DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont...The Browns Front Office...ready for prime time?...

I read that as directed to Mac.

Sorry I'll be more careful in the future.

Oh, this is easy... one might say a "softball" question of sorts... softball being a cousin to baseball... and DePodesta is only a baseball man... the conspiracy thickens mac, and I think you might be part of it! lol

But to seriously answer your question about why we aren't operating like the Steelers yet... the answer is that he hasn't had the right people in place yet.

It's really no more complicated than that.

I do admit that you DO have a valid point, to a degree, about looking how Pilot J is run and what that means for the franchise. Thins like his own management style, business acumen, people he puts in place... I think it's fair to say that those would be good indicators of how he would approach running the franchise.

But I have to agree with the others that past that, claiming we didn't sign our FA's to cover costs for Flying J just gets super thin. Unless you can come up with how the money gets funneled, there is just nothing to support it.

The only thing that might be imaginable is that Jimmy put 70% down right? He had 3 yrs to come up with the other 30%. IF, and a big IF, that 30% was 30% of the valuation of the franchise as it went forward, there could be a possibility that he's short the cash as the value has increased. But what shoots this theory down is 2 things:

1) The 30% is the remaining balance of the original sale price and

2) If it were a % of the current valuation, he would be doing waaay more to depress the valuation than re-signing suspect and ultimately replaceable FA's. He wouldn't have spent the $$ or effort in to the stadium, trying to create a better fan experience, or the boost in marketing ranging from the mascot to the new uniforms.

Another thing I think you guys that are critical of Haslam are missing is how Pilot J was started, run, and brought to profitability. Admittedly I don't know what that history is, but there is a history. I think it's too overly simplistic to use the launching point of "Jimmy owns a multi-billion dollar company and there for in year 1 of owning the franchise everything is supposed to be in place and running perfectly."

Haslam certainly has made some mistakes (like firing Chud et al) but also made some tough, but necessary decisions (like firing Pet and Farmer).

Okay, now I see where you're coming from. And for the record, I don't believe that the guy in charge of contract negotiations has carte blanche to decide how much to pay a givnen player, that limit is decided by the head of personnel.

As to our misunderstanding, I take that rather to be just clarification that he does not have football authority. I would assume that the "president" of an organization would normally have the final say on every aspect of the organization, including in this case football operations. However, because Banner, who was CEO (a ranking higher than president) had control over the football operations, I took quote above to be just confirming that Scheiner would continue to not have any say in the football side. The "rather" was just clarification to forstall any questions as to why the "president" wasn't in chare.

Having said all that, I based my assumption on the fact that I've never seen anyone suggest that Scheiner ever had a say in football operations so I would not expected for him to have inherited them without an announcement. I actually only saw reports of disharmony within the team as Scheiner tried to sit in on meetings where the coaches were complaining that the "business guy" was butting in. Perhaps he was making a power grab as you hypothosize but I'd be interested in seeing any other evidence you have to support that theory.

In response to Mac, the amount of money spent by this ownership on paying ex coaches and executives, stadium upgrades and other attempts at getting things right flies in the face of your theory. Haslam's regimes have made bad decisions on who to sign, sure but there's little to suggest that the two distinct finincial units namely The Cleveland Browns and Pilot J are co-dependent on one another or in any way affected by how the others are doing. These are nots the days of Art Modell taking out loans to pay Andre Rison's free agent contract. The entire team's salary, no matter how high is well more than covered by just the TV money the Browns get from the league:

NFL team-received $226.4 million in national revenue sharing.

That's not counting the concessions, the parking, the tickets, the jersey's, the hats, the licenses, the everything that makes an NFL team a cash cow. That's $226.4 million 2 years ago and the number has gone up every year. It simply doesn't hold water that an NFL team can't afford to spend up to the salary cap, it's merely a planning decision for future years if they don't.

Can you provide a link to this policy? Please.

Joe Haden and Joe Thomas are still here home grown, did they slip through the POLICY CRACKS?

j/c

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...d-football-team

Interesting piece on the Browns -- its only one talking head but at 3:30 "The Browns have had one of the best off seasons in the NFL" ..... I tend to have hope that it pans out that way too. . . . and if it turns out to be even close to being true then in answer to the 'FO ready for prime time?' basis of this thread .... I'd say heck yeah!

As ever I think it may come down to a few key positions - RG3 - Crow/Duke - the rebuilt OL .... I think we have a chance to surprise a little. I'm holding out hope for an 6-10 to 8-8 season despite a tough schedule and some tough loses to free agency.

I can't find anything in your posts that would support that.

Completely disagree. The issue is more about Haslem's decision making than Flying J's federal investigation having a cash flow influence on the Browns, IMO.

Regime turnover after regime turnover and poor draft selections will have a far greater impact than the whatever Flying J is dealing with. It's the same formula we've all been wanting for years.....a solid regime, keeping them, and then drafting consistently well.

Personally, I think the Flying J stuff affecting the Browns operating budget is just fishing. Hate Haslem all you want, I certainly don't mind, there are legitimate reasons for it, I just think any Flying J correlation doesn't add up to me. Too much revenue involved to make a dent, IMO.

In case anyone is interested these are the facts regarding the Thomas and Haden contracts. BTW, this information is readily available, this being the internet and all...

First, Haslam became majority owner in 2012.

Joe Thomas signed a 7 yr. $80.5 mil. extension on 8/22/2011.

Joe Haden signed a 5 yr. $67.5 mil extension on 5/3/2014

Collectively these two facts do not prove or, disprove the contention that Pilot Flying J's financials influence the financial operations of the Browns.

I guess my question to you would be ...

How is rehashing whether or not the FA should, could, didn't want to resign going to help the team at this point?

They are gone all we can do now is wait and see who is right the FO or you.

Care to verify the accuracy of that statement, mac?

He thinks that he already did. ...and there lies the problem.

I will say the franchise as of today is not a winning one, but I don't see Haslam not putting the EFFORT to be a winning franchise. Think about it how much more money he would make if the team were winning...add the bandwagon fans and a fan base drooling for a winner the sale of merchandise would soar he would have a legit reason to raise ticket prices. He can make a lot more with a winning team than a losing team and Haslam has a big EGO has doesn't like being called to as a loser.

Not to mention Mac has not once, to my recollection, answered how his conspiracy theory jibes with the fact that Haslam keeps firing front office people before their contracts are up and so has to keep paying them. If he was really trying to fly under the radar and keep things on the cheap he'd let these guys work out their contracts in the name of consistency, then not renew the contract and hire someone else. Why would he pay all that dead moneny if he didn't have to? The answer is he doesn't, he is TRYING to put a winner on the field and has just sucked at it to this point.

He keeps saying this, but is it actually true? I thought Mack got more guaranteed money w/ATL? I could be wrong, but I just want clarification.

I guess my question to you would be...

How is ignoring that we lost some good players going to help the team win at this point? Do you believe that what we discuss is going to affect how many games the team wins?

I don't agree at all. They are two different entities with the only tie being The Haslams. I'm quite sure that they don't co-mingle funds until the profits land in the Haslams pocket.I'm more than sure that each entity can sustain themselves separate from the other. Each has proven that over and over again.,

Dee has not been implicated in any wrong doing. She can and most probably will be named owner of the Browns should Jimmy be indicted (which I doubt).

Just not sure how some folks feel that the two are connected.

Mack did get more guaranteed money from Atlanta, but adding facts to these conversations is dangerous ground, my friend.

There's nothing unfactual about his statement. A larger contract was offered to Mack than he ended up accepting. There were more guaranteed dollars in Atlanta and that's all the players care about (rightfully so) but that doesn't make his original statement less factual.

Regardless, if the money wasn't higher than what he ended up getting it was pretty damn close, flying in the face of Mac's assertion. Unless, the Browns knew exactly how much he was going to be offered and worked out a deal JUST less than that so they guaranteed that he wouldn't sign it thereby saving face and money! Genius!

Now mac, please don't answer a question with a question. And yes, we know how many of them were resigned...

More assumptions. As if Haslam where a puppet master and the FO are the puppets.

Why hirer anyone if Haslam is this great wizard of OZ?

mac how many free agents REFUSED OFFERS made by Haslam or his people?

Considering your track record of being right/wrong about things, has the thought of not ridiculing other poster's opinions on the state of the Browns ever once crossed your mind?

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!"

Oh, aren't you a sweetheart tonight! And you're the first one to complain about being attacked . I've the utmost respect for mac's posts whehter I agree with them or not. Go start a fight elsewhere...

I guess your answer is "no?"

That's fine, 32.............but when you question the logic of other posters, don't be surprised if I will bring up just how freaking wrong you have been over and over and over.........again.

CURRENT CONTRACT

Alex Mack signed a 5 year, $45,000,000 contract with the Atlanta Falcons, including a $11,500,000 signing bonus, $28,500,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $9,000,000. In 2016, Mack will earn a base salary of $1,750,000 and a signing bonus of $11,500,000. Mack has a cap hit of $4,050,000 while his dead money value is $20,000,000.

CONTRACT:5 yr(s) / $45,000,000 SIGNING BONUS$11,500,000 AVERAGE SALARY$9,000,000 GUARANTEED:$28,500,000 FREE AGENT:2021 / UFA
YEAR AGE BASE SALARY SIGNING BONUS WORKOUT BONUS CAP HIT DEAD CAP
2016 Contract details by year 30 $1,750,000 $2,300,000 - $4,050,000 $20,000,000
2017 Contract details by year 31 $6,750,000 $2,300,000 - $9,050,000 $15,950,000
2018 Contract details by year 32 $8,500,000 $2,300,000 - $10,800,000 $6,900,000
2019 Contract details by year 33 $8,500,000 $2,300,000 - $10,800,000 $4,600,000
2020 Contract details by year 34 $8,000,000 $2,300,000 - $10,300,000 $2,300,000
2021 Free Agent Year 35
UFA

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/atlanta-falcons/alex-mack/

But because the Browns would have the option to match any offer made by the Jaguars, the contract was written by Jacksonville with as many traps as possible so that it would be unfriendly for Cleveland. It didn't work and the Browns immediately matched the offer, but after $18 million guaranteed in the first two seasons of the five-year deal, Mack was left with a three-year, $24 million contract in the last three seasons.

With Mike Pouncey receiving a five-year, $44.75 million contract from the Miami Dolphins in the 2015 offseason, it didn't make sense for Mack to settle for $8 million per year when the open market would certainly treat him better and possibly push his annual salary over $10 million.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2016/2/22/11081860/alex-mack-cleveland-browns-opt-out-contract


trying ta help

Alex Mack opts out of contract with the Browns

By Adam Stites  @AdamBCC on Mar 2, 2016, 12:59p
link
Mack will likely become the highest-paid center ever when he hits the open market.

According to Mike Garafolo of Fox Sports, Alex Mack will hit the open market and opt out of the five-year contract he received in 2014. While it doesn't guarantee the end of Mack's time with the Cleveland Browns, the team will have to open up the pocketbooks if it hopes for a reunion with the 2009 first-round pick.

The deadline for Mack to officially exercise his player option to opt out was March 4.

Mack, 30, has an odd contract situation with the Browns after the team placed the transition tag on him in 2014 instead of the franchise tag. It opened the door for the Jacksonville Jaguars to offer a five-year, $42 million deal to Mack that Cleveland had the option to match.

But because the Browns would have the option to match any offer made by the Jaguars, the contract was written by Jacksonville with as many traps as possible so that it would be unfriendly for Cleveland. It didn't work and the Browns immediately matched the offer, but after $18 million guaranteed in the first two seasons of the five-year deal, Mack was left with a three-year, $24 million contract in the last three seasons.

With Mike Pouncey receiving a five-year, $44.75 million contract from the Miami Dolphins in the 2015 offseason, it didn't make sense for Mack to settle for $8 million per year when the open market would certainly treat him better and possibly push his annual salary over $10 million.

In free agency, Mack is almost certainly going to become the NFL's highest-paid center ever, which is a mark currently held by Pouncey. It's still possible that he could have a reunion with the Browns, though.

The Browns have plenty of cap space to work with, and according to Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain-Dealer, Mack is enthused with the direction the team is headed with Hue Jackson, Sashi Brown and Paul DePodesta now leading the way.

"I mean, it was good to leave the season, take some time off and let that all shake out," Mack told Around The NFL on Thursday. "Really happy they got everything handled early and they found their guy. They're getting a staff together quickly. It's going in the right direction."

To keep Mack, the Browns will have to outbid a field of teams that will likely be very interested in a 30-year-old center who is among the best in the NFL at his position. Mack started 16 games for the Browns in 2015 and earned the Ed Block Courage Award after missing 11 games in 2014 due to a broken fibula that required surgery to repair.

The part I highlighted in red..the reason Mack is no longer a Cleveland Brown...Haslam too damn cheap to pay to keep the best here in Cleveland.

Except that the Browns gave Mack a larger contract, but whatever.