DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Presidential Election Campaigns 2016 part 3

The current system hardly even allows an outsider to win the presidency. Look at what the DNC did to Bernie. The Democratic National Convention went out of its way to slander a fellow Democrat. They wanted to paint him as an atheist because they felt that would do him worse in the bible belt than being Jewish. There was a direct order from someone high up in the DNC to, in an unattributable manner, paint his supporters as violent and belligerent to discredit them. On and on it goes.

There is some circumstantial evidence to suggest electronic voter fraud/hacking although I'm not well read into that enough to make any claims there. I would say that very little would surprise me at this point.

The RNC tried to block Trump's nomination too, FWIW. He was just too popular and they underestimated him for far too long. They weren't able to stop him, but I'm sure you remember how Kasich and Cruz tried to work as a team to deny Trump from getting the majority of the delegates. That is less underhanded than what the DNC did for sure, but still nothing to be proud of. Having the voters speak and letting the results fall where they may would be something to be proud of.

About Johnson: He has no chance. He nor any other third party has a chance in 2020 either. People say that if he can just get to 15%, he can get into the debates, and maybe he can springboard that into a stunning win in this election (or maybe more realistically, next election). That's less likely than the Browns winning the Super Bowl this season, in my opinion. What will actually happen is a third party (Libertarian) that is more closely related to the conservative platform than the liberal platform will mostly take votes away from the Republicans, thereby effectively changing our two party system into a one party system. Some solution.

All I know is if that you are unwilling to fight for change........don't complain later on.

Trump IS change. At least give him that much. He is a complete political outsider, all the Democrats hate him, and a lot of Republicans do too. And for all his faults, I do genuinely believe that he wants to do what's best for the United States and its citizens. He is the one most likely to reduce the money in politics and to do what he, his staff, and the populace think is right, not what some sketchy foreign donor thinks is right.

A vote for Hillary is a vote for continued war, corruption, lies, and "extreme carelessness". A vote for Johnson is, well, basically halfway between a vote for Trump and Hillary. I live in a swing state. Another poster probably put it the best: if you live in a swing state, vote for Trump or Hillary. If you don't live in a swing state, vote for Johnson or Stein or whoever you're content with. Personally I will roll the dice with someone like Trump before I vote for someone like Hillary whose presidency would almost certainly be a disaster for our country.

Dude I fought hard for Bernie and donated too! He stood a much better chance than Johnson does of being elected. Johnson is struggling to get 15%, how is that going to get him to 270 electoral votes?

Even if many people decide to go third party, more libs would go Stein than Johnson. I just don't see how he can win. BUT if he can make it to the debates that might change, more likely though that he just hurts Trump (which would also be good).

Not really sure how so many of you are missing my intent.

Haus, I now believe Trump is a Clinton plant. Meaning, they (Bill and Hillary) talked him into running as a republican knowing that the bombastic side of him would come out and attract the worst in people. And that that would propel him firmly into the race.

However, I doubt they expected him to get this far. I don't really think anyone thought he'd get this far.

So now what?

Seriously, If I'm Hillary Clinton, I don't take all the bait. I sit back and watch the man Self destruct. He's doing a bang up job of that.

The stuff people make make up about others. Spread it around enough and the gullible ones eat it up.

If you actually think Trump is a Clinton plant, I don't know what to tell you.

If you say that in a semi-mocking manner because his strategy has been hard to pin down of late, so be it.

I'm not making anything up, it's what I believe. Simply because I don't think anyone can be nearly as incompetent as Trump or those that advise him.

I'm not sure how you could have a problem with an opinion.

Honestly, it's a little of both. I do believe he's a plant and yes, I'm saying it with a big ole smile on my face.. It's funny.

Just what is your intent?

Not even the people who say that actually believe it. It's satire...

edit: maybe I should say most of the people who say it. Clearly there are some people who do eat it up.

Clearly, I'm not one of those.. I actually believe it.

His strategy is fear, hate, bigotry, and racism. He's essentially a home grown terrorist. Not hard to pin down at all.

What is the most racist thing he ever said?

Pretty sure it is: If you're not going to exercise your right to vote don't complain about who we elect.

And that's part of why I believe he's a plant. I don't think Trump is any of those things.. He's playing a role. Republican Spoiler. Hard to refute given his outbursts of crazy!

This thread has gone off the rails. It's just silly accusations that have no basis in reality at this point. At least when I attack Hillary, I point to substantive talks, videos, leaks, and emails to prove my point.

Here is thirteen examples. You choose which is worse.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_us_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

I know she is but what is he And oh can we see a copy of those emails that prove any of your points? What was the worse email that was leaked?

He's been sued for denying to rent to minorities. He's called an American born judge a Mexican. He mocked a Muslim gold star family. The guy is an obvious blatant racist.

I won't give HP a single click if I can help it. They have already shown their outrageous bias in the past week alone. See: https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...t-2#Post1139042

You tell me what the worst example or examples are. Swish and I already had this discussion a while back by the way. I'll probably just refer back to those because the same few controversial statements always seem to come up

Well, I guess that is your opinion, but in all honesty, I don't think you are getting many folks that are agreeing with you and that might be why you think it's off the rails.

It's funny, but I've been part of this website for years, and in each election year, this has been a mostly conservative board. Most members seem to be republican or Libertarian with a dash of liberal.

But the push for the republican nominee this time around just isn't there as in past years.

I doubt that many people changed beliefs, I think it has more to do with the candidate. Trump divides even conservatives.

It seems like you have a misunderstanding about what race is. Let's break this down. Religion is not race. Country of origin is not race. Immigration status is not race. You're just recklessly applying anything that correlates with race with race itself which is just wrong.

The part about being sued for denying rent to minorities is the only legitimate thing you mentioned, let's just say that neither of us have a clue as to what happened there. At best we read a couple of articles about an event that happened with Trump's company that was settled 43 years ago. And I believe the Trump company's policy was to not rent to people with low income, which disproportionately affected minorities. But again, to say that any of us actually knew what went on there is confirmation bias at best.

He's not saying you're making anything up, he's saying you're gullible.

I don't mind when people disagree with me. I even expect certain amounts of exaggeration and that's fine. There's a certain line though. Once people start going off about a candidate being a plant or a homegrown terrorist or whatever with no evidence to back that up, it just gets silly. Go through my posts. Everything controversial I write is either sourced directly, has been sourced, or I make darn sure that if called out on it, I will be able to back up what I write.

I also stand strongly behind the idea that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so I hold back on some of my especially negative opinions on Hillary until they can be sufficiently proven. If that doesn't happen, it doesn't get posted, not by me anyway.

J/C

I think the only way to change things by voting for third party candidates is to start now and continue each year hoping the third party voters increase until they are substantial enough to send the message that voters are not satisfied with the status quo. It could take the next four or five presidential elections to reach the point that it makes a difference.

One thing that struck me is that at least some of those things go back many years ...... or even decades ..... to when the Trumps were fast friends with the Clintons.

Why, because I have an opinion that runs contrary to his?

I'm not really adding anything to the debate here. However I must say that while we disagree on quite a few things, I must give you credit for debating things in a well thought out and reasonable manner. It's nice to see a civil dialogue in these political discussions.

Now if you could only get your candidate to do the same..... lol

Thanks Pit.

And yes, I do wish he would dial things back a bit. A couple weeks ago would have been a really good time to do that (well I think he has to an extent, but not enough).

I think I get it.
The point isn't necessarily to win it all in 2016 (or even 2020). The point is to change the conversation.

Change the conversation/change the voters' focus.
Change the voters' focus, change the culture.
Change the culture/change the landscape.

It's a marathon, not a sprint... but both races begin with a starting line.

Is that the point?

i'm more amazed at the fact that posters who swear up in down they know what they're talking about, seem to honestly believe that Trump is an outsider.

There isn't anything outsider about him. yall honestly believe that crap?

lolololololol

Apparently we can't, as she was allowed to delete them - well, 30,000 of them. But, that's not tampering with evidence, is it.

Now, the nsa has them, but the FBI refused them because of laws that would make them moot in court. (or maybe I have that backwards - maybe the nsa refused to release them to the fbi for that reason)

We DO know that, in the investigation in congress, Senator Chaffetz was told point blank by a McCullogh fellow that he can't discuss some of the e-mails because they are/were so confidential that not even the senate could know about them. And Chaffetz replied "so, these e-mails are so sensitive that we can't see them, but Clinton was free to send them to people with NO security clearance?" When questioned what agency had said that, McC. replied "I'm not even allowed to tell you that."

There's video of it Seems to me I posted it already.

But, fear not. Someone just might very well have those e-mails.

Ever hear of an October surprise? At this point, there's a decent chance the e-mail thing isn't over yet.

Shamelessly quoting myself. I haven't followed Jill Stein much, but I just scrolled through her Twitter, and it looks like even she is on the #rigged bandwagon.

Many of Clinton accusations go back decades as well and were never proven. Trump has proven time and time again he's a racist.

Of course she is. Any third party / independent candidate *needs* to say that.

Haus brings up a valid point.

Mexican isn't a race, it's a ethnicity, or nationality, whichever one prefers

what Haus doesn't realize is that word play doesn't make it any better. hell, it might make it worse.

the proper term, depending on who you ask, is ethnic racism. which sounds even worse.

So i want to thank Haus. Bro, with education, you have now succeeded in making me dislike Trump even more than i already have.

Thanks bro.

That is insanity.

I'm not a member of either party. I'm going to vote for Gary Johnson because IMO neither of the two major parties are running a candidate worthy of my vote. I'm hoping maybe you can help me understand something though.

Hillary was a gimme for the GOP. She would have been beaten handily, even with a guy like Romney. Any decent candidate would have won by a landslide.

So what happened to the Republican party to get their voters into promoting such a divisive candidate like Donald Trump? Why did they seemingly try to shoot themselves in the foot this way? I just don't understand what the voters were thinking.