DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Fired Scouts Who Favored Wentz

Many of the Browns scouts fired before the draft favored Carson Wentz
The Browns eventually traded down following the Rams' move up for Jared Goff

Jason La Canfora mugshot
by Jason La Canfora @JasonLaCanfora 5h ago • 1 min read

The Browns' decision to pass on Carson Wentz in the draft combined with the rookie's sterling performance against them in Week 1, a potential season-ending injury to Browns starter Robert Griffin III and comments from Browns official Paul DePodesta intimating the Browns didn't believe Wentz would be a "top-20 quarterback" have created a tempest in Cleveland. As it turns out, not everyone involved in scouting quarterbacks in Cleveland before the 2016 draft was in agreement.

According to numerous sources with knowledge of the situation, several of the more seasoned scouts and evaluators the Browns parted with prior to the draft -- an unusual time to release such employees -- actually preferred Wentz to quarterback Jared Goff and believed him to be the greater pro prospect. It was clear to many in the organization dating back to December, when the Browns held intense draft meetings, that the newly-empowered analytics department, soon to be spearheaded by DePodesta, strongly preferred Goff. And new coach Hue Jackson and his offensive coordinator, Pep Hamilton, were not high on Wentz but prized Goff, sources said, and made that clear to the rest of the organization.

The Browns opted to release six members of the organization -- many of them experienced, old-school scouts -- just three weeks before the draft. At the time, they were bailing on the quarterback market in the draft (and Wentz in particular) and shopping their second-overall pick to other teams. Many of those men, a group that included former general managers and personnel directors, had never met DePodesta personally before being let go, and, with their contracts set to expire after the draft, they were going to be let go in 2016 as part of downsizing anyway.

But the timing of their release raised eyebrows then and continues to generate chatter now given the high-profile way in which their quarterback decision has played out and the fact that the segment of personnel they let go were more pro-Wentz than others.

Wentz has played just one game, and will surely face some hurdles in his rookie season, but the reviews on his debut were overly positive. The Browns could end up with the first pick in the draft, and evaluators are already gushing over Notre Dame junior quarterback DeShone Kizer. The Browns will almost certainly be taking a passer very high in 2017.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/many-o...d-carson-wentz/

Of course it's by La Canfora, who trashes us whenever he can

It never ends w/the Browns.

We're getting rid of people who fired Wentz over Goff? Oh no. I wonder if the 49er scouts got fired for thinking that Alex Smith was gonna be better than Aaron Rodgers. Honestly, if they preferred Wentz, over Goff, then this should have happened awhile ago.

I'm not happy passing on Wentz but this is sensationalism from a guy who gets his kicks bashing the Browns.

Well, posters hated on the FO for the two years of drafting, right? Then this should be a good thing.

Of course all the fired guys like Wentz now. They are looking for jobs. If we'd heard this earlier I'd give it more credence. Could be true, but more than Goff doesn't mean they liked him at the top of the draft.

Agreed. Wentz has had 1 good game and it was against US. It doesn't mean he is going to be a good qb. Time will tell and it's way to soon.

The scouts of the Brown's past have no right to say they even know how to do their job to begin with much less complain they were fired after the horrible drafts we have had.

Everything is just peachy in Berea!!!

Generally speaking, people are pretty pissed off at the past FO and their draft selections. Thus, people should be ecstatic that this is the case.

If Coleman keeps playing like he did today, I can sleep at night.

Very few saw it as highly unusual at the time,most thought it was no big deal.
If this is true,it dispels the collaborative thinking mantra the FO has been putting out there.

Pretty sure those same scouts were partially responsible for the Browns rosters and past drafts. I highly doubt they were let go for their "Wentz" evaluation and how can anyone validate that? Just another JLC bashing of the Browns.

A few years ago people were saying the Redskins outmaneuvered the Browns for RG3......

Wentz had one game against the Browns Defense, on a team that has plenty of offensive talent. He played very well but it was one game. Wait till teams have game film on him and can scheme for his weakness and then we will see how he looks. If he is still tearing it up then and only then can people evaluate the Browns move.

JMO

I keep seeing Kizer's name mentioned .... He's not coming out .. He's not close to ready and he knows it ..

I do enjoy watching him play .. We could do a lot worse than him .. To bad he's not going to be available in the next draft ..

I could care less.. everyone on this board and in the world knew Wentz was a top 3 qb in this years draft..

Because guys who are in the running for the #1 pick usually stay in school. . .

Diam is a huge fan of Notre Dame. You might wanna check your snarky attitude in this situation.

AHH Jason

They are bad moneyballers

and every time, my brain auto-completes his name with "Soze".

I know it's very early in his career but Wentz looks like a superstar in the making. It angers me to think he could have been ours but NO! The front office had to trade down for extra picks they wasted instead.

You're right, they manage to set picks on fire before they've even used them....

edit: or were you saying they tucked the picks in their boxers?

the thing that's been impressive about Wentz is his control of the huddle, formations, and pocket. He just moves and acts like he's under control and dictating things. THat's a big step.

WIll he struggle? for sure. But thus far the returns have been good.

I would not call Coleman, Schobert a waste. And we havent even gotten the other half of the deal yet.

It was a typo but I think you know what I meant.

I think the thing that many people are missing with taking picks over Wentz is whether a rookie QB would be in the position to succeed here.

WE have a cobbled together O-Line that has some talent on it but is struggling to gel. We have effectively an entirely green stock of offensive weapons that is still learning. How good would Wentz be with this support system (and that would also be a WR core WITHOUT Coleman). We saw what happens when you get a rookie QB with zero tools around him (ie. Couch, David Carr)

Compare that with grabbing a QB next year that comes into a system with young offensive talent with a year of experience under their belt and an offensive line that has played together for a year.

Given the question marks around Wentz (Div 2 QB, played against lesser competition), I think the FO made the smart play for the long term success of this team.

Let's play chess- not checkers.

Right. We needed a lot of players because of the poor drafting of previous regimes so we made the trade. It's way to early to tell how good Wentz will be or who else we will draft with the picks we got. Let's give it time.

I read the same things on here back when they passed on BEN for KW2

I don't like the idea of just planning on taking your FRANCHISE QB next year. That just screams to me you expect to be in position to draft 1 or 2 again.

To me you take him when he is there...You already earned that early pick. If you take Wentz this year and you are still the number 2 pick...then you trade down for more picks with your franchise QB in place and a year under his belt.

I think Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Ben Roethlisberger make average players look good....not the other way around.

Just my thoughts....more than one way to skin a cat.

HACK

Completely agree here. If we had drafted Wentz, we probably would of broken him before he even got out of the gate. We made the smart play. Build the team around the QB first, and then when the time is right, get a guy that we can mold for the position. Tossing a guy into the fire with a weak O-line and limited WR options will give a guy Tim Couch/David Carr disease every time.

But for the record, I'd just like to state that I had Wentz at the top of my own personal draft board.

Eh, I can agree with parts of that, but not all. The difference between us and the Steelers when they got Ben was that our cupboard was completely bare. Our receiver core consisted of a guy one puff away from a lifetime ban, a QB turned WR, and a cast of oompa-loompas.

The picks that we got for trading down was pretty impressive as well. 2 firsts, 2 seconds, 2 thirds ... that's almost Ricky Williams territory. Considering what a mess we were, that was probably the safer route.

But yeah, I felt Wentz would be a Franchise QB as well and I was disappointed when we traded down. Who knows if he would of done as well here as he's done in Philly though? We've already broken 2 QBs in 2 Weeks. Who's to say Wentz wouldn't of been a victim as well?

Really? Having gone thru RGIII and McCown Wentz would be a much better solution then Kessler right now. Did you even see the hits Wentz has endured in his two NFL wins? (2-0 vs our 0-2) The Eagles where projected to be pretty bad this year before Wentz was drafted. We missed on Wentz and now we'll loose on another early round pick if Wentz keeps up the pace for the Eagles. Not adding top tier talent and trading down hurts us year after year. The torture continues until we start taking the BPA on draft day and stop trading away our top picks. We could have added three olinemen in the 2015 draft and 2 QB's in the 2016 draft. But no we traded picks away for a bunch of later picks and get mediocre talent instead.

I agree...but when you look at Troy Aikman or Peyton Manning...those guys started early...on bad teams....but yes many a QB was ruined by starting to early.


My concern for Cleveland is I have been watching them trade down to build up the other parts before getting a franchise QB for years.....and all the players your traded down and picked up to build around are all gone before you got your QB. Alex Mack springs to mind....

How many players are still on the team that got drafted before 2015? Haden, Joe Thomas, Bitonio, Hughes, Kirksey are the only ones I can think of off the top of my head...There might be a few more.

HACK

We're damned if we do, dammed if we don't. We've taken picks without trading down, and they've busted at pretty much the same rate as the other guys. We've also taken guys deemed to be "Franchise QBs", only to watch them crash and burn because they had no talent around them and quickly lost confidence.

The difference with Aik and Manning is that they were consensus #1 picks. Those are the rare guys that you can pick and just sort of let them figure it out. I don't know that Wentz was in that category. Most scouting websites graded him out as a mid-first rounder, that got upgraded to a Top 5 pick because he was one of the top QBs in a weak class.

Guys like Brees, Brady, Ben and Rodgers were all put into situations where the team structure was already there. If they didn't get a year or more to learn first, they were put in a situation where they could basically game-manage and let the running-game/defense do their thing.



We've also drafted quite a few guys meant to be franchise QBs that have flamed out spectacularly. Granted, outside of Couch, they weren't top 10 picks either.

Like I said though, I personally would of drafted Wentz. I do get your point in getting a guy that "looks" the part of a franchise QB, and then figuring out the rest later. But I can also see the logic of getting a windfall of picks and trying to fill out a roster devoid of any talent.

The only QB we've ever taken with the our first pick is Couch. We've passed on using our first overall pick on QB's for 16 drafts. I'm not buying the damned if we do... damned if we don't theory, because we haven't done it but once.

The problem with that is you get second tier talent and it's a gamble for many of those picks that they even make the team. Until we take a QB with real potential and not reach for those that just have some potential the Brown's will always struggle.

Yeah, it's hard to be damned if you do when you don't.

But the only time we've had the #1 pick was the Couch draft. Other than Rothlisburger and potentially Wentz, when exactly have we blown the obvious franchise QB pick to trade down or pick someone else?

I guess Aaron Rodgers in 2005, but just about everyone passed on him, and he got three years to sit on the bench and learn behind Brett Favre. I don't know you can say it would of worked the same here.

We could of picked Brady Quinn higher instead of Joe Thomas. We could of had Tim Tebow, instead of Joe Haden. Jake Locker or Blaine Gabbert instead of a trade down for Phil Taylor. Ryan Tannehill instead of Trent Richardson (okay, I'll give you that one!). Johnny Manziel higher, instead of Gilbert.

In most cases, we just missed out on the better QBs, because they were picked before us. And the guys we did pass on weren't exactly of the Andrew Luck "sure thing" variety.

The 2 things I keep coming back to are that Wentz just played 2 teams that have some bad defenses, so we should wait on crowning him the latest Browns draft miss, and the whole hindsight thing.

Wentz was NOT a sure thing during draft time. People had huge differences of opinion. Piling on the Browns for not dropping a #2 pick on a D2 QB, with all of the holes in the roster they had, is a bit much.