DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Racism in America. A basic supposition.

From my perspective I see no difference in the two kids growing up. HOWEVER I have learned that where the kids grew up, small town, inner city, east coast, west coast, down south, up north, could make a difference so in my portion of the world the answer is that these kids are exactly the same, however in other parts of the USA they could grow up completely different

Read this thread and you'll see it up close and personal.

quote by GM:

"...however in other parts of the USA they could grow up completely different."

I believe you mean the black child could be subjected to racism.

I suppose yes.

There are some small rural pockets of podunk areas where a few families/people could effectively carry out racist behaviors. Possibly harmful.

But these "pockets" are generally not safe for most outsiders.

LOL being in a small town I can tell you both kids would be treated the same. It's the big inner cities where the problems would come from.

20 years ago if a white woman on an airplane had flashed a hospital badge most people would have assumed she was a nurse, not a doctor.... We don't just make assumptions based on race. We make assumptions based on history and our own life experiences. The only way to overcome these implicit biases is through exposure to different things.

I think this lies at the heart of my ongoing talks about Muslim Americans in my area. I've tried repeatedly to give a first-hand account of my experiences, in an effort to bring some'insider's insight' to the subject.

BUT- if another Dawg who has never experienced what I have reads my words... they're just words. And it will never be enough to cut through their implicit bias. In other words... they'd have to experience it for themselves, in which case, I'd then be 'preaching to the choir.' The two of us would have just as much (or as little) success in subsequent conversations.

It's why I've all but totally bowed out of these threads. It's too taxing to explain how my personal experiences have shaped my world view to folks who haven't lived it.

Exhausting.

.02

I guess if you assume another poster has had no experiences with Muslim Americans but has come away with a different view than your own, what you say is true. They must be biased.

What I'm saying is that it's an uphill climb to explain/describe one's interactions with a little to no common ground between oneself and the person he's talking to.

I've read posts on here that claim the Islam is not a religion of peace,' yet I've had nothing but peaceful interactions with these folks for half my life.

I'd be hard-pressed (and wouldn't presume) to slap a blanket label of 'bias' on everyone, but it would have to be at least considered, if after hearing me, the other person simply repeated what he'd originally said.

I agree with DC's assertion that I quoted... because it accurately describes my own personal situation. For the first 2-3 years I lived here, I was extremely uncomfortable around Muslim Americans, because I'd never met any. It's not a problem for me any more, because "real life" has proven to me that my original misgivings were unfounded.

My life's better because of the new things I've experienced. I'd like to think that I'm a better person, as well.

Yup. Clemmy=implicit bias. Freely admitted. I was a bigot.

Judging a person based on their own individual merits and actions rather than lumping them all into one neat little group us righteous people can label?

Heresy!!!

So you assume the person who's experiences with Islam should leave them feeling the same as you or they are wrongly biased?

Tell it to the families of those murdered in San Bernardino, California by Islamic Terrorists. Their experience with Islam has nothing peaceful about it. "Real Life" to them has given them a completely different view than your own "Real Life" experience.

I may be way off base here 40, but I think what Clem is trying to say and your not getting is that those people in San Bernardino were killed by bad people. Not just by Muslim's. As we all know there are bad Muslims, Christians, Athiests, Blacks, Whites, Jews etc, etc, etc. There are bad people and good people of every religion, and color, and we need to judge every person on their own merits, not on our own preconceived notions.

But San Bernardino wasn't just bad people, it was bad people doing their heinous act in the name of their religion. There was the guy who was asking people to quote the quran and then murdering those who couldn't was doing it in the name of that religion. Or all the others yelling allahu akbar then murdering people. When there is a trend you can't blame people for being weary of the obvious connection.

When the KKK was hanging black people did that mean ALL white people were bad?

When Witches were burned at the stake by Christians did that make all Christians bad?

Since blacks commit crimes at a higher rate than whites does that make all blacks bad?

Since I am old, short, fat and ugly does that make all old, short, ugly people fat

And people were weary of the KKK.

The witches were real dude, I don't know what you're talking about.

Let's keep it to religion and keep race out of it. It's not the same thing.

Are you going around shouting how great short, fat, ugly people are then killing folks?

You could say yes to all those when you take into account there was an entire society involved, either with actual violence or in complicity. Turning a blind eye to others in your group doing terrible things is also terrible.
In the name of Race, Religion, or body looks makes no difference.

Are we talking all the time or just when a Steeler vict.... ummm fan is involved?

No, I think what he is saying is that the more experiences you have, the more you will come to realize that people are just people.... If you choose to draw your conclusions based on a very small sample of experiences, like one tragic event, then you are missing out...

If, hypothetically, Clem had a very bad experience with Muslims at some point in the future... he would have those good experiences to counterbalance them and he would recognize that it's not because they are Muslims that they are bad, it's that they are bad people who happen to be Muslims... It's that way with any religion, any race, any political affiliation, any subset of people... the more experiences you have, the more you begin to understand the full range of people that identify with that characteristic... and the more likely you are to come away with the opinion that they are just people, some good, some bad....

And the absolute WORST way to develop an opinion on any group of people, is by watching the news. If that is the bulk of your exposure to a group of people, Muslims, inner city blacks, republicans.. surely you will come away thinking they are all insane, violent, irresponsible, etc...

All well and fine, good people and bad people.

Why would you want to allow to immigrate a people, good or bad, from areas of the world we are at war with, who have shown us their bad people want us dead while so often their good people turn a blind eye because they fear for their families back in the homeland?

Risk your own family, not mine.

Bring in more immigrants from frendly nations and leave the risky ones to the world they have built for themselves.

Yep.

I learn things and see certain things differently from posts such as yours. However, seeing yourself as formerly being a "bigot" in this instance is rather harsh in my opinion.

You simply didn't know what you didn't know. Your willingness to engage those folks disqualified you from being what I would call a "bigot".

I had similar unintentional ignorance (better words than bigotry, no?) with gay people. I was nearly out of college before I met an openly gay guy - but had my "suspicions" of others just like anyone else. I had no idea what to expect and had all kids of odd ideas - later known as ignorant ideas - on the matter. I didn't understand the meaning of the word "bigot".

Today I have many gay friends and acquaintances. I learned that they are really just like me accept for their sexual preference. I didn't/don't care what is the sexual preference of my hetero friends, so why would I care about the sexual preferences of my non-hetero friends? Kind of like the light going on. But not a light in a room darkened by racism or bigotry or any such thing...I was simply unknowing. I learned a lot while gaining that knowledge - if that makes sense.

As you stated, in your opening to your last thread:

"What I'm saying is that it's an uphill climb to explain/describe one's interactions with a little to no common ground between oneself and the person he's talking to."

Yours above written much more eloquently than mine:

You simply didn't know what you didn't know.

I learned in the service ... many many years ago ...

Color, religion, age, sexual preference, social or finanancial status ... none of that matters ..

there's good and bad people of all colors and creeds ... u got to get to know the person ...