DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Police: Approximately 20 killed in Florida club shooting

Where did I say that?

You have a hard time finding any major religion that's "tolerant" of gays. That includes Christianity.

What I'm saying is that the radicalized versions of religion are the ones who are intolerant to the point of violence.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I know what he was saying. The problem with that route is they can stop anyone from getting guns, without cause. If you ask me, I think the FBI failed in their investigation or stopped it due to political (PC) concerns.

We don't know when the shooter bought his guns yet, so we don't know if he bought them before or after the investigations. I do know he still had his permit to carry.

We have very few choices in these situations. We can investigate and vet everyone coming into this country, which would include closing borders. We can investigate radical religious institutions. We already know that someone who has never been in trouble with the law has a right to buy a gun legally, and we've also had it proven to us that if they can't buy legally, they will find a way to get them illegally, therefore, gun control laws will change nothing. The last thing I can think of is that we go after the radical islamists and eliminate them from the world.

How did they fail in their investigation? At the end of the day, their hands are tied. You already said it yourself, by all accounts, he was a law abiding citizen.

What I'm saying is because of policy, we can't stop, or even STALL a suspected terrorist or any other element from getting a weapon. Because of policy, we are reactionary, and thus have no other choice but to just sit there and wish upon a star that nothing happens.

And how do you close a border to a US citizen? You keep repeating that, but it still makes no logical sense.

You're saying my solutions won't work. That's a very fair opinion. But yours won't either.

And that's the problem. Our hands are tied behind our back.

We can't stop Muslim extremist from bombing us. We can't stop white kids from shooting up schools and movie theaters, We can't stop blacks from shooting each other, and we can't stop cartels from turf wars.

And in my opinion, it's because anything we can try to use as a prevention method is somehow viewed as a full scale assault on the 2nd amendment.

Also, you can't eliminate radicals from the world, because you create more. The only way that has a remote chance of working is by genocide, and I really hope that's not what you're implying.

I've already outlined how we can lower the number of extremist using diplomatic solutions. But y'all have made it clear y'all don't like diplomacy.

But something has to be done. Because bombing them is doing nothing but making their numbers higher. And once again, I already told y'all why.

You honestly believe a policy or a law will stop a terrorist from obtaining a gun? Thats delusional thinking.

For the third time, what I'm saying is that policy that can make the Feds proactive will at least help.

For the second time, I already said they can still get a gun illegally. I SPECIFICALLY said that already. Learn to read.

I don't ever want mass shootings and bombings to happen, but IF, IF it does, let it be because we just have crap human beings in this world that had to jump through the ringer to do what they did, instead of it being a failure from the our system.


I literally already said that, eve.

The problem with proactive is it means treating everyone like a criminal. See TSA.

We can be proactive without being TSA level terrible though. It doesn't have to swing completely one way.

We're all innocent until proven guilty so we can't prosecute someone or hinder their rights (this man was born here) before they've done something wrong.

One of the hallmarks of our society is becoming a problem because this man operated within his rights right up until he pulled the trigger.

I don't know if we have the resources, but if he was high enough on the watch list I'd have put a tail on him 24/7. Followed him right up to the door of the club and arrested him then and there.

Only thing I can think of.

My prayers to those injured in this horrible attack, and my condolences to families and friends of those killed.

Our money isn't innocent, it's guilty until proven innocent. They should have just taken his money so he'd have no money to buy a weapon.

To be fair, Christians are tolerant of the sinner, they just want to pray the gay away. They aren't tossing people from 7 stories or shooting them.

The whole narrative that the father told about his son (the killer) being motivated by having seen two men kissing has the same hollow BS ring as Hillary's citation of an amateur video being the cause of the attack on the embassy in Benghazi.

For sure bro. I said before, right now, Islam is the flavor of the century as far as having the radicals.

He was an American citizen protected by the constitution. Can't take his money until he does something wrong. All we can do is put a bloodhound on him Person of Interest style (really sad that show is ending) and hopefully intervene before he does harm.

The constitution does not protect your money. It only protects you.

You cash has been subject to theft by the police and now guess what, they have bar code readers and can take the cash you have on gift cards too, right there at the traffic stop. Bye bye cash. Just try and get it back bwahahahaha

http://oklahomawatch.org/2016/06/09/will...-prepaid-cards/

My prayers go out all the victims and their families, to all those in Medical and Law Enforcement who must deal with the horrors of this ISIS attack and to our Nation for losing so many citizens to the enemy, once again.

wow what the hell? first orlando and now this?

man, people really hate gay people.

Fixed.

you do realize that last link 3rd posted was a blonde hair blue eye guy from indiana, correct?

it's not just the islamist.

I completely disagree.

These types of heinous events occur because people use religion to perpetuate the hate they themselves hold for certain people. They spend 90% of their religious rants shaming one "sin". They use their hate and prejudice to dig up a very small number of biblical verses that are most certainly subject to interpretation. They claim they love the sinner and hate the sin through pursed lips and clenched teeth, their hatred seething through every word. They are the antithesis of loving and caring people who want to bring people closer to God.

Shame on every single one them.

We went to a local pub today to try to get away from all of this. We were throwing some darts and letting our minds get away from all the hatred and killing. Some guy was engaging us in conversation, normal stuff at the bar. Then he starts asking me what I do for a living and I tell him about my travel. He asks me where I have been lately and I tell him a few places and then I mention I was in Key West for 8 months and says, "Ewww, aren't there a lot of gay people there?". Normally, because I hear this crap a lot in my travels, I would try to nicely just try to change the subject, because I don't need anything escalating when people are drinking. Today, even though I still didn't want to start anything, I stared at the guy for a bit and just turned and walked outside and sat on the patio. People never guess we are gay, so they feel quite free to say the hateful things they think about gays in casual conversation. It's still so acceptable for people to bash gay people, and most of us just keep taking it, because it's not safe not to.

God help the people who believe they are doing His will while really just doing their own. I believe you will face the harshest penalty of all, as you are just as guilty by words as some are by actions and are using God's name to hurt others. I pray for them sincerely.

Tulsa, you do realize the history of Christianity is not a peaceful nor tolerant one, right? Look no further than the Crusades.

There are also many incidents where people, as Jules says perfectly in his reply above, who hide behind religion for their own twisted hatred. The Planned Parenthood in Colorado Springs is a good example of this.

To point fingers at one specific group is not constructive nor is it helpful. It just causes more suspicion and hatred, which is the last thing we need at this point.

Religion and greed are the main instigators of inhumane treatment or death that man inflicts on himself.

Who just killed 50 people?

Because one was caught beforehand.....

I didn't point fingers at anyone. I simply stated what I've experienced. Jules has a different experience and I respect that. She's lives it, I don't. But you've gone off the deep end, the crusades.. sheesh!

Omar Mateen pledged allegiance to ISIS, official says



By Evan Perez, Shimon Prokupecz, Catherine E. Shoichet and Amy La Porte, CNN


Updated 9:25 PM ET, Sun June 12, 2016



Story highlights
NEW: Ex-wife says suspect Omar Mateen abused her, "held her hostage"
Neighbor: Mateen worked as a security guard at a courthouse


(CNN) — The man behind the deadliest mass shooting in U.S. history mentioned ISIS in a 911 call during the attack, but details are still emerging about his ties to the terror group.

Omar Mateen is the person who authorities say killed at least 50 people in a massacre at an Orlando nightclub early Sunday.



The 29-year-old, who died in a shootout with police, lived in Fort Pierce, Florida. Bomb squad teams, FBI agents and police combed his apartment there for hours on Sunday. Investigators haven't revealed what they found.

They also haven't said what led Mateen to attack the Pulse nightclub, which bills itself as "the hottest gay bar in Orlando."




Law enforcement officals say Omar Mateen was the gunman.


Law enforcement officals say Omar Mateen was the gunman.

A 911 call could offer a clue. Mateen called dispatchers about 20 minutes into the attack, pledging allegiance to ISIS and mentioning the Boston Marathon bombers, a U.S. official said.







Sunday's attack, officials said, wasn't the first time Mateen crossed paths with authorities.


Ex-wife: He abused me

The shooter's ex-wife, Sitora Yusufiy, held a press conference on Sunday. She said she believed Mateen — who she said abused her periodically during their relationship -- was emotionally unstable and suffered from mental illness.

"In the beginning he was a normal being that cared about family, loved to joke, loved to have fun, but then a few months after we were married I saw his instability. I saw that he was bipolar and he would get mad out of nowhere. That's when I started worrying about my safety," she said.

Yusufiy, who met Mateen online about seven years ago, said the abuse she suffered at Mateen's hands became so horrific that her family was forced to "rescue her," and she described the night she left all her belongings and fled.

"He started abusing me physically, very often, and not allowing me to speak to my family, keeping me hostage from them," Yusufiy said.

"[My family] had to pull me out of his arms and find an emergency flight. ... I made a police report."


FBI investigated him before

His full name was Omar Mir Seddique Mateen and he was born in New York. His parents are originally from Afghanistan, a U.S. official said.

The FBI had interviewed him in two terror-related cases, but both of them were closed, Assistant Special Agent in Charge Ronald Hopper told reporters Sunday.

"Those interviews turned out to be inconclusive," Hopper said, "so there was nothing to keep the investigation going."

Mateen was not under investigation or under surveillance at the time of Sunday's shooting, Hopper said.

"The FBI first became aware of Mateen in 2013 when he made inflammatory comments to co-workers alleging possible terrorist ties," Hopper said.

The investigation was closed, Hopper said, after investigators "were unable to verify the substance of his comments."

In 2014, the FBI interviewed Mateen again over possible connections with an American suicide bomber.

"We determined that contact was minimal and did not constitute a substantive relationship or threat at that time," Hopper said.



Officials earlier said Mateen was one of hundreds of people on the agency's radar suspected of being ISIS sympathizers. There was no indication he was plotting to carry out an attack, the officials said.


Armed with handgun, assault rifle

The gunman was armed with a handgun, an assault rifle and an unknown number of rounds when he attacked, Orlando Police Chief John Mina told reporters.

Both weapons were legally purchased "within the last few days," ATF Assistant Special Agent in Charge Trevor Velinor told reporters.

Mateen worked as a security officer at G4S Secure Solutions, one of the world's largest private security companies, which said Sunday it was "shocked and saddened" by the news.

"We are cooperating fully with all law enforcement authorities, including the FBI, as they conduct their investigation," G4S Secure Solutions said.

Authorities evacuated about 200 people from the Fort Pierce apartment complex where Mateen lived as they investigated the scene Sunday, police said.

A neighbor told CNN Mateen worked as a security guard at the courthouse in Port St. Lucie, Florida. Mateen often worked at the front of the building, staffing the metal detectors, according to the neighbor.


Authorities are looking into Mateen's electronic devices for any suspicious activity and trying to put together a timeline of his movement before the attack, law enforcement officials said.

Police are also investigating the suspect's vehicle, a van parked outside the nightclub, Mina said. Mateen rented a car and drove to Orlando to carry out the attack, a law enforcement source told CNN.


Outrage over two men kissing

A message posted on a site associated with the ISIS news agency Amaq described the attacker as "an Islamic State fighter." But the language is inconsistent with previous ISIS announcements, and there was no claim the attack was directed, just an after-the-fact assertion the gunman was an ISIS fighter.

The shooter's family told investigators he wasn't particularly religious.

They expressed surprise about any connection to ISIS, according to two law enforcement officials.

Officials stressed that their investigation is in the early stages. They say they're looking into the possibility Mateen radicalized on his own. In addition to possible ties to the terror group, there could be other factors at play.

After seeing two men kissing in Miami, Mateen expressed outrage to his father, the officials said.

His ex-wife told investigators he had anger issues, according to one of the officials.



CNN's Pamela Brown, MaryLynn Ryan, Vivian Kuo, Samira Jafari, Patricia DiCarlo, Salma Abdelaziz, Jackie Wattles and Joshua Gaynor contributed to this report.

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Those verses are not open to interpretation. Not gonna restate them as I'm sure you've heard enough of them but they're very straight forward about homosexuality being a sin.

Sorry, just sharing the truth.

Before we start laying the blame on which religion has the higher body count, don't ignore the fact that secular, non-religious governments have a collective death toll in the 100 million plus range just in the last century....

Good point. Don't know how communist Russia or China treated homosexuals but I know how Nazi Germany treated them.

There was not a problem with radical islam in the 11960's, if your family doesn't have roots in the United States going back that far, then you shouldn't be a full American citizen, even if you were born in New York.

Especially if the go back, is to somewhere in the middle east.

There is an 800 pound elephant in the room people.
It's not North Koreans doing this, it's those from the middle east.

Not Soviets, Not White supremecists, Not black panthers, not Hell's Angels, Not Columbians,
Not some virus, or computer hackers, or Athiests.

They actually are not as straight forward as you so wish they are, but keep spreading the good word, Ted! The world is a better place for your insistence on making sure the rest of the world follows your interpretation. God help you.

I take it you can't read.

Leviticus 20:13-15 If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man takes a woman and her mother also, it is depravity; he and they shall be burned with fire, that there may be no depravity among you. If a man lies with an animal, he shall surely be put to death, and you shall kill the animal.

Plain english, and it should cover any question in the Canada thread.

JC

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/opinions/orlando-shooting-moghul/index.html

Haroon Moghul is a Senior Fellow and Director of Development at the Center for Global Policy . His next book, How to be a Muslim, will be out in 2017.The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.

(CNN)After attacks like the one in Orlando early Sunday morning, many turn to Muslims in expectation of an answer. An explanation, or maybe an apology. At times like this, many Muslims turn to each other in despair, looking for answers, too. Well, I have one.

Condemning terrorism is a woefully inadequate response to a persistent menace. We could condemn every attack, in every part of the world. Just last week, there was a terrorist attack in Istanbul. But it wouldn't make a significant difference because -- and here's the key -- it is a fundamentally reactive strategy. It cedes terrorists the power to set the agenda.

One of the reasons we got here is because there is a huge disconnect in too much of the Muslim world between what we want to see, and what we're actually capable of bringing about. Much of the Muslim world is dominated by violent, oppressive governments, some of which spend liberally to support their interpretation of Islam. Sadly, they have enough cash to crush more compassionate and intelligent alternatives.
As a result, there are hundreds of millions of Muslims who go unrepresented, who have almost no institutions that can realize our different hopes and dreams. Aid our co-religionists. Advance our concerns. Defend our various causes. Provide quality education. We are underperforming on almost every level -- regionally and globally -- and that's the terrible, tragic reality. How else is it that a small band of vile extremists have come to dominate the conversation about Islam, except that we have let this happen to us? Let's take a long, hard, awkward look in the mirror.

But then let's ask ourselves what it would take to turn the corner.
The hundreds of millions of Muslims who reject extremism must start building out real, institutional alternatives to extremism, with serious funding, talent and commitment behind them. We've spent tens of millions of dollars in the United States, for example, and on what? We have some nice mosques. Most of them are empty most of the week, except for a few hours every Friday afternoon. We built some Islamic schools. I guess that's cool. But on the major metric, we've failed. It feels as if we are more unpopular than ever.

Many Americans want us banned from the country. In the battle for hearts and minds, we're losing. Badly. When Muhammad Ali died, a lot of Muslims I know were despondent precisely because they wondered if we would ever see such a champion again.

We need to turn this around. We need to fight back against extremism. We need to take ownership of the problems, because it's the only way we're going to take ownership of the solution. If you can't criticize yourself, you can't better yourself. If you can't lay out a vision of the future, you're going to live someone else's future.

What else can besieged American Muslims do?

I'm calling for the chaotic Muslim middle -- too long unrepresented or underrepresented -- not to stand up and speak out, but to stand up and build out. We must design, fund, sustain and expand programs that target the very people extremists are going after. Young men and young women of all backgrounds. These programs would realize a positive vision of Islam. They'd make young people feel like they're doing something. They'd make them feel valuable. Empowered. Capable. Agents.
As a friend of mine likes to put it, these programs should help create protagonists, writers of their own narrative. That becomes the kind of program that young people all over the world want to be part of. They should be so well-funded that we can afford to take people regardless of their personal circumstance. So egalitarian they aim to assist and uplift people regardless of where they come from, what color their skin is, what religion they believe in, or what language they speak. That begin to crowd out the extremist narrative, and extremist ideology.

Imagine if we could send significant numbers of young Muslims to meet their co-religionists and offer them aid and assistance, or to meet people they've never been exposed to, to be taught and to teach. Imagine if we leveraged our resources and our numbers to fight hate, intolerance and extremism. Imagine if young people saw they could help their co-religionists by working with mainstream institutions.

I am tired of simply saying terrorism is wrong. We should know that already. We should be known for that. I'd rather build up an alternative, a Muslim world that doesn't just reject extremism in word, but defeats it in deed, that does more than acknowledge homophobia, and intolerance (and the many other ills we see rampant in some Muslim communities, like anti-Semitism and racism), but actively fights them.
We certainly have the resources among us. We have more reasons to act now than we should.

How long will we let those reasons keep piling up?

Join us on Facebook.com/CNNOpinion.
Read CNNOpinion's Flipboard magazine.
Haroon Moghul is a fellow at the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. His next book, "How to be a Muslim," will be out in 2017. The opinions expressed in this commentary are his.

Ah, Leviticus. Can we now bring up everything in the old testament as to what is sin, Ted? Anyone posting that today after what happened tells me all I need to know about you.

I'm sure you did a little dance today. You are winning. Congratulations.

No, I didn't do a dance today. The devil is winning. I'm a christian and I need God's forgiveness just like anyone else does.

I'm very well aware of what sin is as I'm guilty (but forgiven by the grace of God) of my fair share of it as well. Difference is that when I opened that book and saw what I was doing wrong I didn't try to change it's plain english to fit my lifestyle. And I promise you, as a man in his mid twenties trying to follow Christ every time a preacher used the word fornication I was thinking to myself-please give me an excuse!
They never did.

Given that this is an internet board, you're never going to know enough about me to make that statement about me. Not a big deal though.
And I didn't post this until you started the usual 'that verse is open to interpretation' spiel.

I don't know what else to tell you, like I've said on here before: If things went according to God's original plan, we'd all be sitting naked under a tree.

Original plan? I thought the perfect God doesn't make mistakes?

Anyways, RIP to the victims, and I hope their families can get through this. People shouldn't have to suffer just because religious nut cases don't agree with who they are.

God isn't the one who threw a wrench into the plan either, thought you read the book.

The cross was plan b.

No mention of you throwing the old testament at us, but when anyone throws it your way you have an absolute fit?

You are reaping what you sow. Good for you.

Not having a fit. What are you talking about?