DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Gangbangers Kill White Teen Girl

Wheres that killer pit bull you all had for protection

Never claimed to "know all." However, I know more about myself than you do.

I know you are the self-proclaimed "king," but really, you don't know more about people you have never met than they know about themselves.

Huh?

He made this dumb-ass comment:



He does not know what I have done, where I have lived, who I hung with, etc.

And of course, I got ideas from other programs. It's called research. It's called being prepared. It's called trying to take what is good from what already exists and trying to make it better.

Now, go back and play w/your boyfriends.

Except you haven't paid attention to anything King has said.

King grew up in the inner city as well. I did as well. But you blow us off as if we don't know what we're talking about.

Good for you, then you already know a lot more about it than I do. So how do you reach the next generation of gang members before it's too late? What kind of motivation needs to be provided for them to choose a better path?

And look how they all stick together. Y'all are so cute.

Isn't that what you wanted? Unity amongst white and black?

You got it on this board, yet all you can do is complain.

Anyways, now that I'm done with the vers...

DC, excellent question.

The college education system is a huge motivator, and also a huge deferment.

For example, over 800 public colleges have recently dropped the ACT/SAT requirement in order to go to school.

We already have debated about the public grade school system and such, and how the testing affects certain demographics as well as quality of education as a whole.

So that's a huge barrier dropped.

Now, some posters might think that's a bad thing. I get why some might think so.

However, I will use myself as an the example. CSU is one of those schools that doesn't require test scores anymore.

And thank god, because I would've bombed those joints.

After this fall/spring semester, I will have my degree in supply chain management. After summer classes and fall 2017/spring 18, I will have the double major in international business, and then start working on my MBA.

I have a 3.2 currently. No SAT/ACT.

***disclaimer*** I'm not saying every hood kid will be like me. I'm simply saying there will be success stories.

However, the flip side that the college system is a deferment is the cost: even CSU has got more expensive. It's just under 10k a year to go, and it's more of a commuter school.

So DC, I know you and a few others won't get offended by what I say, so hopefully the others don't either:

One thing plaguing inner city kids from going to college is that the media portrays college school debt as a white kid problem.

Blacks are seeing these white kids from CSU and the private school Case Western Reserve go into massive debt, and they want absolutely no part in that. Inner city kids, specifically people trying to not be involved in gang life, are already starting off life below ground zero. Trying to convince them that paying for ANY sort of education, trade school or not, is gonna be a problem.

Now, the reality is that we have 8 million + jobs available. The reality is also that a lot of these jobs require education. So these low skills jobs that require no degree, well, everybody is applying for those already.

So the goal is to figure out how to connect with inner city youth,mans focus them in on these jobs currently available.

There's needs to be some sort of effort, not only from our government, but from people at our level, that not only does tuition cost need to be lowered, but we have to have people in poverty view education not as a debt, but as an investment.

Also, the reality is that the world is moving to a global economy. It's coming.

So we have to teach these kids who most likely have never even left their city, let alone state, that it isn't just America that they have a chance to find employment oppurtunities, but all over the world.

That's just my opinion though.

Petey's enjoying his quiet retirement...
on Mike Vick's ranch....

Ok, I get what you are saying.. you mention not having an ACT/SAT standard for college, which is fine.. and the quality of education being afforded inner city kids isn't as good. I get that too. But there has to be some kind of standard to know whether a kid is going to be able to handle college right? If we drop the traditional standards, what can we use? Look, white kids wash out of college too, for a lot of reasons... but if we aren't going to use grades as testing as a standard, what do we do? We can't just let everybody in and see who washes out and who sticks, can we? Is it the community college system that needs to help serve as that bridge? Go there first and prove yourself for $3K a year before we make the $10K/year investment in you? Just a thought.

There is this perception, and you tell me if it's wrong and if so by how much... but there is this perception that a lot of kids are brought up in the hood (more by their peers than their parents) to believe that college is some kind of a cop out... that it's "acting white".. that it makes you a sell out.. that there is "no nobility" in getting a $40K/year job with an insurance firm and wearing khakis to work every day like Jake, from State Farm... Does that exist? Is it a major problem? Minor problem? If it's a major problem, how do you convince a kid that he should work his butt off for a few more years so he can get a job at State Farm making $40K/year.. when he can make more than that when he's 19 selling drugs?


I think college debt is a middle class problem. Rich kids don't really worry about it because mom and dad have it covered, there is a ton of aid and grants out there for poor kids... but that whole class in the middle that never made enough to save a lot for college but makes too much to qualify for a lot of aid and grants... those are the ones, in my opinion, that are really stuck.

We already have testing just to even make it out of high school.

I dunno what it's called now, but in 2005 when I graduated we had the Ohio proficiency test.

Didn't pass the test, can't graduate.

Look at the college drop out rates. Obviously ACT/SAT scores don't mean much. Especially when there's so many reasons kids drop out that have nothing to do with how they actually perform in class. I had a friend score high on the SATs, only to drop out simply because he was burned out with school.

Your point with perception is a good one, but I would attack that with a different angle.

Again, just speaking for myself and the people in my circle, it wasn't so much the fact that those jobs made it seem like someone was acting white.

It was the idea that those jobs are only jobs that white people could get because they spent all that money on education.

Growing up, I just didn't see a ton of people work those jobs. The only minorities we saw actually make it were kids that got sports scholarships to college. Or made it out in the music industry.

We didn't see any minorities work those...say, State Farm jobs. We only saw older minorities work typical service jobs like t mobile or footlocker. Minimum wage jobs basically.

And then I saw my parents go from 20 years in the military a piece, to struggling to find decent work.

I grew up thinking whites didn't want us working with them as accountants or something. Obviously now that I got some skin in the game, that's false.

But as a teen, you didn't see those people working that kind of jobs. Why? Because people with those jobs don't live in the hood.

My parents never blamed anybody for their problems, by my friends and their parents sure did. So what ended up happening was I was making excuses for my parents growing up, you know what I mean?

Edit: and what I mean by your perception point being good is that it's valid. There are some who absolutely view it that way.

I'm just saying there's another side to it.

And DC, you would be absolutely correct.

College debt is an everybody problem. I get tons of grant money, but still have to take out loans to attend university. EVERYONE does. It's not a problem built into class.

So I see what you are saying but you didn't exactly answer the question. Are you saying that passing high school proficiency test should be enough to get you into college? And if so, which college? Any state college? Obviously private colleges can use whatever measure they choose to admit...


that's cool. My perception is really all I've got and that notion that black kids are discouraged from working the 9-5 to get out of the hood is one that is commonly thrown around by us white folk. Just wanted to ask if there was any merit to it.

Your counter makes perfect sense because it's hard to dream something or imagine something being possible for you if you have never actually seen it happen to somebody LIKE YOU. And let's be honest, they don't do specials on tv on hood kids who made it out to become a Project Manager for XYZ Construction who makes $80K/year.... they run those shows on hood kids who made it out to become millionaires playing ball or making music..... And the hood kid who did make it out to make $80K/year, he/she isn't coming back....

I think that is the group that could have the biggest impact on the hood kids.... Not the LeBrons of the world.. it's great that he does what he does but 99% of these kids know deep down, they ain't LeBron... so what's left for them? They need somebody to show them you do well in many many other fields.

We have been doing some diversity outreach for a while now, trying to add some "flavor" to our pasty white engineering office... and it's HARD. The people just aren't there. We can find some Indians, once in a while an Asian, almost all males.. but to find a black engineering student is very hard. Finding a black female engineering student... hell you might as well be looking for a unicorn. We've even been going to places like NC A&T and other HBCU's in the area, trying to get some into our co-op rotation...

That's the thing: I don't know.

I feel like if you can pass the standardized test in high school in order to graduate, then that should be fine for community college or public universities.

Private schools can set whatever standard they want. If they choose to continue requiring SAT/ACT scores, that's them.

Case western reserve cost like 50k a year. I drive by the campus everyday to my peasant public school lol. Obviously they have no issue with students forking up the cost for tuition and the testing standards.

I'm not an educator, so I won't pretend to know the ins and outs of it. However, I do view it as a good thing that a ton of public schools dropped that standard.

Especially because older people (25 and up) have been removed from school for a little bit. Doing the real life grind and all that.

So my answer is I have no clue. All I know is that I have personal benefited and taken advantage of the opportunity presented to me. That's all I can do as one man.

As far as your engineering problem, it makes since.

I don't think I'm anywhere near smart enough to pull something like that off in school. I always thought construction and building/creating things was cool, but I always assumed most engineers found out their paths because their suburban high schools allowed them to explore that type of industry.

It's amazing how many threads you completely hijack w/your BS.

Is that why you're hated in pure football?

I'm enjoying reading a good back and forth between two different backgrounds. It gives us a fantastic perspective. I think education is a relevant topic when discussing gang issues.

fify

Being honest, I don't dislike Vers let alone hate him. He's just a guy on the Internet lol.

You'd have to really go out of your way for me to legitimately hate someone on the Internet.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/06/opinion/black-activists-dont-ignore-crime.html?_r=0


Relevant article.

Its hard to tell a kid with a hungry belly to go to school instead of work.

It's hard to tell a kid not to join a gang when he will get stabbed or shot if he doesn't.

It's hard to tell a kid he needs college when he see so many kids fresh out of college burdened with 20 years of debt and still stuck working in mcdonalds or can't find a job because he is now overqualified and the manager is scared he will take his job if he hires him.

When you make it possible and profitable to leave the hood the people will leave in a heartbeat.

If you took everyone nationwide who is on welfare and/or out of work and put them to work growing food in aquaponic greenhouses and building free housing cob style. In 50 years everyone in the USA would have a free house and free organic fish and vegetables for the rest of their lives. The cost of welfare would plummet and you could reinvest into making each kid got to college for free.

I understand it is hard. If it was easy, it would have been accomplished already.

That does NOT mean we have to just accept things and not try to improve the situation.

It will take a gigantic effort in which entire communities unite. There is true power when people unite for a common cause.

I understand that it is easier to point fingers, play the blame game, and be narrow minded than it is to work hard, show intestinal fortitude, and unite w/others.........but, I think the rewards would justify the efforts.

I think it really comes down to the break down of the family system in our country. Thats not a black nor white issue, kids have no guidance anymore. Either it is a single mother(or sometimes single father) or both parents working to death to try and survive. Which can take place anywhere, but when you go into socioeconomically disadvantaged areas that street life is an easy distraction when their is no guidance. If it changes, it will have to start at home. I am not sure how this happens.

AUTHOR: Socrates (469–399 B.C.)
QUOTATION: The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers.

Source

Sorry, was gone for three days for referring to someone as a certain colorfully decorated circus performer.

As I stated above, I am not sure if they can , as a whole, be reached from the outside. It has to start at home.

Except for certain people whining,as usual. I think this is a good conversation. So I will put my story out there as an example. This is an individual story, and each has their own. My earliest memoriesas a child were me living with my Uncle outside of Ravenna Ohio in a nice big house out in the country, it was great. My cousin, who is the same age as me spent hours riding dirt bikes and go karts,and running around the woods. My uncle worked hard but spent the weekends taking us racing , first go Karts , then legends cars, and I my cousin dropped out but my Uncle still built a 1/4 midget sprint car for me and we spent many weekends traveling and racing.

I was only vaguely aware of my father. My father was in an Ohio prison for statutory rape of my babysitters 17 year old daughter, Come to find out later he did his sentence at Lima, which at that time was the State Prisons hospital prison. My mother passed away when I was very young, I hae no memories of her. So here I am as a young child and my father gets out of prison and comes and takes me back. So I am being raised in Kent, Ohio by a single, abusive alcoholic father. We live in an apt complex in Kent called Silver Meadows, that everyone referred to as Silver Ghettos. My life growing up was regular involvement with Childrens services and police coming to the house. Going to school with black eyes and making up stories as to why I had them. My Dad was always at work or at the bar. So from about 6 years old on I was home alone and running around the complex.

So anyways, cut to about 7th grade, my Dad met a woman who he eventually married , and is still married to like 25 years later. But she lived on the near west side of Cleveland. Well at that time Cleveland had forced busing so I was sent to Patrick Henry Junior High in the Glenville neighborhood. Maybe a ten minute walk up the street and you are in East Cleveland. Getting kicked off the school bus and having to catch the RTA bus to school was definitely interesting. So I do eighth grade there and the way the rotation worked out I went to HS at the neighborhood HS,Lincoln West. Most have probably never heard of LW. The most famous people to come out of LW were Bone Thugs and Harmony , and Ariel Castro. Bone Thugs the same years as me , but Castro was like 1979.

But its like has been said , there was strength in numbers. Gang culture is not as structured as what is presented. Its usually just a bunch of young folks from a certain area that bind together to protect themselves, and then eventually it kind of takes on a name and an identity. But I needed that. I was an athlete and that was cool when athletic activities were going on but I still needed something in the neighborhood. I needed to be able to walk up to the store or wherever and feel somewhat safe. I needed to be able to identify who was safe and who wasnt. The story that started this thread is an extreme. But thats not really what it is like. Yeah there was some crime, there was drugs, or people who were thieves, there were some fights, we had some beef with some other gangs from other areas. But really nothing was going on that you wouldnt see at your average young peoples party.We were a pretty mixed group as far as race. Lot of Puerto Rican, maybe slightly less whites, and a few blacks. But probably most of us had no guidance at home. But the summer of 1990 things got crazy, and I think a lot of it was fueled by the explosion of Gangster rap and movies like Colors and Boys in The Hood. It was almost like we had a guide on how we were supposed to bang. So we were warring with The Folks from farther out on the west side. Fights became worse, weapons were brought into play, peoples houses were getting bricks thrown through the windows, it was crazy. Well to cut the story short, a good friend of mine was killed outside of a corner store I was on my way to, to meet up with some of the guys. I wasnt there but heard the gunshots and got there at the same time as the ambulances. Hector died later at the hospital and we buried him in Puerto Rico. I was dating his sister at the time. But I was scared, and I had athletics to keep me away from all that, and their were people even within the gang who kept me from being too deep because they knew I had a future in football. So I went away and played a couple years of D2 football and when I came back I married my first wife whose father was a 30 year veteran of the Cleveland Police Dept. But her family became my family and that guidance showed me a better way. If not when I came back I would have probably been in the same neighborhood, around the same people.

Sorry to talk so long about my story, but I wanted to show my story to back up my belief that the answer to the problem starts at the family.

I kind of also think that relates to what Swish was saying about tribalism

Wow, how true is that? Its a breakdown of society that starts at home. But why do you think it is ? My feeling is it is because we we are so distracted by BS

If we go by Socrates, society has always been breaking down. This isn't some sudden thing where we once had glory days.



Check out Swish's and Lurker's perspective. They hit close to the mark.

I am going to say this, and we hopefully we can bury the hatchet and stop the BS.

I applaud your efforts, I really do. But I hate to say this , but they may be futile. It has to start from within. We saw people like you from the outside all the time but we tended to blow outsiders off ams people who just will never understand us. Not saying we were correct, but it was our mind set back then. I suppose looking back, it is a defense mechanism. What was the saying we used to use sometimes? I think it went " we all we got" , because we had all been let down for most of our lives by outsiders and the system. And even our own home lives. So we had each others back and FTW. Outsiders were people you couldnt trust. undercover narcs, or jus people who wanted to exploit us or hurt us. We were very cynical the world, for maybe good reasons.

Why I am almost to offended to speak. Crossing their legs, how dare they What's next are they going to stop bowing and curtsying

You keep assuming that you really know me. You act like I have never been there. That I am a true outsider. You have no clue about my past and what I have done and where I have been.

Stop assuming things and help me w/the cause. I think we both want to help. I think we both feel empathy for people of poverty. Let's stop fighting and instead work to solve the problem.

Please?

That says outsider, right there.

LOL.........great answer.

Lol

How is that funny?

Do you know that people can escape poverty? Or, is it more honorable to stay impoverished?

You don't believe kids listen to people who have been there and have escaped?

Goodness!

I thought his response was funny.

Seeing as how I've already address your questions in previous post that you STILL have yet to respond to, I feel no need to repeat myself.

I can see the headline now......"Two Bickering Foes from Internet Message Board Bury Hatchet to Solve Poverty".

Sub-headline:

"Swish misinterprets meaning of their 'joint resolution'."