DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 24 Dolphins 30 Post Game Thoughts

I'm thinking Kindred is not getting the love he deserves. He's everywhere and playing hard.

In a nutshell, this is it. We lost. Again. "Almost won" is how the participation-trophy crowd says "lost."

Some are saying we had multiple chances to win, and this is true. But when you have multiple chances to win that means in order to lose multiple things need to go wrong. And that's what we did. We did enough things wrong to lose. This is what bad teams do. This is our culture.

j/c

I wanted to give this some time before commenting, and didn't want my utter disgust with the FO cloud my commentary.

Penalties, particularly by Paztor, and missed kicks cost us the game. That is so sad and Brownsian it's almost comical. But it is in no way funny. I was initially angry with the hire, but it's his lack of experience this year, and the fact that he was thrown into a game without practice, that is to blame. I see that he set a rookie scoring record, and that his 85% is top of the charts. So, hopefully, he can get it together. Paztor is another issue. He was simply overmatched. Right tackle is likely our top need, right after QB.

TP was a beast, he did it all, but had a couple drops that I'll be he wishes he could have back. But man, the dude played all day long.

Saw some good runs, by both Crow & Duke, that was very encouraging.

Overall, I liked the play calling. Except for the kneel down. That was stupid. Sorry, but it was.

Kessler was slightly impressive. Not outstanding, but he didn't get killed, and he didn't cost us the game. He made some good plays, and he developed in front of our eyes as the day went on. It will be interesting to see how he grows. His deeper passes look weak, and I don't love his size, but he made some calls at the line, and showed some mobility that I liked. So we'll see where he takes us this year. He's got to get rid of the ball more quickly, and the line has to keep him clean.

Overall, except for the half-dozen Paztor blunders, I thought the O-line did okay.

We got some production from some of the other receivers, Hawk, Louis.

Barnidge showed up.

Defense:

I'm opening a Lemonier stand. Never heard of this guy, and had no idea he was on our team, but he showed up in a big way yesterday. Ditto Briean Boddy-Calhoun. Amazing what these two kids did in their first (believe) action as a Brown. A cut 6th rounder and a cut UDFA, picked up off waivers and contributing in such a big way. They would have helped us win that game, but for the kicker.

Overall, I thought the D looked pretty good. Shelton is a head scratcher. Wh

I do like that he's physical. IMO he's better than Whitner was last year (not saying a ton)

This is more of a "what I saw" post.. but I was pleasantly surprised. We still have some holes but it's becoming easier to determine where those holes are.

I give a ton of credit to Hue and the staff for coaching their butts off and putting us in a position for our Red Cross unit to win this game. With that comes some criticism... I think we got very creative but we went too far at times. We were having trouble getting the play in and getting to the LOS in time to run the play.. then we start calling these funky formations that split the QB out, etc and we got caught a few times. I have one more criticism but I will save it for the end.

I thought our running game looked pretty good.. with Pryor and straight up. I thought we did a pretty good job of neutralizing their great defensive front.. well, except for whoever lined up opposite Pasztor. I but the Dolphins were fighting over who got to do that on the sidelines.

Our run defense wasn't bad, based on the expectations I had of it coming out of preseason it has not been the glaring weakness I thought it would be.

We are still lacking that one guy who can just beat his man and get to the QB, we have some young guys, hoping when Nassib comes back that either he or Ogbah grow into that guy.

I thought Kessler looked totally lost early on. I know he was 5-5 at one point but he was throwing some ducks. He got hit a lot, part of that was on the OL (See every other comment about Pasztor) and some of it was him holding hte ball too long. I thought overall he remained composed and did a decent job.

Pryor.. wow, I think everybody else has covered it.

My biggest complaint.. recover the sack fumble with 20 seconds to go and a time out... and you kneel on it putting it all on the foot of your highly questionable kicker from 52 yards? I thought that was an incredibly stupid idea. You have a time out, you can use the whole field. Use Pryor in a run/pass option, use Kessler and run a quick slant. Do SOMETHING to try to get another 10 yards to relax your kicker. That is my one big "Hue, what were you thinking?" moment of the day.

How do you change a culture? There was nothing we could have done in the off-season to turn this team into a winner. Even if we drafted Carson Wentz, he still would have been playing with a team full of very young players.

The way you change a culture is to get talented players and develop them. They get good and then you start winning.

There was no overnight fix for this team.

Yes, but it makes you look like a genius if you predict what everybody already knows, that the team will struggle badly, and then it comes to pass.That allows one to point out to everyone that one is right.

If that's the case, we were all right and are all geniuses. Congratulations everyone!

(There obviously a few people who were overly optimistic.)

Pryors press conference was awesome. If you're into reading things like body language and stuff I suggest watching it.

13-3

"I believe I can do anything."

That's Pryor's attitude. I love it!

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/media-cen...f4-0c674e16d01d

j/c

It's hard to blame a losing culture for the loss when the biggest culprit had been with the team less than a week.

You can't consider it a winning culture when we are win-less, but I think the team "culture" isn't the problem right now. We seem more tight knit than I remember us ever being. The O and D seem to play for each other now. We're not seeing a bunch of the blame game yet. It's early, but the team's attitude so far is encouraging. Keep getting better, hopefully have some guys get healthy.

We had a Miami cast-off (Taylor) and 2 UDFA's (Howard and Boddy-Calhoun) at corner for a good chunk of the game and still almost won. Our "Pro Bowl" kicker missed 3 FG's. We played our 3rd string QB. 1st round draft picks from the last 2 drafts were out with injuries. Our "best" pass rusher was out with a broken hand.

If this was boxing, we basically threw our guy into the ring with both hands tied behind his back and he almost won.

Blame depth, lack of talent in some areas, and/or injuries. I don't think culture is a reason to fairly point at (yet).

Just chiming in with my thoughts, I was at the game yesterday.

That was a fun game to watch. I went in with no expectations to win and just had a blast. Was the defeat hard, you bet...but the journey was a lot of fun and that has not been the case for most of the recent Browns football. Looking at how decimated we have been with injuries I would say Hue and the staff are doing one hell of a job and hope we get to see this all the way through.

I thought the D looked pretty good overall.

IMO penalties killed us(yes, Parkey too). Since I was watching it live I can't comment to how biased the officiating was since obviously they aren't going to show on the screens penalties called against us, but man it felt like we were getting called for everything.

I know we seem to lose the long ball with Kessler but I thought the kid played pretty well. I mean he is a rookie and will have some rookie moments but he seemed pretty comfortable out there after that first drive. Personally I say let him play the rest of the year even when McCown gets healthy again.

Running game was working. Miami has got a pretty good front so to see the run game working as well as it was, was nice to see.

Tyrelle Pryor...what can you say that can't be said already, love that guy. Played his absolute heart out.

Ran into a lot of Miami fans obviously, and a lot of them admitted they lucked into that win. If we have a kicker that game is over. No expectations this year so its just nice to see this team playing with some heart, seems that hasn't been seen out of this team for quite some time. I think Hue has this team ticking.

I don't know what to call it if you don't call it the "culture".. our coach in his 3rd game with us, our 3rd round QB in his first start, etc.. all of these things happen to other teams but they happen to us ALL THE TIME.

As far as the biggest culprit being the FG kicker.. we were inside their 25 yard line 5 times.. inside their 35 yard line 3 other times.. we scored ONE touchdown and tried SIX field goals... Multiple times we were down near the 20 yard line and ended up kicking almost 50 yard FGs because of penalties and losses... Good teams, if they know they have a weakness or an unknown like a kicker signed yesterday, try to NOT make him win the game for you but that's exactly what we did.


I agree, which is why I desperately want this team to get a couple wins soon so they can start to see it paying off... otherwise it could slip away.


I don't blame anybody or anything in particular.. it's just frustrating when you have a "bad" team and you get one you coulda/shoulda won and you let it slip away.. those opportunities may be few and far between and I want to see these guys get one because they seem to be working their butts off.

The redskins are getting banged up with injuries, so maybe we will see a competitive game again, and even a win!!!

I don't think it's culture. And Hue, specifically, has been addressing the noise that's been coming in about the Browns looking better than we all thought. I have total faith in Hue keeping these guys grounded in reality.

In fact, Hue is why I still have faith. With other coaches, I've never got that feeling that the HC had all the players on his side. Sometimes teams would flat out give up on their HC.

I can tell you, having watched that game and the other two, that's not going to happen to Hue. He has the ear of the team. I think they know that he is putting the team in a position to win every time they are on the field. Despite the other times smoke has been blown up our butt, I very much believe Hue and the team when they say they know how much work has to be done.

Also, 52 guys on that roster never gave up and came back to win that game yesterday. But if there was ever a case of "it takes every one on the roster to win", yesterday was the premier example. The only reason the Browns lost yesterday was because of subpar kicking. If they had average kicking, that's a 6 point win, at minimum.

Hey...............a post that doesn't mention one football topic but manages to trash other posters that you don't agree with. How refreshing.

I started laughing when Parkey missed the game winner at the end. Not because I thought it was funny, or because I wanted them to lose, merely because it was Cleveland. They pulled a Cleveland. They snatched a loss from the jaws of victory against a very, very bad Miami team. Cleveland and their roster of 17 rookies almost went into Miami and beat them.


I thought Kessler looked solid considering the offensive line did him no favors.

Austin Pastzure (spelling?) is god awful. Could Coleman or Drango really be any worse? If accountability means anything for this coaching staff, he should be out!

I was only able to listen to the game on the radio, but it sounds like Pryor might turn into a legit #1 WR. Saw highlights today and and man was he tearing it up!

Oh.........and as far as culture goes.......I think people are misunderstanding my meaning, whether it be intentionally or unintentionally.

Of course, the team wasn't going to turn things around in just one year. That type of comment is more about bashing opposing opinions than based on any type of logic.

When I speak of culture.........I am talking about knowing that you are a team that does not have guys who have won before. Look at the Brown's roster and count up the number of playoff games played and/or won by the guys on this team. It's not many.

T. Williams won in Green Bay. RGIII made one playoff appearance in Washington. Who else?

The team is comprised of young players. Everyone keeps saying that losing is expected. Right or wrong? Am I wrong in saying that posters don't say "we all knew we were going to lose this year?"

So, our holdover players haven't experienced winning. Our new players won't experience winning. Instead, these guys find new ways to lose each and every week, just like we did the last three games.

A bad snap. A bad call. A missed FG. On and on.

Losses accumulate. They become the culture.

And this is why I think it is dangerous to blow a team up w/out having a mix of players on your team and instead rely on almost all inexperienced guys.

This is not baseball. Football is a team game where each player is relied on--and relies on--those around him.

Y'all can make fun of guys like me and Cap. You can sneer and act like we have no idea what we are talking about. You can pretend we aren't being logical, but that won't change how I feel about this.

A football team needs to experience a modicum of success in order to "buy into" what the coaches and organization are building. Making sacrifices, putting the extra time in, working hard, believing in the system and schemes start to waver when faced w/constant losing.

I hope so, I'll be there. If we win, obviously it will be because I was there so I will begin crowd funding to pay for me to go to all of the games.. 13-3 baby.

Analytics has Danny Shelton as the best run stuffing DT in the NFL.



It's not too absurd when you factor in that teams really haven't ran over us.

That's encouraging and he has always had the motor and hustle to do that.

That said, even if he develops into a good run stopping NT it wasn't worth a top 10 selection. He's useless against the pass and barely plays over 50% of the D snaps and you don't draft part time/rotational/one dimensional players with your top pick.

I comped him to John Hughes right after we drafted him and so far overall in his career Shelton hasn't made more of an impact than Hughes, who btw was a PFF sleeper a couple of years ago

I remember when Hughes had the highest grade among our defensive linemen. I thought he was okay, but not nearly as good as Bryant and even as good as a couple of others.

I think the PFF grades are pretty good, but sometimes they have some grades that make me scratch my head. Haden's grade a couple of weeks ago is evidence of that.

I think Shelton is playing much better this year and our run defense is better than it has been in quite awhile. I gotta give him some props.

very encouraging

I agree with you and said the same thing before the draft. Shelton was picked 12th.

Tough loss, tough tough loss.

Cliché as it may be the the offense/defense played well enough to win tough luck w/ Murphy.

Overall thoughts defense:

WYSIWYG from the draft/trainingcamp/preseason is carrying over

o I'm really enjoying watching players that graded out well to the layman like myself produce on the field.
To me its a sign that coaches are putting players in positions to play their best.

Kirksey is playing very well, PFF grades him as top 15 ILB
Poyer and IC are playing well and grading out as starting caliber S which is better then many thought
Kindred is playing well despite his grade, love his aggression out there imho his style of play is contagious and get teammates pumped when he's throwing his body around
Shelton-already been noted that he's playing his best ball and is one of best run stopping interior players
Nassib was making an impact as a rusher
Ogbah is grading well too (actually better then Nassib)
Haden after an understandably shaky first game Joe was playing very good ball and graded out by PFF as a top 6 CB

There is some talent to build around along with some players that need to improve or be replaced

It was nice to see Jamar Taylor get a pick, and Body Calhoun.

It was nice to see Horton play some more 2 deep safety looks and I think/hope he does more of it because imo that's the best way to help the secondary who oh btw are
15th in QB rating allowed at: 88.1 which is actually 1 above the Rams

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?s...qualified=false

-Kindred to me is a guy who plays bigger than he is. He's been fearless taking on the bigger TE's, and he seems to have the talent to deliver a big hit, but not at the expense of making the tackle. To me his tackling has been one of his strongest suits which is why I was so ticked he whiffed on the TD.

-Kirksey really is coming in to his own. I think most people were underwhelmed by the Demario Davis pickup, but I think they make a pretty solid pairing.

-I'd like to see a little more impact out of Ogbah. He's made some very intelligent plays like the one someone already mentioned where he backed off the rush, sat in the lane, and batted the ball down. I'd like to see him get to the QB more (but then I guess that's kind of a given eh? lol)

Overall I feel like Horton has our defense playing some intelligent football. There's still some talent/ability/experience gaps, but this team doesn't look lost. I'm really pleased with just how together of a unit they are playing as for such a young team.

Offensively... I was concerned with how much TP was under center and Kessler wasn't at first. I thought it would be difficult for Kessler to get his feet. Turns out I think Kessler played just the right amount, and in the right situations. Dude looks like he's wearing cement boots when he runs though lol.

Our guys will get the W soon enough.

Oh, I also wanted to say that Malcolm Johnson isn't the same FB he was last year... mostly because last year you couldn't call his play proper FBing. For a guy this preseason that I felt it better to have no FB than him... he seems to be proving me wrong. So far this season it looks like he's finding his blocks and sticking them.

It's nice to eat crow on this one.

And you follow it up with another one. How typical.

Overall I was encouraged.

seems like we have some good young talent.

I think the the culture is changing.

I like what Hue is doing

One additional note about Pryor. Did we see some routes other than going deep? I'm pretty sure we did.
When the guy isn't doing good things, he's doing great things. Can't describe how positive his tend is pointing right now. His attitude is also something good.

QFT

I can't believe the levels of maturity, craftsmanship and dedication I'm seeing from TP. He's grown up a lot from his days at OSU.

Come back routes, a lot of those. He's fearless on the middle slant route too, which was something I really NEEDED to see from him. A lot can go on when you're crossing the middle. People want to kill you.

I've heard, and note I'm not a WR coach nor was the person telling me, but I heard his route running is pretty good. Al Saunders may have been the icing to the cake there.

It's pretty awesome. Dude has always been a freakish athlete but he's putting in the work to make himself a better football player every day...

It's an established understanding that putting your offense in 3rd and long is not as good as 3rd and manageable.


yet. Few seem to think that putting a kicker in a game winning opportunity should involve trying to get them in position for a " chip shot" field goal, something I figure starts at about 39, or 38 yards or shorter.

The team was running almost 5yds per carry, and had hit 12 or 17 passes at one point if I recall correctly.

( At one game late in the year the Ravens had the ball with about 40 seconds to go , ON THEIR OWN SIDE OF THE FIELD, , the last game, and they had just gotten into a tie game, and they took a knee,(or ran into the line) to play for the overtime.)

NOW, THAT IS TO SAY That the Cleveland Browns are NOT the only team to take a knee and go for overtime without the lead.

Yet the Ravens fired their offensive coordinator that week, the week between the 2nd or last game of the regular season, and their playoff game.


What the Cleveland Browns did, is with 40 seconds, and having recovered a turnover on the opponents 29, and a chance to win, ... took a knee and used the 40 seconds up and put all of their eggs into the one basket of a kick on the edge of field goal territory. a 46 yarder.

... There is the thought that any snap could have put them "out" of fg range.
But the 46 yarder wasn't actually a " chip shot" either.

Oh well. Next Week!

He ran a couple of slants and some crossing routes. The dude is impressing me. He's come a long way in a year.

no doubt. what a progression he's made in one year ... such a talent

Makes we believe he was severely stunted by the previous regime. How good would he be now if he's had some coaching and more opportunities to see the field?

or, maybe he was bolstered by the previous regime and the reason he looks like he does is in large part due to the work he did last season, and wouldn't be where he is without that?


He is where he is - and for better or worse, last year is part of what got him to who, what, and where he is now.