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J/k

Interesting discussion on Schwartz.

I think by all accounts he was a very good/good RT.

But the question for the organization is whether or not he was a 5 year/33 million dollar RT?

How do they rank the positional importance of his caliber play at RT?

Can their offense sustain with a lesser player?

From a position value/importance perspective is the money spent on him better spent at other positions?

etc...whether they were right or wrong can only be answered over the course of the season

Negative evidence is never a basics for any debate, because it can't be proven as fact.

In otherwords you have no facts to present your case and it amounts to nothing more than your opinion and should be stated as such.

Not as a fact.

Mac,

While I agree there are different slants on a players stats, the source that your hanging your hat on ( PFF ), has had many of us scratching our heads all season with their analytical breakdowns & grades.

At the end of the day, all I know, is that, not only did the right side of the line underperformed badly, but the whole O line's performance stunk.

Did I like MS, he was OK. am I going to miss him, maybe, but I for one am looking forward to a new look O line moving into the season & not dwelling on water under bridge.

Hey, vers. You got anything more on 'not giving Schwartz a second thought" or nah?

Mac, it is a matter of what word I would use. It's a matter of what I believe. Brown came out a few days later and said the offer was never pulled. Either way, it was never a case of Haslam not wanting to sigh the guy because of money. I think if anything, Haslam has show he is willing to spend money.

I liked Schwartz. You can go back and look at my comments on him over the last few years. I wanted him to return. I just don't think there was any willful neglect towards signing him.

Mac is driving the "hate the FO train" and he ain't getting off the track no matter what.

be really interesting on this board if the Browns crack 5 or 6 wins this year....not just talking about MS either but all the FA's that left for whatever reason...(reason not important). personally I think we come out with just that, 5 or 6 wins.

sorry can't figure this color crap out but yea it's just my take on it...jmo...and you're entitled to yours my friend

Hey Memphis........have you practiced reading comprehension or nah...?

Haslam

Where do you come up with this stuff?

I'll give it a try...I believe Schwartz and his agent were upset that Sashi and the Browns low balled them with the 7 mil. offer thinking Schwartz was worth 10mil.+. When Schwartz left and the Browns didn't up their offer Schwartz was so ticked off he and his agent decided to get even by claiming the Browns pulled their offer and mishandled the entire situation and then Schwartz had his brother tweet insults to support his revenge. Wow this is so much easier when you don't have to show proof it's true.

So which is it, he's too cheap to sign free agents or he signs other team's free agents, just not ours? So you're entire premise is that Jimmy Haslam, the owner of the Cleveland Browns has made the decision that he's only going to sign other team's free agents and not ours?

He's instructing his personnel people to only offer contracts to our current players that are "just good enough" to sound reasonable but that we know they won't accept?

This guy, who has time after time signed front office people to 3-5 year contacts, then fired them before the contract was up, so he still had to pay them, is penny pinching on the roster (where he has to spend money by league rules) but doesn't care about the money he spends on front office contracts?

And further, while doint all this, he's actually funneling money into his legally distinct other business venture?

ALL of that makes more sense to you than our new regime (right or wrong) decided not to sign some of our free agents because we thought the value wasn't there? ALL of it?

May I offer you a hat?

Jet fuel cannot melt steel beams.

This doesn't make any sense. I'm guessing this is just another blanketed insult when you get caught saying something that isn't true. You could have just said you were wrong and moved on.

So who died and made you in charge of my hat?

You really are slow........

Ah, yes. Resorting to insults when you don't have a leg to stand after someone refutes your claim. Don't you always chastise people of insulting others on here?

The Versatile way.

j/c

I thought this was an interesting read in light of the argument going on here, although it properly should be in "OL Going Forward." (Ref, feel free to move it if that is how you see it.)

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/06/05/cle...tm_medium=email

edited to add...I also posted the article in the OL thread. So I posted in the wrong thread then double posted, hoping that somehow 2 wrongs make a right.

Great read...Thanks W84!

Awesome read!

I don't agree with all of it, but the arguments makes sense. I, like the author, don't see Greco as that much of a fit. I've read other locally based writers also question the future of Greco.

Re: Schwartz, I don't think he gets enough credit. I liked his run blocking and the Browns allegedly made an offer to keep him, so it's not like they put him aside because of the new scheme change. Seemingly, they were ready to keep him after the combine offer was made. I also think MS will thrive in KC's offense too.

A very good read indeed. Whether an oversimplification or not, I learned more in 10 minutes than I have in the past year or two...

Very informative article, for sure. Thanks for sharing, W84. More and more I believe that Hue and his staff will put us in a position to win football games.

nice read thanx for that...sounds better an better

Do you guys think Greco could actually play C all year long? It's talked about like he surely could...especially considering the scheme described in the article.

I think his starting job could be in jeopardy in the new scheme with the new players...but his spot on the 53 seems quite safe.

The Browns effectively overhauled three of five members of an offensive line that could not make a Power run scheme work. Alex Mack is replaced by Cameron Erving who has a lot to prove and is returning to the position for which he was a first round draft pick. Shon Coleman was drafted to play right tackle. His skill set is perfect for a right tackle in a Power Run scheme. Alvin Bailey fits the right tackle mold as well. Spencer Drango was drafted as a left tackle whose skill set is typical of a right guard in the Power run scheme. Expect Austin Pasztor to challenge at right guard as well. John Greco may retain the position; but, as a nine-year veteran at age 31, he is not a long-term solution.

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/06/05/cleveland-browns-rebuilt-offensive-line-2016/4/

















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Mitchell Schwartz was drafted to play in a West Coast passing system that emphasized speed runs. Letting Schwartz leave was a recognition by the Browns that a “road-grader” is needed at that position. Unfortunately, Schwartz is not that.

http://dawgpounddaily.com/2016/06/05/cleveland-browns-rebuilt-offensive-line-2016/3/

Phathom this.

I'd bet we changed our minds about Schwartz once we got the staff set up and then identified Coleman as the Real RT we needed.

No, that can't be it. Haslams a cheap ass.

No they can't. You don't watch much football.

Zone. Power. 2 different animals.

or it could have been his first two years... notice people take a very limited view on things like that. see one play and they are labeled for life...

i thought he sucked his first 2 years, played at best average his 3rd year and played good last year. not great like some say but good/above average.

Thank you for posting the article. The only thing I'm having a hard time with is the marked difference between what this article says and what our coaching said. This article is a direct contradiction of what our old offensive staff said when they were talking up our "hybrid scheme". One of the two are wrong, and not just a little bit wrong.

Just thinking about the article on its own, it makes sense, even if it is a heavily-biased article. There are a lot of if's that need to pan out in order for this line to work. The main point of the article is true, though. Hue likes his power run scheme, and last year's line was simply not staffed to do that. Now we have a bunch of new guys that might be able to do it. We will see.

The men who did such a terrible job that they were fired.

You really should read the article...JT is an all pro, future HOFer, and a perfect fit for LT in many schemes...he's an exceptionally rare guy. But he would not be a good RG...it's not hard to see.

Your last grasp straw of using JT to try and prove a point doesn't hold any weight.