DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Kaepernick refuses to stand for National Anthem

I just don't get it. You guys are trashing him for what? An anthem? Symbolism?

It makes me wonder, do you guys dislike him for that, the issues he trying to bring up, or both?

That's an honest question. I'm not gonna address the actual issues because that's what EE is for. However, in sticking with a tailgate forum, what's the problem with not standing up for the playing of the anthem?

Damn, man! Seriously. You take unbelievable freedoms in stating things.

Where did I say it doesn't matter? Honestly.

Discussing with you is like talking to a brick wall that hears nothing, but states something I didn't even say.

Well you said all the good things you do.

You rounded it off by saying it doesn't make you a good person.

So I don't understand how you could do all those things, and yet it doesn't matter if it doesn't help make you a good person.

You said this, right?

"that make me good? Hell no."

As far as your brick wall statement, that's how I feel about you as well. I'm glad we agree that talking to each other is basically pointless. I hope that makes you stop talking reply to me. That would be nice.

What, you aren't going to say hate me? Despise me? Threaten to knock me out if we ever meet?

Nah, but I really hope you'd stick to the topic at hand. Just once. We're talking about why Colin should have to donate to prove anything.

Actually, if you want to go the whole "stick to the thread title" route, we're talking about Kap refusing to stand for the national anthem.

Thanks for playing.

Well you and other mentioned donating money and such as doing something positive.

I'm asking why is it needed to donate money. Why can't he be good just speaking up about it?

Why does there have to be stipulations as to how somebody brings up an issue?

A lot of thoughts, let's see if I can put these in a coherent order..

1. I hate that people get so cynical when celebrities do anything. Whether its a form of protest or a charity thing, it's like some people always [censored] conversation on what a QB "should look like".

3. I have no idea what else he is doing to advance his cause... not my job to know. Refer back to point #1, if we don't hear about a celeb donating a lot of time and money, we [censored] lot more...

A lot of thoughts, let's see if I can put these in a coherent order..

1. I hate that people get so cynical when celebrities do anything. Whether its a form of protest or a charity thing, it's like some people always assume there is some ulterior motive.. that they can't just be doing what they feel they need to do.

2. The fact that he was raised wealthy and is currently wealthy and has never really lived what he is making a statement about is irrelevant. The dude has seen racism. Heck, when he burst on the scene a few years ago there was a big conversation on whether a QB should be all tatted up the way he is.. there were some serious racial undertones to that whole conversation on what a QB "should look like".

3. I have no idea what else he is doing to advance his cause... not my job to know. Refer back to point #1, if we don't hear about a celeb donating a lot of time and money, we assume he/she isn't doing enough.. if we do know about it, we assume they are doing it for the praise or to help their reputation, and if they do donate money, we poo-poo it as not being enough considering how much money they have... they can't win.

4. This is the obvious, but he's ok to do it and people are ok to think whatever they want about it.

5. My only issue with it is that he has taken the straight-line BLM stance and placed this all on the cops.. seemingly ignoring a lot of other issues within and surrounding the black community. Had he taken a broader "stop violence" approach, I would be able to get behind him a whole lot more...

good stuff man.

i have a question.

#5...shouldn't you refer to #3 for that. did he ignore those other issues, or are you just assuming he/she hasn't.

i just ask because this idea that if you can't advocate for one issue without also addressing another is confusing.

for example. let's say i advocate for......Mongolian women to get equal pay. why is it that i have to also advocate for mongolian men to get equal pay?

why can't i just be focused on that issue? don't they have others already advocating for mongolian men? so why act as though i ignored mongolian men just because i feel really strongly about the inequality of pay for mongolian women?

so i have to take up the entire platform, and not just a specific issue i feel strongly about? especially when there are others already advocating for different issues?

He's very oppressed.

In this instance I'm going off of his own words when asked to explain his actions.. the part below is what is being reported. Clearly, he is referencing dead blacks in the streets and cops not getting punished for it.. if he has said anything else, please let me know.. that's all I've seen.




I guess where we may be differing is that I see it as all one issue.. just different subparts of the same issue.. cops killing unarmed blacks, blacks targeting cops, blacks killing each other... all part of the same issue.

So I guess advocating for one part of that issue is what I'm not a fan of..

Let me put it this way... inner city poverty. A problem with many different facets.... If I advocate from the perspective that inner city blacks just need to make smarter decisions.. you are going to take issue with that, you already have many times. Do inner city blacks need to make smarter decisions? Yes, many do but that is only one thing because of the number of causes and effects that go into it...

So taking the stance that cops need to stop shooting unarmed black men, without addressing the other aspects surrounding it.. seems a bit disingenuous to me.

I see what you're saying.

The only thing I have to say about this, as we have EE to use for more detailed discussion, is that that's one of the big obstacles we face.

You think it falls under one issue. Others do not.

It should be a league wide enforced policy that everyone stands for the anthem. No exceptions, period.

That sounds authoritarian and communist.

The 1st Amendment works for everyone.

I agree, but I am almost positive that the NBA does make their players stand during the National Anthem.

Remember that guy for the Denver Nuggets back in the 90s who was suspended by the league for not standing during the National Anthem?

Let him sit during the playing of the National Anthem. It's where he's going to be during the games. I think he should be allowed to do what he excels at.

bby no

If it is in their contracts that they must do as the league says in regards to items such as this, then the league would be within its Rights to enforce it --- HOWEVER, the Bill of Rights are inalienable Rights. A decent lawyer could probably argue that section of the contract is unConstitutional and not valid.

Yep, and one cannot argue with it. We just get to sit back and watch all the jersey burning videos of his now.

or just shrug and ignore all of it. It's just one person spouting one opinion.

And that's fair but that is also what leads to the stalemate we see in these discussions... "Yea, but...." is where it always ends up. Somebody makes a valid point from the BLM perspective and the response is always "Yea, but..." some point from the cops perspective.. and nobody really listens.

The flip side, I suppose, is the speech given by the NBA players at the beginning of the ESPYs.. it was a very good presentation and fairly neutral in stating that all sides have to do better. Therein lies the problem, it wasn't controversial.. therefore it was in the news for all of about 24 hours before it was forgotten. If you want something to stay in the news, it has to be controversial, to be controversial, you almost have to pick a side... it's sad, but that is kind of where we are...

This may be an unpopular opinion but I couldn't care less if he stands for the National Anthem or not. I don't think it makes him unAmerican, I don't view it as a slight against the military, it just is what it is to me. The flag and the song are symbols, if he isn't proud of what they symbolize right now, take the good with the bad... and remain seated. I don't put a lot of weight into those kinds of symbols, just like flying a confederate flag doesn't make you a racist, sitting for the national anthem doesn't make you unAmerican.. it's all how YOU view those symbols and what they mean to YOU...

From my previous comment on cynicism, I do have to wonder how committed he is to change. Yes, sitting for the anthem makes a statement.. is he willing to do more? Go further? How about sitting out a game and foregoing that big 6 figure game check? That would make a bigger statement.

Good post.

I don't think this is a huge deal, even though it is a "big deal" on Sports Talk right now. I listened to that stuff all the way home from NC yesterday.

The only comment I'll make is that the guy brings up oppression and he is making something like $15 million a year.

Think it might be closer to 20 million but who's counting..

This is what his ex teammate had to say which sums it up for me..

It’s hard for me, because my brother was a Marine, and he lost a lot of friends over there,” Boone told USA TODAY Sports. “That flag obviously gives (Kaepernick) the right to do whatever he wants. I understand it. At the same time, you should have some (expletive) respect for people who served, especially people that lost their life to protect our freedom.

“We’re out here playing a game, making millions of dollars. People are losing their life, and you don’t have the common courtesy to do that. That just drove me nuts.”

Love the quote: were out here playing a game, making millions of dolllars..

I mentioned him above, Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf.

It's a free country last I checked. This is a none issue except all the haters gotta hate and they will. And that's his issue. Haters are gonna hate on him. Have a nice season Mr K......

"Over men and horses hoops and garters
Lastly through a hogshead of real fire!
In this way Mr. K. will challenge the world!"

It's absolutely a non-issue in a larger sense, and he has every Right to do (not do) what he did. Conversely, everyone else still has the same Right to criticize him for it. That's the beauty of a Right

+1

A true critique is not overpowered with hate. But I know that's not the world we live in these days of.. "making America hate again."

Relatively speaking...


Yes they are. When he places 100% of the blame for this at the feet of police officers, I assure you people are going to take exception with it... regardless of the means he uses to convey his message.

It's his right to look like an idiot.

He may do actual productive stuff on his own time to further the cause, but if you think sitting during the national anthem is a productive way to get your message out, then your definition of productive is different than mine.

The real bummer about all this, imo, is that his little "demonstration" probably did more harm than good. At best, most are talking about him being an idiot and a loser vs the real issue at hand. At worst, his idiocy is linked to the movement itself, weakening it. I hope he realizes how he's a distraction and hurting the movement he says he's supporting.

And to the point of him being an idiot... He's a walking contradiction. He's disrespecting the country in which he gets paid a disgusting amount of money to suck at the job he's supposed to do while others have nothing. No, it's not fair Colin, but maybe you should do more yourself before blaming the country that allowed you to make life you have.

j/c

I read it somewhere yesterday, some article that I can't find now, but the nfl has a policy of this: We encourage players to stand for the n.a., but it is not a rule for them to do so."

He didn't break any nfl rule.


He's catching crap, though, and that's just fine.




Anyone see a picture of the n.y. giants during the anthem?

Now, tell me how that matters in any way. People have their own Rights to say what they think of him and his actions/choices - perceived to be hate filled or not. What they say does NOT have to meet anyone's interpretation of what they feel a so-called "true critique" may or may not be.

There is intense Black racism towards Whites in this country.

If you don't know that and you're white, you need to exercise your right to have a drink in any bar in Hough.

This just is so ironic to me. As a biracial individual, he is considered black as far as a census goes.

He may be cut a check for a cool 12 million when he is cut. That is more than many of us will actually ever see in a lifetime of work.

And he complains about supression?

IMO, I see a lot of it as hating on someone for what they believe in, and that's not criticism, it's just hate.

Since i was one that mentioned money I'll explain my reasoning, but I didn't just mention donations, i also said things like press statements, news columns etc, My reasoning behind that is the delivery of the message, alot more people will listen to the message when its delivered without something negative attached to it. So all he has really accomplished is alienated a majority of population, majority of his peers, drawn unnecessary attention to himself and noone is talking about the issue he did it for. For me its not necessarily about the money or whatever, its just if you're going to take a stand on something, that should be the only thing being talked about. In the same sense, if he did just come out and talk about it without following it up with some positive actions to help the problem, then people would discuss how is he in a position to talk about oppression. You can't just say something bothers you, do something like what he did and not follow up with some type of solution or aid in the solution.

He imo, is one of the last people that should be doing what he did, he's a multimillionaire, he's lived a charmed life, was punished by NFL for making racial slurs at black players...not sure he's the guy i'd want championing my issues.

i feel you bro.

Criticism delivered with vehemence or anger is not always hate.
If anything, it merely highlights how much his actions & words offend some.