|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711
Dawg Talker
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,711 |
thanks for the reply....i'll admit i forgot about OUR offensive formation...bringing in another TE enables the double team  i was thinking 5 vs 5 (it was actually 6-5 with 1 te)....and you made it 7 vs 5 when you are talking about traping and pulling,,,,i don't remember traping but i do remember pulling and while you threw your right arm back (if you were pulling right) it was equally important to then throw your left arm parallel to the los.... i didn't recognize the cross blocking until you (or maybe it was eo) explained it.... we did that in one game....the d was a 4-3....both guards came down hard on the tackles, and the o tackles came around inside the guards and went for the backers..... the rb went right up the 2 hole, and never got touched.... the d never saw it coming...
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
You are right about our left side. We are so much more athletic than we have ever been. It's going to open so many things up for this offense. Many fans won't even notice it, but we are going to be able to run more formations and plays than we have in years past. It's going to be sweet. BgP: Quote:
It is really the game speed that I have a hard time visualizing. In my head it is just so fast, it's hard to imagine all these different stunts and movements...my head will explode. hehe
That's true and it is precisely why it is so important to get all the techniques and the necessary communication down before the games begin. I'm hoping they get a lot done in mini camp.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
thanks for the reply....i'll admit i forgot about OUR offensive formation...bringing in another TE enables the double team
i was thinking 5 vs 5 (it was actually 6-5 with 1 te)....and you made it 7 vs 5
*L* I did take advantage of you a little. Let me say that we could tweak that defense of yours and make it much more difficult to score.
Quote:
when you are talking about traping and pulling,,,,i don't remember traping but i do remember pulling and while you threw your right arm back (if you were pulling right) it was equally important to then throw your left arm parallel to the los....
Good point. Thanks.
Quote:
we did that in one game....the d was a 4-3....both guards came down hard on the tackles, and the o tackles came around inside the guards and went for the backers.....
the rb went right up the 2 hole, and never got touched....
the d never saw it coming...
Yeah, the thing w/cross blocking is you have to use it sparingly. If teams are looking for it, they'll blow the play up, for obvious reasons. However, if you don't use it much, it can lead to the confusion you spoke of.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,667 |
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15,188 |
well .. at least I got the Center right .. *LOL* .. should of quit then ... thanks for responding ... it helps me understand the concepts better .. a couple questions ...
how does zone blocking fare agaisnt the 3-4 as compared to the 4-3?? were in a division of 3-4 teams .... so thats important ...
does it really matter weather its a 3-4 or a 4-3 ...
One of the reasons I am not a big fan of Hank is he is not suited to block the brutes we have as NT's in our division (thats why i think La was a HUGE ASS SIGNING FOR US ... cause he could ahve blocked these guys 1 on 1) ... is the zone blocking scheme going to help him in that regard???
how much harder is it for the gaurds and or tackles to get to the 2nd level and get the LBers agaisnt a 3-4 if there always double teaming and sealing???
look forward to your answers ..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
In case anyone was looking to utilize Cross blocking with their team...I hope Merth is reading all this - You still coaching that Womens Team??? No insult - actually I think rather interesting and women are great to coach cause they seem to want to learn more than think they're too good to learn - from what I've seen.
Anyway as was mentioned almost always the outside guy goes first...if opposite than it might be more apt to call it a TRAP rather than a Cross Block.
But lets make it simple and say we are playing against a 4-4 stack D. DTs and DEs are playing straight over the LG n LT.
Both actually explode at the snap with a pull motion. LT - again with elbow n fist action opening the first right step - 2 o'clock - at the same time the LG is opening with his first step again with a pull motion elbow - fist - and leg as if attached like a puppeteers string - First step left - 9 o'clock.
Second steps now must be parrallel with the opposite foot of the first step...always - make movement with short choppy steps never over extending far from the other creating an unstable base. Not knowing the splits and the angle of the DLs rush - it might require another step (or I should say set of steps) to achieve contact.
I like my OLmen to plant (in this case LG left foot - and LT plant their right foot) their lead foot into the center of their target and swing the secondary foot parrallel to the lead foot in such a way that their butt is towards the intended hole or side of the run - creating a solid seal....upon swinging that secondary foot making a solid base to also punch at simultaneously.
Note in teaching - always go for perfection. Go step by step in slow walk through motion - if they over extend a step...simply give them a firm shove from the side and they will topple to stress a solid foundation when moving in the pit. But start out slow and then speed up the process only when the technique is PERFECT...faster n faster till the entire block is done within a split second.
This way even with undersized - over matched Linemen...you have created an excellent angle for the block and no matter how powerful that DLman is with a proper power base they must go through the OLman to make a tackle and that simply is not that easy to do as you have a proper seal on them.
The FB can shoot through and then its all upon the design of your play and tendencies that you as a coach have picked up in film or scouting. Maybe have the FB n Center Double the R-ILB n TE take the R-OLB in that 4-4...But if executed that simple play should have your RB one on one with the FS. But honestly you shouldn't utilize it unless you have athletic OLmen especially inside like that - It would be best to keep it TE - LT with a 5hole play with ISO with average OL skills.
Well had the time. Hope its okay if not clear I guess PM me
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
|
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
Quote:
well .. at least I got the Center right .. *LOL* .. should of quit then ... thanks for responding ... it helps me understand the concepts better .. a couple questions ...
You did pretty good, and at least you try and learn. Hell, you could just be one of those know-it-alls and say stuff like.........RAC can't make adjustments. RAC doesn't know offense. RAC is not tough enough. Fire him if they don't win 9 games. Maybe it has something to do w/the fact that you try to understand the game.
Quote:
how does zone blocking fare agaisnt the 3-4 as compared to the 4-3?? were in a division of 3-4 teams .... so thats important ...
does it really matter weather its a 3-4 or a 4-3 ...
Bro, I really don't know if there is a set theory to that one. I even tried looking it up, but couldn't find anything. All I can do is speculate, so keep that in mind.
We know that the 3-4 is geared to stop the run. So, it may give zone blocking more problems than a standard 4-3. Additionally, the LBers might cause a problem simply because there is an extra one. It's harder to block a LBer than a D-lineman.
On the other hand, zone blocking would be better than man blocking because even though you are blocking a man, or even two men...you still have an area. Remember, the rule is block the first man who crosses your face.
Also, zone blocking was created to deal w/movement, and we know that 3-4 Ds rely on a lot of movement. So, this would be a plus. In man blocking, it makes sense that guys would be left unblocked, and Lord knows.........we have seen that over and over and over w/our Browns.
Another positive-----in man blocking the rules change if the front changes. In zone blocking, the rules stay the same no matter what the front. Thus.......less confusion. Can you see how this is big? And how's come you never answer these little questions that I ask you? I gotta know if you are following what I'm saying, or if I am confusing the hell outta you. I wanna be clear and I worry that I am not communicating things properly.
Overall, I would think that zone blocking would be more effective than man blocking against the 3-4, but I can't document that.
Of the two.......I'm not really sure which defense would give zone blocking more trouble. On one hand, the activity of the LBers in a 3-4 could cause us problems, but on the other hand, a strong defensive linemen who doesn't allow the linemen get to the second level could also cause problems. Sorry, but I'm not sure about that one.
Quote:
One of the reasons I am not a big fan of Hank is he is not suited to block the brutes we have as NT's in our division (thats why i think La was a HUGE ASS SIGNING FOR US ... cause he could ahve blocked these guys 1 on 1) ... is the zone blocking scheme going to help him in that regard???
I think Hank would excel in a zone blocking scheme. He's a smart guy who studies a lot. He is technically sound. Probably our most technically sound o-lineman. He is very good at getting to the second level. I think he needs to lose some of that gut though. Hopefully he did. I'm pretty excited about him being w/Joe and Steiny. Man, we could do some things at the second level w/those three.
Quote:
how much harder is it for the gaurds and or tackles to get to the 2nd level and get the LBers agaisnt a 3-4 if there always double teaming and sealing???
I am not sure if I totally follow this question, but I'll take a stab. It would actually be easier for them to get to the second level because there are less defensive linemen to contend with.
Hmmm....let me think about what you are saying.........
----the doulbe teams are typically not long, bro. One guy drive blocks and the other angles into him and slams him, usually shoulder to shoulder, he then comes off and goes after the LBer. If the LBer is slow to read the play, then you stay on the double longer, but in the NFL, most LBers aren't that slow w/their recognition. So, it's quick.
----seal blocks are typically done on the backside. You just aren't permitting them to chase the ballcarrier down. You seal because it is safer than drive blocking. It's easier to slip a drive block than an area block. Occasionally, you will seal on the playside, but that is done by the outside guys, like the TE, when the play is run in the 1 or 2 holes.
The issue w/the LBers is actually that they are pretty athletic guys and are faster and more agile than offensive linemen. So........in space, they can avoid us as we approach the second level. Especially if your technique is flawed. Bro.....I can't emphasize enough how important it is for our guys to be working on technique and cohesion............in the spots where they are going to be playing this fall. I really think you are underestimating that.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Coach Talk: Zone Blocking
|
|
