DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Trump VS Clinton 2016

All well and good but not voting for D or R reminds me of when I voted for Cruz in the Primaries, I could have saved the gas for something more useful and effective.

Don't you mean "her"?

This whole notion always fascinated me. What has Joe Biden done? What legislation has he put forth? Would ANYTHING be different if he was from Montana or if he was a little more conservative or a little more liberal? No. Not a damn thing would have changed over the last 7 years. This notion that a VP candidate sways large groups of voters is ridiculous... (Don't get me wrong, it might sway some.. but I don't care who Donald Trump picks as his VP candidate, I'm either voting for Trump or I'm not voting for Trump, his VP candidate will have little to no bearing on it)

To be fair Crazy Uncle Joe did bring us the warning shot. Of course he didn't address the gravity theory of what goes up must come down but that's only a small side point.

I believe you may be right to an extent but this election cycle is a little different. There are many out there that want to vote GOP that simply can't vote for Trump. I believe the same holds true for Hillary.

So what they are actually looking for is some excuse or justification to do so. I won't vote for either. I'm like you in that I can either endorse a candidate with my vote or I can't. And with these two, I can't.

But I do believe that there are many voters out there that either lean GOP or Dem. that are just looking for some justification to continue voting the way they usually do. And the VP nomination may be just enough to push them over the edge.

And many of them will get sucked in with the, "If you don't vote for us, they will win. Is that what you want?" line of thinking.

And if his pick was Sarah Palin you wouldn't be swayed?

Hogwash! Most people I know choose Trump because he may be able to change things where Hillary is seen as the same old same old.

Looking for justification is the attitude of a fence sitter.

In case you missed the news, there are many big wigs in the GOP who refuse to even show up for the convention. Romney, GWB, Jeb Bush Kasich and 16 GOP senators so far. Now if you consider all of those people fence sitters I suppose you should take that up with the GOP, not me.

I don't make the news, I just report it.

Some of these people are the same people you've voted for in the past. Now all of a sudden you call them fence sitters because they can't support a lying blow hard like Trump.

Some people stand up for their morals and some are sell outs.

Ha! Most of those who won't show up are what we have been referring to as RINO's and they won't be showing up to anything in the future as we kick them to the curb!

As far as Trump being a lying blow hard, that just shows how you have always preferred the PC crowd and those politicians that tell you what you want to hear!

Morals? MORALS?? You dare to tell us about MORALS???

Pfft.

j/c sort of.

I heard on radio today - 1370 am out of toledo I think it was. Toledo, and the surrounding areas, are expecting millions of dollars to come in during the convention because all of the Cleveland area hotels are full for the convention.

Pretty big. Big windfall for Toledo and the surrounding areas. Pretty big that people would be willing to make the 2 hour drive to Cleveland, and 2 hours back, each day.

Pretty big for Toledo because the cops won't have to deal with protests and whatever nut jobs they'll have in Cleveland. (not the gop - just people in general)


I hope and pray some knotheads don't go all ballistic in Cleveland during the convention.

It's one thing to disagree politically. It's completely different to start killing people, or causing riots.

Read earlier this week a town near here is sending a few officers to help in Cleveland. I'm sure many, many, many other towns,cities, counties, etc are doing the same thing.

Y'all stay safe. New protest guidelines in place. New Black Panthers claim they are bringing guns. Couldn't get me anywhere near the city during the convention.

Good luck!

All good as this will show America the true colors of the Left in America and why we must all vote for Trump.

The Left only believes in the Right of Free Speech as long as you are saying things their way.

The thing that really ticks me off is after the "Shot in the Arm" Cleveland got from the Cavs Championship, the uplifting of spirits we all enjoyed, The Left will come to town and make Cleveland a head shaking laughingstock for years to come.

The Left did the same at the 1968 DNC in Chicago, it was all downhill for that city since!

God I hope not!

I just want to hear sanity.

You really believe Trump will build a wall?

You really believe he'll ban all Muslims?

Surely you're not that gullible.

Neither party is offering a choice worth voting for. It's time you quit being a sheep and face the truth.

I know Trump will build a wall and I know he will negotiate for Mexico to pay for most of it. It is the kind of thing he has negotiated over and over again as a Businessman and will do as President. As he has said, Mexico has $50 Billion in yearly income riding on their building that wall. It will only cost them a one time payment of $10 Billion to continue to enjoy the $50 Billion per year.

I know he will negotiate the backing of Congress to stop immigration from areas we are at war with.

Just because you don't believe he can pull it off doesn't mean it won't happen. At least he will try, no one else even has that much will.

What you refer to as Sanity, he calls Leadership!

I wouldn't...

j/c:

What qualities do either of these candidates have that would make anyone vote for them?

I kinda get why some would vote for Trump. Uneducated, not-so-successful racist white guys probably find him appealing. But, aren't there more educated, open-minded people in this country that would make sure that him becoming president would never happen?

What does Hillary offer? Educated females who feel that she would validate their long-suffering crusade to be seen as equals?

Hell, I hate profiling. And here I am doing it. That astounds me! But seriously.......I just can't find any redeeming qualities in either of these candidates. And the fact that one of them is going to be our next president astounds me even more-so.

I agree that the VP typically does little .... however in this case. where the right of the Party is freaked out by Trump, naming a solid conservative as VP could assuage some of their concerns. (at least a little)

What fools!

I tell ya, if you want to see UltaLiberals like Crooked Hillary, Bleeding-Heart Nancy Pelosi, and Hatchet-Man Chuck Schumer in control of the White House, Congress and the Statehouses across this Country, while America continues its downward spiral by cementing Barack Obama's Leftist Legacy, you go right ahead but Me and Trump stand for Murica!

Now I see why he talks like that, feels really good!

You two stand for a confederate Murica, certainly not a united Murica.

You so enjoy jumping around these threads and misrepresenting what people think and say.

Watching the CNN town hall with Paul Ryan, interesting discussion topics.

I am not a fan of Obama, but I would rather have him in office than either Trump or Hillary.

Why didn't Paul Ryan run for president?

Paul Ryan may not want that kind of pressure. He has had pressure as GOP House Speaker already.

You say that like it's a bad thing lol

I think it's more about appearances than substance.

Otherwise, I see no reason for a VP choice to influence the outcome of the election.

I kind of feel the same way, then I realize that we'd be in for 4 more years of the same ole same ole and I just don't think I could take it.

Of course, with these leading candidates, it's not going to change. Damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Gary Larson said it best.

There are other choices...

And I personally like the other choices but they have a major hill to climb and not many think that hill can be climbed in this election cycle. Which leaves us with the reality of damned if you do and damned if you don't.

That is the exact thinking that stops other parties from gaining traction...

Then it's up to the other parties to start changing that perception. It's on them, they are asking for the job, they need to get out and sell themselves.

They are. The problem is they cant afford to be on prime time cable TV during every commercial break. Maybe we as voters need to research a little more. Obviously you have, but that fear of "throwing a vote away" is what always stops other parties.

I've been throwing away my vote, in a Swing state since I've been voting, but it's never hurt the Democrats like they've been telling me it would. The two parties are snakes trying to scare you into voting for them.

This is exactly where I stand. Until people start voting for a third party to send a strong message, nothing is going to change. People say it's a wasted vote. I say otherwise. Until we wake up and tell both parties to go to hell through our vote, we get what we deserve.

I for one plan to vite 3rd party. I refuse to take any responsibility for electing either trump or clinton. And maybe nobody else has a chance but if enough of us "waste" our votes then maybe someone will notice.

I haven't voted for a major party nominee in the last 3 elections, as I refuse to whore myself out for the lesser of two evils. I'm tempted to vote for the independent/third party candidate that looks like he's going to get the most votes, no matter the party or stance on issues. I'll whore myself out in an attempt to effect a long needed change in the sad state of American politics instead.

j/c

The Hot New Park at the Center of the Republican Convention
Cleveland’s Public Square was once a traffic mess, but a $50 million redesign was done with people—and democracy—in mind.


CLEVELAND—Just in time to play a starring role in next week’s Republican National Convention, Cleveland’s most iconic civic space has undergone a $50-million face-lift.

Public Square, for the past century little more than an unpleasant traffic-clogged intersection at the center of the city, is again a park for people—six acres of swooping promenades lined with sinuous sculptural seating, lush gardens and a public lawn.


Designed by urban landscape guru James Corner, the guy behind Manhattan’s widely lauded High Line, the new Public Square, only a few blocks from Quicken Arena, will be one of the most visible public protest zones during the convention. Corner’s philosophy about urban open space has as much to do with promoting civic involvement and democracy as it is does recreation, which makes the timing of the convention all the more fitting. Members of the public are already signing up for half-hour speaking slots on the Square’s new public stage—nearly the same spot where in the 19th century famous orators like Stephen Douglas, Horace Greeley and Sam Houston, and William McKinley once spoke to thousands.

It’s the keystone of an ambitious effort to reknit the Forest City’s grand, Progressive Era public spaces, and one Clevelanders hope will solidify their downtown’s quiet renaissance. “We were certain that if something dramatic wasn’t done to improve our public spaces, we would not see the potential realized for downtown,” says Ann Zoller, executive director of the LAND Studio, a nonprofit that plans and designs the city’s public spaces and played a central role in the Public Square redesign. “And we didn’t want to just check the box, we wanted to do it at a world-class level.”
Cincinnati’s Over-The-Rhine neighborhood.

WHAT WORKS
How Cincinnati Salvaged the Nation’s Most Dangerous Neighborhood
By COLIN WOODARD


The remake of Public Square links the once moribund downtown with the city’s 26-acre mall— the grand, European-style civic space designed by David Burnham at the turn of the 19th century that includes the city’s grand auditorium, court house and city hall—and the Lake Erie waterfront beyond, long stranded behind rail and highway corridors. Reconnect these spaces, the idea goes, and you unlock their latent potential.

“It’s really all about making the city more attractive, about making it work for workers, residents and visitors,” says Corner, whose New York-based James Corner Field Operations has helped make landscape architecture hot. “We’re in this renaissance where it’s being recognized that public open spaces add significant value to cities, not only by catalyzing new economic developments, but also through health, fitness and the promotion of sociality, diversity and democracy.”

Cleveland is a fitting place for such a renaissance. Laid out by New Englanders—this part of Ohio was originally claimed and colonized by Connecticut as its “Western Reserve”—Public Square was the town common, where residents grazed their hogs and cattle between the Presbyterian Church and the county courthouse in the first decades of the 19th century. Clevelanders have been fighting over how the square should be used ever since.

***

First the struggle was over fencing. In the 1830s, the town council enclosed the four quadrants to “prevent the depredations of the cattle and swine” which were hindering traffic on Superior and Ontario, the streets that crossed one another at the square’s center. Then they legislated against “boys from using it as a ball ground” or “roosting” on the fence to the “annoyance of traffic.”
But public pressure for a recreational space grew with the city, which in the 20 years from 1830 to 1850 had grown from a village of 1,000 to an urban center of 20,000. There were petitions for the square to be enclosed, cutting off Superior Avenue and Ontario Street, to create “a grand central park,” a plan vehemently opposed by area merchants, who feared it would deflect traffic from their stores.

For a time, the public prevailed. Looping sidewalks, ornamental shrubbery and a grand fountain were constructed in the newly enclosed park, where bands played on weekends. But the business community refused to relent, eventually convincing the courts that the city had no right to cut off street traffic, and the potential right-of-ways of an aspiring new streetcar company. In 1867, the fences were breached, and the park again cut in four by traffic. By the 1890s, what was left of the park was disheveled and the square had become a dreary transit hub.

“That’s been the clash over the years,” says J. Mark Souther, associate professor of history at Cleveland State University. “Should it be a recreational space on one hand or a transportation space on the other.”

Public Square was lost to recreation, but the city fathers tried to compensate with the creation of the “Group Plan of 1903,” at that time the most comprehensive city plan in the country outside of Washington, D.C. Inspired by the plans for the nation’s capital, state and city officials convened a commission headed by the country’s preeminent architect, Daniel Burnham, the man who designed the 1893 Chicago World’s Fair’s “White City” and who led the subsequent redesign of the National Mall in Washington.
The plan directed the placement and design parameters for a new City Hall, county courthouse, public library, federal building and railway station around a grand mall located between Public Square and the lakefront. “We took for our inspiration the Place de la Concorde,” commission member Arnold Brunner later recalled, and especially the twin palaces Ange-Jacques Gabriel built on that square for Louis XV, photographs of which the commissioners included in their official report “with other views of Paris.”

Cleveland executed the plan, building a civic district that stands as a monument to that city’s turn-of-the-century wealth and ambition. In 1920, it was the fifth-largest city in the country with more than twice as many people— 800,000—as it has today, a booming manufacturing center and a homegrown elite who lavished money on cultural institutions like the Cleveland Symphony Orchestra, which remains one of the best in the world. That year saw the construction of the $150 million Cleveland Union Terminal complex on the south side of Public Square, a 52-story tower perched over an underground railway terminal that was then the tallest building between New York and Chicago.


WHAT WORKS
Cleveland’s Race Problem
By DAN MOULTHROP


Then it all came crashing down. The Great Depression hit the city especially hard and, after a short boom in World War II, it continued to hemorrhage people and industries. There were race riots in 1967. Factories relocated to the Sun Belt. Wealthy residents moved to the suburbs. Downtown department stores closed. The polluted Cuyahoga River caught fire in 1969 and, nine years later, the city defaulted on its debts, the first city to do so since the Depression. Outsiders began calling it “the Mistake on the Lake.” As recently as 2010, it topped the Forbes list of America’s Most Miserable Cities “thanks to its high unemployment, high taxes, lousy weather, corruption by public officials and crummy sports teams.”

***

In that spring of 2010, Anthony Coyne, a real estate attorney and amateur urban historian who served as chairman of the city planning commission, met with Mayor Frank Jackson in the opulent Red Room of City Hall, a neo-classical structure at the center of Burnham’s civic plan. He had a crazy idea.

Jackson, he suggested, should follow in the footsteps of his distant predecessor, Progressive Era lion Tom Johnson, and convene a new Group Plan Commission tasked with reconnecting the city’s public spaces. “I said, 'Mayor, we’ve let a lot of our public realm spaces go,'” Coyne recalls. “We keep taking about being a ‘green city on a blue lake,’ but we have to quit talking and get walking.” They should develop a new plan for Public Square, the Mall and link them to the lakefront, long detached from the city by rail and highways.
Jackson loved it.


“In Europe, I always noticed how they had these huge public spaces where people just hung out,” Jackson recalls. “I said, yeah, that’s a great idea Mr. Coyne, I support it. Now how do you want to do it?”
The result was a new commission made up of business and nonprofit leaders who, many months and public meetings later, recommended a three-pronged approach: enhance the Mall, build inviting pedestrian bridges over the highway to the waterfront and, most important, redesigning Public Square.

Mayor Jackson was adamant that it become a recreational space again. “I said I want you to eliminate all the streets and create one big park that’s pedestrian friendly,” Jackson says. “If you left it up to me, I would prohibit cars downtown altogether, because cars just mess up a city. But that was too radical, so my fallback would be this approach to Public Square.”

WHAT WORKS
The Spy Who Saved Cleveland
By KEITH EPSTEIN


Previous traffic studies had suggested closing Superior and Ontario to traffic would be impractical and create major problems for the public bus system. But the commission ordered another study, one that didn’t subscribe to the conventional wisdom. Superior Avenue could be reduced to a bus-only, at-grade lane as it crossed the park and Ontario could be cut off entirely. This was a game-changer, says Zoller, whose group had been devising plans for Public Square since 2002 and managed the project for the commission. “This let James Corner Field Operations have a lot more freedom,” she says.

Corner’s design in hand, the community came together to raise the $50 million investment. The public-private partnership was a clear rejection of the business versus public battle that had dominated the debate since the early 1800s.

Philanthropic foundations contributed nearly $14 million, corporate entities more than $8 million, and the city issued $8 million in tax increment financing bonds. Private and city utility companies kicked in $15 million in water, electric, sewer, and broadband replacements and upgrades. The state provided the final $3.5 million last year to close a budget gap, ensuring it would be completed before the GOP convention.

WHAT WORKS
The Cleveland Preacher Who Took on the Police
By ERICK TRICKEY


“By bringing in the business leadership and the downtown civic organizations we were able to leverage additional resources,” says Jeremy Paris, the Group Plan’s executive director. “At a time when there isn’t as much federal infrastructure spending, smart cities have to take the reins and to address their infrastructure and growth priorities.”

Public Square officially reopened June 30 with a marching band and a performance by the cheerleaders of the Cleveland Cavaliers, whose NBA championship victory only days before has the entire city on a high. “Like the Cavaliers, Cleveland has come back in a serious way,” says Lee Fisher, who is taking a leave as president of CEOs for Cities to serve as interim dean of the Cleveland State University’s law school. “I think that’s one of the reasons the RNC chose to come here: they saw the plans for Public Square and they could see we believed in ourselves.”

“Cleveland,” he added, the morning after the Cavaliers’ thrilling June 19 championship victory, “really is Believe Land now.”


Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2...5#ixzz4EKTxN4EO
Follow us: @politico on Twitter | Politico on Facebook