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Originally Posted By: Swish

don't forget, the reason they kept their currency and definitely want out is because joining the eurozone puts a major hit on one of their biggest trade partners:



Well, they kept their currency because the Euro at the time was an unknown. Also, the British are a funny group of people. They love their own identity and their own customs (just look at the arguments to keep the Imperial pint for beer and the "laws" that the pint must be to the top of the glass!). The pound is a symbol of that. But, it was smart because the pound may have fluctuated in strength over the years but, it has remained relatively stable.

I don't think the majority want out though Swish. I could be completely wrong...I just don't think it is the majority. Again, I think it is the loud voices we hear that makes us think it is the majority but, I will be shocked if it is the case.

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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: Swish

don't forget, the reason they kept their currency and definitely want out is because joining the eurozone puts a major hit on one of their biggest trade partners:



Well, they kept their currency because the Euro at the time was an unknown. Also, the British are a funny group of people. They love their own identity and their own customs (just look at the arguments to keep the Imperial pint for beer and the "laws" that the pint must be to the top of the glass!). The pound is a symbol of that. But, it was smart because the pound may have fluctuated in strength over the years but, it has remained relatively stable.

I don't think the majority want out though Swish. I could be completely wrong...I just don't think it is the majority. Again, I think it is the loud voices we hear that makes us think it is the majority but, I will be shocked if it is the case.





we will definitely see. i think their announcing the voting results tomorrow? should be interesting.

if they vote to stay....then there's that.

if not....it's only gonna be the beginning of the cluster.....

you definitely know your stuff and have the personal background with Britain, so i believe you. i think the votes will be close maybe? but they might not vote to exit.

it's funny though bro because Britain doesn't really do much of anything with EU except the trade and contributions.

No eurozone
No shengen agreement (that one sucks, we took the tunnel over to England with our cars on the train, took forever to get checked).

and other issues.


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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
I have traveled across America, across Canada and across Europe. I have not seen any body trying to turn any country into their own. Have they brought their own customs, culture, language and food to those countries via pockets of neighborhoods? Of course. Do they speak in their own language? Yes. No different than the Italians or Irish before them.

Personally, I love experiencing diverse cultures in my city. Going to the Notting Hill parade was always a highlight of the year when I lived in London! I also love having the option to eat Cuban, Indian, Japanese or Lebanese food. It sure beats eating hamburgers, hotdogs and pizza every day!

Remember...this is America we are the melting pot society that has and should always be that beacon of light for people all over the world. As long as we are people will always want to come here. We should welcome and embrace diversity.

That said, and slightly different topic but, what I think scares people about diversity is what is beginning to happen to Texas. Texas, as it changes and diversifies, will one day be a blue state. Absolutely no doubt about it. It will happen. And, when it does the Republican party as we currently know it, which doesn't seem to embrace diversity, will disappear.



So, you have no problem when muslims start bringing sharia courts into areas of the US? They are currently doing it in the UK and other areas of Europe. The Europeans that came to this country in the last big immigration integrated into the society that was already here.

Texas might eventually turn into a blue state, but that would be due to people fleeing California to move to Texas where the business is. Unfortunately, they will bring the same policies that eventually caused them to leave CA.


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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
I have traveled across America, across Canada and across Europe. I have not seen any body trying to turn any country into their own. Have they brought their own customs, culture, language and food to those countries via pockets of neighborhoods? Of course. Do they speak in their own language? Yes. No different than the Italians or Irish before them.

Personally, I love experiencing diverse cultures in my city. Going to the Notting Hill parade was always a highlight of the year when I lived in London! I also love having the option to eat Cuban, Indian, Japanese or Lebanese food. It sure beats eating hamburgers, hotdogs and pizza every day!

Remember...this is America we are the melting pot society that has and should always be that beacon of light for people all over the world. As long as we are people will always want to come here. We should welcome and embrace diversity.

That said, and slightly different topic but, what I think scares people about diversity is what is beginning to happen to Texas. Texas, as it changes and diversifies, will one day be a blue state. Absolutely no doubt about it. It will happen. And, when it does the Republican party as we currently know it, which doesn't seem to embrace diversity, will disappear.



So, you have no problem when muslims start bringing sharia courts into areas of the US? They are currently doing it in the UK and other areas of Europe. The Europeans that came to this country in the last big immigration integrated into the society that was already here.

Texas might eventually turn into a blue state, but that would be due to people fleeing California to move to Texas where the business is. Unfortunately, they will bring the same policies that eventually caused them to leave CA.


you do realize your own party opened the flood gates for that same problem to be here in the US, right?

this thing called "religious freedom". funny thing is, it doesn't just apply for christians.

you do so much bashing of other countries you dont even realize your politicians are pulling the same stunt here at home.


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Sharia principles aren't courts of law.

Most are Sharia 'councils' set up to make decisions on purely religious matters, although there are some bodies that mix Sharia principles with legally binding arbitration. But none can overrule the regular courts.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
finances aren't part of this issue?

do you even know how much money the UK contributes to the EU?

hint: it's in the billions. finances is absolutely the major issue for this Brexit.

don't forget, the reason they kept their currency and definitely want out is because joining the eurozone puts a major hit on one of their biggest trade partners:

China.

this is a financial problem for Britain. everything else is just extra fuel to the fire bro. it's obvious as day.


I didn't clarify that right. Their finances, in terms of the Euro, are not that much of an issue, as the UK kept it's currency. The EU is costing them significantly in finances, as they are constantly required to bail out other EU countries (like Greece) and take in more immigrants than they can afford. Immigration is high in the minds of the average citizens of the UK in relation to this vote.


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Originally Posted By: PerfectSpiral
Sharia principles aren't courts of law.

Most are Sharia 'councils' set up to make decisions on purely religious matters, although there are some bodies that mix Sharia principles with legally binding arbitration. But none can overrule the regular courts.


Their religion is their law. They have sharia courts set up in most of the European countries they have immigrated to already.


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we will see how big immigration is. i think you're exaggerating this issue quite a bit.

as i said before, while some view it as an issue, it isn't the main reason why this EU exit is going to a vote.


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You said the magic words...it's their law. They cannot override the regular courts.


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Originally Posted By: Swish


you definitely know your stuff and have the personal background with Britain, so i believe you.


Well, I could be wrong. It certainly seems everybody we know over there is overwhelmingly voting to stay in. It may be close but, as with the Scottish vote last year and hopefully our own elections in November...I am hopeful common sense prevails.

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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell


So, you have no problem when muslims start bringing sharia courts into areas of the US?


I find it humorous that the right always have to cite the most extreme examples.

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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: ErikInHell


So, you have no problem when muslims start bringing sharia courts into areas of the US?


I find it humorous that the right always have to cite the most extreme examples.



Swish, not going to complain about someone making this left vs. right?

I don't find it humorous that they are already doing it in various areas of the UK and other European countries, and people like you ignore it.


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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
and hopefully our own elections in November...I am hopeful common sense prevails.


Have you seen the candidates? Common sense has been completely abandoned already.

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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: ErikInHell


So, you have no problem when muslims start bringing sharia courts into areas of the US?


I find it humorous that the right always have to cite the most extreme examples.



Swish, not going to complain about someone making this left vs. right?

I don't find it humorous that they are already doing it in various areas of the UK and other European countries, and people like you ignore it.


Damn can I take a shower without having to post?

PDX, don't make this a right vs left issue..even though that's the entire point of this vote.


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Originally Posted By: Swish

if they vote to stay....then there's that.

if not....it's only gonna be the beginning of the cluster.....



Totally agree with the cluster to follow if they do vote to exit.

France and Germany would surely have to be next? I have close family in SE France so, that will be an interesting question if it comes to that.

The media, as they have proven in our election, love to stir the pot. A lot of stuff was stirred up about the Scottish vote to leave the union but, in the end it came to nothing. Can't remember the actual tally 60/40 or thereabouts.

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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell

I don't find it humorous that they are already doing it in various areas of the UK and other European countries, and people like you ignore it.


Have you been to the UK ever? Recently?

Ask any sensible person in the UK about diversity and immigration and the majority will agree it is a good thing.

Does that mean there are people who don't like it? Of course. The UK has its fair share of far right extremists. But, they are not the majority. Not even close.

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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell


Texas might eventually turn into a blue state, but that would be due to people fleeing California to move to Texas where the business is. Unfortunately, they will bring the same policies that eventually caused them to leave CA.


There may be some of that but, those Californians are moving to Oregon too. Every third person I talk to seems to have moved here from California.

Texas will turn blue because it is already one of the most diverse states and the older the Latino population become and those being born here as citizens or gaining citizenship...all of it will lead to the politics of the state changing. Right now, as it currently stands, the Republican party is certainly not endearing itself to the younger Latinos. The party will have to change and will need to address the far right element or they will never, ever see the White House again.

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USA Today is predicting the remain camp has won because the British pound has hit it's highest levels this year.


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Dow jones also had a really good day.


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Early results should start trickling in around midnight British time.

But, they do have a resounding result from Gibraltar: 84% to Remain. smile

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Those interested: this link to the BBC is probably the best to follow the results.

http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: ErikInHell

I don't find it humorous that they are already doing it in various areas of the UK and other European countries, and people like you ignore it.


Have you been to the UK ever? Recently?

Ask any sensible person in the UK about diversity and immigration and the majority will agree it is a good thing.

Does that mean there are people who don't like it? Of course. The UK has its fair share of far right extremists. But, they are not the majority. Not even close.


Why yes, I have. I even have family there. I guess anyone that doesn't agree with you isn't sensible, like the queen. The UK is losing its sovereignty. They need to get out of the EU before they wind up in the new European Socialist Union, where unelected bureaucrats are able to determine the laws in their country.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
Damn can I take a shower without having to post?


Did the EU call you and tell you that you had to post or something? See what happens when you lose sovereignty?


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Anyways,

Northern Ireland and Scotland so far voting majority for remain.

Britain so far for leave.

Wales yet to start tallying.


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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
I guess anyone that doesn't agree with you isn't sensible, like the queen. The UK is losing its sovereignty.


I have no problem with you and I not agreeing. What I do have a problem with is when conversations start going into fear mongering territories. I do not buy the immigration issue. As with Swish, I believe it is all a smoke screen to detract from the real issues why the leave campaign want to pull out.

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Originally Posted By: PDXBrownsFan
Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
I guess anyone that doesn't agree with you isn't sensible, like the queen. The UK is losing its sovereignty.


I have no problem with you and I not agreeing. What I do have a problem with is when conversations start going into fear mongering territories. I do not buy the immigration issue. As with Swish, I believe it is all a smoke screen to detract from the real issues why the leave campaign want to pull out.





It looks like the UK no longer has any sense, according to you.


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Pound is taking a hit on the market.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
Pound is taking a hit on the market.


It's only down 15cents on the dollar right now. It will recover.


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6 percent.

This won't even be the lowest point. It's still gonna take 2 years for them to exit the EU. By then the rates could drop even further. The performance against the Euro might bounce back.

But against the dollar? Who knows.

Last edited by Swish; 06/23/16 11:56 PM.

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Never mind. Now it's down 9.25%

That's not s good sign no matter how you try and down play it.


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On the good side of that, I might go buy some pounds after it hits bottom for the next trip I make there. The exchange rate was murder when it was $1.60/GBP.


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Its a knee jerk reaction it will recover.


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So, as of right now, there are still 47 results left to declare in England, but the others are complete. Wales is out. Scotland & N. Ireland are in. England is leaning toward out, and the overall total popular vote is leaning toward Out as well.

Tomorrow might be a very interesting day.


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I'm waiting on the polls to officially close, gonna dump some bread into the market.


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The Pound is down to 1985 levels right now, and the pundits are already calling it done - Brexit Wins.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/...ome-says-leadi/


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Polish people are gonna be so pissed. That was their cash cow!!!!


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Germany and France should be up next. Especially since Greece is trying to shave the money they owe them off


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This is pretty much a done deal... down to only 27 unreported results.

52% to 48% - Brexit has happened.... and the Pound has lost another penny just that quickly. Down to $1.34.


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Feels like nationalism is on the rise; sort of a scary thought, too.

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The Pound is falling again.... since hitting refresh on the page last, it's down to $1.32. It'll probably be fairly volatile all day tomorrow.


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