DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Carson Wentz: After the Fact

Alright, but..........GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

What a huge disappointment...

I know that he hasn't played at SD. My point was that Dj said Bosa got dominated an entire game by Notre Dame's tackles, when in fact Bosa was kicked out early in the game. Which equates to him making things up.

I bet Bosa's year will be a waste

jc...

According to the Browns Harvard Brain Trust, Chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta said that the Browns were motivated to trade the pick and stick with Robert Griffin III because they didn’t envision Wentz developing into a top 20 NFL quarterback at any point.
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The Harvard Boys have no business running a nfl front office..it looks as though Browns fans will be reminded of that often, based on Wentz's performances.

The Browns need to add someone to the front office..(maybe someone like Peyton Manning)..to help these boys judge football talent.





Carson Wentz named NFC offensive player of the week

Posted by Josh Alper on September 28, 2016, 9:02 AM EDT
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The Eagles haven’t been shy about comparing Carson Wentz to some of the best quarterbacks in the history of the NFL after a short time in the league, which may be hyperbolic but Wentz has certainly been playing well.

He led the team to an emphatic 34-3 victory over the Steelers in Week Three to move the Eagles to 3-0 as they head into their bye week. Wentz was 23-of-31 for 301 yards and two touchdowns in the win and ran his streak of throws without an interception to start a career to 102 before the day was over.

That was enough to make him the choice for NFC offensive player of the week honors for the third week of the regular season. He’s also made a strong case to be the offensive rookie of the month for September, although Cowboys quarterback Dak Prescott is also likely to get some support for that prize.

Whether Wentz wins that or not, the Eagles are thrilled with their choice and Wentz looks like he’ll be running the offense in Philadelphia long enough to have plenty of other chances to win awards.

I think the Harvard boys are doing a great job and in time the fans will be rewarded.

"We would never get Wentz for that package now" is the lesson that needs to be learned once and for all. There isn't a package that is worth a franchise guy.

When you can get "The Guy" you do whatever it takes.

As much as it hurts to say it, that includes tanking.

My thinking is that what we got for Wentz is the additional stuff beyond Corey Coleman. He is a given, he ended up being the first round pick we were entitled to. We finagled and moved our way down, but we didn't get the pick from the Eagles.

After the trade, I believe that most people just applied the (Redskins gave up the farm for RG III and it was a bad move, so that means the Eagles just made a bad move, type of thinking). Now its starting to look like Wentz might be a franchise guy and if so, he's easily worth what they gave up.

Over the years I've argued with many of you about the primary importance of great coaching. If the Colts had a great coach, a great coach, they would be in the AFC Championship game in a year. You guys who profess that the disparity of actual talent in the NFL isn't as wide as many believe, I think you are right (Look at what Hue has done over the past three weeks). Coaching vs Talent. I disagree with many on the board. But, there are other boards, fans from other parts of the country, who agree with me (and guys like Clem). Great coaching creates real, functional, productive talent.

I would like to know exactly why Hue (yes and Pep) decided against Wentz. Specifics, The Truth. That would be interesting.

Yup...with their departure if they screw up another draft day.

I just looked at it again...I think the link is correct. Th extra players listed were a result of trading the acquired picks from Philly.

"Correct" in the sense that those players are ultimately what we received for trading the #2 overall to the Eagles.

mac, it's way too early to make that claim. You can say that it looks like they made a mistake by passing on Wentz, but your above statement is unfair.

We should have drafted McNabb.

That was statement is as relevant as any statement similar for Wentz. It's over. He's not on the team. We'll never know. Complaining about it now is an act of futility and self flagillation.

Next topic.

Certainly. I'm down with freedom of speech

Well Carson Wentz and Eagles are getting the very last laugh it seems.

thus far yes

The complete and utter failure here is the inability to recognize "The Guy" when he's sitting across the desk from you, staring you in the face. How can you do whatever it takes to get "The Guy" when you have absolutely no idea what he looks like? After this complete botchery, imagine the scramble now to get "A Guy" with the hope he becomes "The Guy". As we all know, hope is not a strategy. If They can't recognize "The Guy" when they see him, how in the hell are they not going to blow the next top QB pick? We can only sit here hoping they have the luck of the proverbial blind squirrel.

[quote=mac][color:#FFFFCC]jc...

According to the Browns Harvard Brain Trust, Chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta said that the Browns were motivated to trade the pick and stick with Robert Griffin III because they didn’t envision Wentz developing into a top 20 NFL quarterback at any point.
/[quote]

I honestly have troubles believing that. I mean the part of stiking with RGIII, if they are number guys, numbers don't lie, so what was the probability of RGII lasting one season?

On the flip side, even if Hue was wrong on RGIII and CK, he looks to have it right on Prior

Wrong again. I watched game cut ups and it shows all the plays from a particular player. No, I didn't know he was kicked out, but it was irrelevant since I saw all of HIS plays in the game. I even responded to this back in that thread saying he was probably kicked out because he got dominated. What's your point? If you want to go all semantics on me because I wrongly equated "all his plays" with "the entire game", great, but I didn't care about the game (why would I? Bosa was the player to watch there), just HIS entire game. I watched the entire cut up and two others against quality opponents and determined, for me, that he's not a first round talent. My opinion, I have been wrong before, we will see.

Back to the great Wentz

Sure, but it's NOT what we got ONLY from the Eagles. That was my point. The Eagles really didn't pay much in terms of 2016 picks, which was smart since they picked high, and they spread the two high picks going to us over the next two drafts, which is even smarter. They will still be able to have solid drafts the next two years and they found their franchise QB. I think they don't care much what we did with their picks later. Right now it's Wentz vs 2xColeman. Huge win for them so far which puts a ton of pressure on the two future picks.

I can't believe that so many are trying to rationalize missing out on a great QB with such silly logic. Everyone would have known better before the draft.

J/c

I thought this was the haul:

The Browns got: The 2016 No. 8 overall pick, the 2016 3rd round pick (No. 77 overall), the 2016 4th round pick (No. 100 overall), the 2017 first-round pick and 2018 second-round pick.

Yes, but the Eagles also got the Browns 4th in 2017 back, that's why I left out R.Louis, acting as if he was our 4th in 2017, so if you add him, you have to add next year's 4th to Wentz on the Eagles side.

Where the heck you been? Haven't seen much of you lately.

Okay, I get it but I look at the trade net-net.

Philosophically I err on the side of more picks is better then fewer picks, especially for a team in the Browns situation.

At the time it made sense and it still makes sense regardless of how Wentz is playing.

Also i think Wentz play is bolstered by the outstanding coaching at the QB position and having good talent around him and a good defense. (I still don't know why Lane Johnson is currently playing...thought he was suspended for PEDs)

Can u imagine this team without the influx of talent from the draft?

In the post game/game summary threads. I try to keep it football.

Well, Wentz is no RG3, but I digress.

shrugs...okay

*LOL* .... Yes u do ... Right down to the COLD HARD TRUTH!!!!

Ok...but we turned what we got ONLY from the Eagles into much, much more than just the three picks from them...right?

Wentz is now a FQB? Really?

I underlined a comment above that made me laugh. Not picking a fight...I just thought it was funny.

Huge win for them? I don't agree...yet...but you may end up being right. We will see.

A great QB? Ok...could be.

Maybe...we have an extra 1st and 2nd round pick next year PLUS a 3rd in 2018. Who knows how those picks will develop? We may trade those picks and make the analysis even more interesting.

Is it possible that BOTH teams got/get what they needed from the trade?

I'd STILL make that trade today. (Disclaimer: I have ZERO say in what the Browns do...at anything.)

I don't pretend to know how to scout players and I don't delude myself that I would be a good GM. But I really wanted Derek Carr, and then I really wanted Wentz. I really think I, and a lot of the people on this board, could do better than the Browns in the first round. Maybe not the rest of the draft, but the first round. Lord knows we could not have done worse over recent years.

The topic is still relevant because the harvard boys whiffed on getting a franchise QB. It's a legit concern that they will screw this up again in the next draft.

But this is completely based on the assumption that had we drafted Wentz, he'd be doing the exact same things he's been doing in Philly. Now saying he'd be doing worse had he come here is an assumption as well, but considering I don't think anyone would argue our roster was as good as the Eagles, I think it's a more reasonable assumption.

If we took Wentz and sat him behind RG3 like the Eagles originally planned, Dawgs would be criticizing the "Harvard Boys" for one of 2 things (or both):

1) Moaning about how they whiffed and used a valuable pick on a guy who couldn't beat out RG3.

and/or

2) Moaning about how they just drafted a guy who wasn't ready to play in the NFL now

But such is the way of the world I guess.

I would make an awesome GM. No doubt about it.

So, we should never draft a good qb because our team sucks? People continue to trot out that logic [sic.]

Philly's offense isn't all that. One could argue that the Browns have as much talent on offense as the Eagles do.

And here is the thing that people keep forgetting. It's not about Wentz's numbers, it's about his poise, his changing of protections at the LOS, him calling audibles, his accuracy, his pocket presence and how he keeps his eyes downfield. Those things have nothing to do w/his surrounding talent.

I truly believe that people are only bringing up the "he wouldn't be as good in Cleveland" argument because they are protecting the FO at all costs, rather than evaluating each move based on its own merits.

I don't think people are trying to defend the FO at all costs. I think people don't want to believe

Well, we can disagree on that one. Just like we know mac and a couple of others are going to bash the FO at all costs, there are quite a few posters who defend the FO each time they talk about them.

They probably don't stand out as much because it only makes sense that most posters love the Browns and aren't very objective about the team. Thus, guys can make ridiculous arguments like Devil did and most people just accept it.

I think "people" like the draft pick haul...like many of the players chosen...like the potential of the 3 picks yet to be made...and want to see more than three games before anointing someone as a FQB. Many of those same "people" don't give one second of thought as to who is in the FO.

On a side note, it sure appears that the Chip-ster did NOT leave the cupboard bare. They have a lot of really good players on that team.

I meant that there are posters who come across as being one-sided and not many who are all that objective and try to look at both the good and the bad.