DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Carson Wentz: After the Fact

For my part, no. That would have been a smart, well thought out move showing savvy and intention. And, he'd have started week three anyway, assuming he hadn't beaten RGIII out during TC. Which would've been likely. Even so, forcing him to sit and learn, at least the first two games would've shown wisdom. Something seriously lacking of late.

Seriously, everyone else is going to let this slide? I waited hours to see if anyone else would say anything.

We should draft the next Jamarcus Russell? How does that make any sense?

People let this crap slide:



Really????????????

Discuss, of course! But we are still three games into the new regime, new coaches, 17 rookies the draft, Wenz, etc. BTW I agree with you and pdx on some points.

Once again............I support the Fo and especially Hue, but that doesn't mean I have to be a robot. I try and judge each move based on it's own merits. That upsets some people like Devil.

Are you saying you didn't see risk in Wentz at 2? That's not how I remember things.

If you take a QB that high you are hooking your wagon to him. Other positions you can get away with busts a bit (especially lower in the draft), but if you take a QB that high and he fails, you are pretty much done as a GM. Everyone in the building better be on the same page, and we didn't seem to be.

You're going to compare that to someone thinking Jamarcus Russell would be a good player to spend a pick on?

Wentz didn't pass all of Parcell's QB rules. Parcell's Rules Article

I kind of wonder if that factored in. Depodesta had met with Parcells. Link

If it did, I feel like they could adjust their parameters in the future.

This is why I think you suck as a poster. I began this thread by admitting I was wrong about Wentz. I have stated that I was wrong in my evaluation about him SEVERAL times on this thread.

Once again, you try and twist my words around to win a stupid argument. You are not interested in the truth, but only in winning the argument.

Let me make it real clear. I was wrong about Wentz.

However, I did not have the resources and time to study him like the Browns did. Nor am I being paid millions of dollars to evaluate the qb.

You can make this about me. That is what guys like you do. However, the Browns ended up w/out Wentz and w/Kessler. That won't change despite your one-sided, lopsided logic.

I still think there's a chance Kessler can be good. I know I'm in the minority this, but I think there's a chance with the kid. I'm hoping for some growth tomorrow.

I don't agree, but obviously, I have been wrong before. LOL

We'll see tomorrow. Washington also has a week of film on him, so I expect them to really jam the box and jump routes. He'll have to play better

I'm not trying to call you out. We both thought there was risk with him. Avoiding that risk could be considered playing it safe in my book.

I'm trying to figure out what you found so outlandish about my earlier post that comparing it to J Russell being a pick we'd have to make seemed like the thing to do.

I'm not following you. I never even mentioned J. Russell.

ummm...just read it...not really sure of the point. but I don't think they have proven anything yet.

dude take a chill pill

Oh, I didn't realize you had called Russell a bust prior to the draft. You would have obviously passed on him knowing he would flame out even though he had all the measurables. Why didn't you say that In the first place? Then I wouldn't have needed to make my silly point about drafting a QB with his skill set. Give the FO a call, they can definitely use someone who can see into the future.

Vers - your WORDS in the post 5 or 6 before the one I qouted below .. Not exact bu the words WE BLEW IT were in there .. It went SUMPTIN like this ... Actually here it is EXACTLY as u wrote it ....

Quote:
U guys make this way to complicated ...


How am I making things complicated, boss?

I'm saying the Browns blew it. Sounds pretty freaking simple to me.

DO U SEE THE PART WHERE IT SAYS THE BROWNS BLEW IT ...

I responded and said its WAY TO EARLY to say we BLEW ANYTHING ..

Then u come up with this ... I'm not part of the posse .. I won't engage with them pretty much at all cause they LIVE IN the land of MADE UP CRAP just like you did here ...



So now u want me top go read the entire post .. Pretty sure u made it perfectly clear with the ...

THE BROWNS BLEW IT COMMENT ...

I'm done here .. WASTE OF TIME when I need to look at the words u say and am suppose to know they DON'T MEAN WHAT U SAID ..

Stick too the low hanging fruit with that BS ... U wanna talk about Wentz or football .. THATS THE ONLY REASON I'M HERE ...

Have fun with your posse Vers .. There lots of fun to talk with ...

See ya.

I spent the majority of the lead up to the 2007 Draft on an aircraft carrier in the Western Pacific, so was too busy to dig into prospects like I do now. However, when I do look at players I try to turn over every stone and look beyond the measurables. I'm pretty sure I would have found articles like this one and had doubts about him. link

While I kind of get where you are coming from, you've got to look beyond the measurables. Some of my vehemence against the "measurables" QB prospect may be related to the lasting image I have of Jamarcus Russell after he let himself go.

I actually liked Wentz's intangibles. If I could go back, I'd take him. He seems well on his way to putting the few questions I had about him to rest. WR's are much easier to find than franchise QBs.

In my own head I'm trying to figure out why they didn't take him. I've posted theories/guesses. I could set them off with maybes, I thinks, perhaps, etc. but when I'm not posting links I figure people understand I'm presenting an opinion.

I feel better about Kessler right now than I did at any point before last Sunday. He was, at least, serviceable this past Sunday, and actually did some nice things. If he can be just an average NFL QB, he would be better than almost any QB we have had since 1999.

Kessler sucked last week and was protected by Hue's creative game plan. Kessler is a pipe dream, much like the other guy you loved..........Braden Weeden.

ok well first off. Thank you for your service, and any other board member that is or was part of the armed forces. and all the armed forces.

that said, I think that Cody played really well against the Dolphins. lots of good reads and throws, a couple of bad ones. But dang, yup I like the way he played kept us in the game up to the very end.
Is Wentz the better QB? idk yet, so far looking like it but Cody is just getting started with barely any work with the ones. I like him more and more. we see what happens this sunday

Even Brian "the Destroyer" Hoyer?? lol

I think Cody played pretty solid too. I also believe that half of TP's role was to help reduce COdy's exposure to the Dolphins DEF. This turned out to be an excellent plan by Hue because not only did we get tremendous production from TP, but it was neat to see Cody progress as the game went on. He gradually looked more confident and while I'd like to see him step up in the pocket a bit more at times, he started to keep his feet set and shuffle around a bit more. His foot work still looked a little timid at times and I swear when he ran it looked like he was wearing cement Uggs, but by the end of the game he was far better than the Kessler we saw on the first drive.

A lot of people pimped Hoyer really hard at the end of 2013, but I just didn't see it.

We went into 2014, and he started the year with 7 TD passes against only 1 INT through 5 games .... and I admitted i was wrong about him ...... so he promptly fell apart, throwing 5 TD passes and 12 INT the rest of the season.

and has been AWFUL ever since

thank goodness we never "paid" him like some wanted us to after that thursday night game at Cincy

I would like to remind some folks around here just how much they witched and cried during RG III's rookie season because the Browns screwed themself's and didn't trade up to get RG III the sure fire future first ballot Hall Of Famer.

The moral of the story. Quit jumping the gun, give the trade several years to see if it was a good or a bad move by either team.

Speaking of jumping the gun.... all those who bashed Flip last year season sure don't want to give him any credit now do they

Why do so many of you discourage talking about football and instead would rather talk about posters?

Good God! We are not supposed to talk about football moves on a football message board.

It may turn out to be a good trade for both sides. Wentz may become a very good qb and we may end up with some very good players plus a good starting qb. Time will tell.

Wentz looks good. He was the guy I hoped we would take. I think Depo stuck his foot in his mouth when he said we didn't feel he was a top 20 QB. Not sure if that meant a top 20 NFL qb, or a top 20 pick, but either way he probably wished he hadn't made that comment. At any rate, we will need to see how it all pans out at some point down the road. I don't think Kessler was the QB pick the Browns made to be the future of the team. If so, we are going to need to see a lot of development out of him, and I agree with you, the odds are long.

He had a decent first game, but it was a lot of dink and dunk passes. I read when maybe 20 of his 33 passes were less than 10 yards in the air. If we can't stretch that out, teams are going to be able to adjust to that. We'll see what the Skins do a few hours from now. I think we need to stretch it out a bit if we want to have success.

I am not as big on arm strength as some people, but that means Kessler has to be superior in the mental game...pre-snap and post snap reads have to be spot on. I don't expect that to be perfect this early, but he does need to flash that ability as we move forward. If he can't do that, he is back-up material, period.....which is ok if that is how we plan to use him and don't see him as our QB of the future.

I posted this earlier, but I would like to see Kessler pretty much the rest of the way unless he falls apart. Maybe we caught a geni in a bottle, but the only way to know for sure is to give him this season. I sure as heck don't want to have question marks about him and the QB position headed in to the next draft. I want us to have clear vision on if we need to draft a QB early or not. I don't want it to be that he looked pretty good in limited opportunities. I want it to be he looked good and got better as the season rolled on, or he isn't the guy.

If not, then we have to pick the right guy. I know you have questions about our ability to evaluate QB talent. I do too, even if to a lesser degree because my feeling is no matter how you, I, we, they think they are at evaluations of a QB, there is a heck of a lot of luck involved when drafting that position. It isn't just the Browns. Many teams have taken QBs at the top of the draft only to have a trainwreck QB at the position a few years later.

I will say that after the Couch debacle, I do think we are doing it right by adding some weapons to the armory. As much as I ragged Couch, and he deserved it, the team didn't help him out much with guys like Terry Kirby and Darren Chavarini. We have a couple of pretty good looking backs, Coleman has looked good, even though I worry he might be frail, and thankfully Pryor has improved to the point he looks to be at least adequate replacement for the goofball named Gordon.

not drafting Wentz just sat the franchise back in the context of even reaching .500.
He's gotten Philly off to a 3-0 start and probally at the very least a wild card appearance
meanwhile the new regime with all its oh so intelligent moves has manufactured a 0-3 start.
anybody seen this movie before?
can this franchise ever make a intelligent football decision. ?
from hiring Holmgren, passing on Carr, Beckham, employing stupid coordinators like Carthon, Daboll, hiring idoit's like Mangini
passing on Wentz the stupid inept decisions continue to keep this team
in the cellar and out of the playoff picture by week 4!!
yep passing on Wentz just set the franchise back yet again

Who's flip?

Funny u should bring up RG3 .. One of my best friends is a skins fan and before the season we were talking about who had the better QB .. RG3 or Johnny ...

At the end of the season he said they had the best QB and it wasn't even close .. My response to him was ...

THIS YEAR you had the far superior QB ... Lets talk in a few years before we go making RUSH TO JUDGEMENTS ,,,

Turns out they got one GREAT year out of him and then NOTHING ...

U need 3 years to evaluate these guys ... Well unless it doesn't fit your agenda ...

Talking football is fine. I remember when we use to actually do that around here. Jumping on somebody's jock strap after a few games or a season is not talking football IMO nor is bashing somebody and calling them busts after a few games or one season. He's great, no he sucks, nope he is great, no he sucks is NOT football talk. I miss the days when I could actually learn something from a lot of posters on the board.

Flip was out last offensive Coordinator. He is now the Eagles QB Coach and he is the one who has spent the most time with Wentz working on his game.



I bitch around here all the time that it takes three years to judge a player, or draft, or even a coach, but in todays I want it now society to many folks act like this is a video game not the NFL when they talk about football.

Watching the Jags/Colts game, I can't help but think that Andrew Luck's game today so far (part way through the 2nd qtr) is what Wentz would look like on the Browns. Getting beat up and having receivers drop lots of passes. Luck's still a good player, but he doesn't get to show it all the time.

A front office has to draft good players everywhere, not just QB. A good QB is definitely important, but missing anywhere hurts.

We may have missed on Wentz, but avoiding busts would be a decent consolation. How it shakes out does somewhat remain to be seen.

I agree with you GM. It does take a good 3 years to judge new players and or coaches. You have to learn new systems, grow with and jell with new teammates etc. It's rare a guy comes in and starts playing like an all pro. I'm as tired of the losing as anyone but I've seen some positive things so far and am willing to give Hue and the team ample time. Now if we could just get our injured guys back

Ahhhh .. This decades version of Bruce Arians ...

Me too. It's become the whining and bickering board with personalities, not football, at the forefront.

And that is exactly what you two are doing. If you don't like the topic, stay out of thread and shut your mouths.

Pretty freaking simple.