team will be doing a charity golf outing rather than spending the day on the practice field.
With the only competition taking place on greens and from the tee, the Browns won’t get any more information about the football skills of the quarterbacks competing for the starting job this offseason. It doesn’t sound like one more day of practice was going to lead to a decision, anyway.
Jackson said that the team wants to make the right choice, “not just the fast choice,” and that they are not ready to pick between Robert Griffin III, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler, Connor Shaw and Austin Davis at this point. His comments about Griffin won’t do much to change the minds of those that think he will wind up with the job.
“He’s made tremendous strides,” Jackson said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “He’s getting better every day. See glimpses of him being extremely good.”
The Browns will hold a three-day minicamp next week to wrap up their offseason program. Based on what Jackson said Wednesday, it seems unlikely that those sessions will lead them to anoint a starter before hitting training camp this summer.
Posted by Josh Alper on June 1, 2016, 1:42 PM EDT Hue Jackson AP The Browns were scheduled to hold their final OTA session of the 2016 offseason on Thursday, but coach Hue Jackson said on Wednesday that the team will be doing a charity golf outing rather than spending the day on the practice field.
With the only competition taking place on greens and from the tee, the Browns won’t get any more information about the football skills of the quarterbacks competing for the starting job this offseason. It doesn’t sound like one more day of practice was going to lead to a decision, anyway.
Jackson said that the team wants to make the right choice, “not just the fast choice,” and that they are not ready to pick between Robert Griffin III, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler, Connor Shaw and Austin Davis at this point. His comments about Griffin won’t do much to change the minds of those that think he will wind up with the job.
“He’s made tremendous strides,” Jackson said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “He’s getting better every day. See glimpses of him being extremely good.”
The Browns will hold a three-day minicamp next week to wrap up their offseason program. Based on what Jackson said Wednesday, it seems unlikely that those sessions will lead them to anoint a starter before hitting training camp this summer.
Keep in mind...from what I have heard and read but it could be incorrect. But according to those who have been to camp. RG3 is getting the most reps with the 1st team than any other QB.
I think Hue made it quite clear he is far off from making a decision on the Starting QB. Why does it mean...oh OTA's are done and WE DON'T HAVE A STARTER NAMED...like its a show of non confidence on RG3 or something? The likelihood of a starter being named before the 1st or 2nd preseason game is very slim.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I think RG3 is better than people think because why would they pass on a proven 4,000 yard passer in Fitzgerald to play RG3.
You mean Fitzpatrick right? ....... Easy one. Age and money. We're getting younger and Fitzys getting old. He is looking for starting QB pay. Nobody thinks RG3 is better. It just made sense to grab up a young QB with a low investment and a possible high reward.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
Hue hasn't yet named a starting QB because they want to drive up potential trade value for McCown.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I could not care less if they waited until 5 minutes before game time of opening day to announce the starter. It just really doesn't matter this year, at all, in any way.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
Another funny statement Pit...I started. Like the kid in recess when the principle comes out who first points his finger...he started it...how juvenile.
later, get back to me when you got some actual football discussion.
RG3 is THE best young QB that we have gotten here. Most here thinks of him as a read option QB that is no good unless he is rolling out.
He is accurate from the pocket, he considers himself to be a pocket passer, he wants to become a pocket passer. It might go down as one of our biggest moves since 1999. If it does not turn out good. No big price spent. Reward is great.
jmho
Honestly Eo, I don't know what your basing your idea of RGIII on.
4 years in Washington or his time at Baylor?
Either way, I want him to be the guy that came out of college that first year in Washington.. I hope he does..man that would be amazing.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Posted by Josh Alper on June 1, 2016, 1:42 PM EDT Hue Jackson AP The Browns were scheduled to hold their final OTA session of the 2016 offseason on Thursday, but coach Hue Jackson said on Wednesday that the team will be doing a charity golf outing rather than spending the day on the practice field.
With the only competition taking place on greens and from the tee, the Browns won’t get any more information about the football skills of the quarterbacks competing for the starting job this offseason. It doesn’t sound like one more day of practice was going to lead to a decision, anyway.
Jackson said that the team wants to make the right choice, “not just the fast choice,” and that they are not ready to pick between Robert Griffin III, Josh McCown, Cody Kessler, Connor Shaw and Austin Davis at this point. His comments about Griffin won’t do much to change the minds of those that think he will wind up with the job.
“He’s made tremendous strides,” Jackson said, via Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “He’s getting better every day. See glimpses of him being extremely good.”
The Browns will hold a three-day minicamp next week to wrap up their offseason program. Based on what Jackson said Wednesday, it seems unlikely that those sessions will lead them to anoint a starter before hitting training camp this summer.
Keep in mind...from what I have heard and read but it could be incorrect. But according to those who have been to camp. RG3 is getting the most reps with the 1st team than any other QB.
I think Hue made it quite clear he is far off from making a decision on the Starting QB. Why does it mean...oh OTA's are done and WE DON'T HAVE A STARTER NAMED...like its a show of non confidence on RG3 or something? The likelihood of a starter being named before the 1st or 2nd preseason game is very slim.
jmho
Eotab..could be that they are not naming a starter,so the QB's work harder on improving their game and progress more as a unit? me thinks it's possible, I don't mind either. I think it is a non issue at this point.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
I am basing my opinion on. 1. his natural talents. 2. his rookie season as a Redskin before he was injured and then the mistrust occurred and attitude which most of it was to keep himself in one piece.
All that is behind him.
What we are getting is yes, a little broken. But he is being very professional in his studies and doing what the coaches have asked. They are not coddling him but they are not trying to BREAK HIM.
In my evaluation which I trust more than any on this board. He can be dominant and accurate from the pocket. He can bring 7 in the box to bolster our run game. He can still hurt teams if the play breaksdown and he has the experience now to know when to throw the ball away or take off with a safe run.
All it comes down to is two things. 1. A dedicated work character to become the best and be coached. 2. A mental comfort zone achieved which is what Hue does best.
Will it happen? nothing is 100% but so far he is doing #1 that is all we have to go on. #2 we will get a better read when the heat of competition against another team is there.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
A "Little" broken doesn't scare me much if the talent is there and the headspace is clear. Hue is kind of known as a guy who gets lots out of QB's so, maybe he'll get RG back to the basics then build him back up.
That's my hope anyway.
I really wish you wouldn't use the term "Doing number 1 or doing number 2) LOL That's a joke Eo...Smile
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
that could be true vers, but a guy who starts by saying he trusts his evaluation more than anyone else's on this board, then ends with JMHO, (just my humble opinion) is funny.
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