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This is exactly the problem. 8 or 9 guys in the box on every play with no worry that Kessler is going to take the top off of the defense. I haven't noticed that much. I see the pocket collapsing with four and five man rushes. Maybe you're talking about early downs. But even then, I don't see an unordinary amount of stacking the line. Teams know we're weak up front, no reason to stack the box, IMO. There is no need to blitz and actually you want to drop 7 more often than not because Kessler is not a threat to throw deep. You keep your safeties up for run support Kessler isn't going to throw behind them.
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Hue called a few deep passes in this past game and I do think Kessler will hit on a couple of those moving forward.
Where I think he is limited is that he can't throw the deep outs and the intermediate throws [18--22 yards or so] between the hashes. That really limits your offense.
I will add this.............I would venture to say that if McCown returns, watch our running game magically become productive again.
Last edited by Versatile Dog; 10/18/16 03:45 PM.
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Hue called a few deep passes in this past game and I do think Kessler will hit on a couple of those moving forward.
Where I think he is limited is that he can't throw the deep outs and the intermediate throws [18--22 yards or so] between the hashes. That really limits your offense.
I will add this.............I would venture to say that if McCown returns, watch our running game magically become productive again. McCown or RG3 All you need is the threat of a deep ball and the safeties are back on their heels. Don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for a QB change because it's better to see Kessler grow as a QB than to see a win or two out of this team, but expect the running game to look more pedestrian and don't forget the reason why at the end of the year.
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Maybe I'm missing it, but like I said, I'm not noticing a lot of 8 or 9 man fronts.
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This is exactly the problem. 8 or 9 guys in the box on every play with no worry that Kessler is going to take the top off of the defense. I haven't noticed that much. I see the pocket collapsing with four and five man rushes. Maybe you're talking about early downs. But even then, I don't see an unordinary amount of stacking the line. Teams know we're weak up front, no reason to stack the box, IMO. There is no need to blitz and actually you want to drop 7 more often than not because Kessler is not a threat to throw deep. You keep your safeties up for run support Kessler isn't going to throw behind them. That is more along the lines of what I've noticed team doing, dropping into coverage as opposed to stacking the line. Even during early downs, I haven't noticed a lot of bodies up front. Sometimes, but not an excessive amount of time.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Or...
Could it be Erving?
I don't know for sure, but it seems to me the games Erving was out our run game was very effective. Games with him as center the running game stunk.
Am I perfect? No
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This is exactly the problem. 8 or 9 guys in the box on every play with no worry that Kessler is going to take the top off of the defense. I haven't noticed that much. I see the pocket collapsing with four and five man rushes. Maybe you're talking about early downs. But even then, I don't see an unordinary amount of stacking the line. Teams know we're weak up front, no reason to stack the box, IMO. There is no need to blitz and actually you want to drop 7 more often than not because Kessler is not a threat to throw deep. You keep your safeties up for run support Kessler isn't going to throw behind them. That is more along the lines of what I've noticed team doing, dropping into coverage as opposed to stacking the line. Even during early downs, I haven't noticed a lot of bodies up front. Sometimes, but not an excessive amount of time. They aren't stacking the line. They aren't blitzing. They just creep the safeties up and play them shorter. The safeties are there to stop the run if a RB gets past the line. All the DB's are playing a shorter field if it is a pass because Kessler can't throw that far and he then has to complete passes in much tighter windows.
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Or...
Could it be Erving?
I don't know for sure, but it seems to me the games Erving was out our run game was very effective. Games with him as center the running game stunk. Phil- 120 yds rushing - Erving Played, RG3 QB Bal- 145 yds - Erving played injured in the last minute, Josh McCown Mia- 169 yds - Cam did not play, Kessler Wash- 163 yds - Cam did not play, Kessler NE- 98 yds - Cam did not play, Whitehurst/Kessler Ten- 40 yds - Cam Played, Kessler
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j/c
Is it because Kessler can't throw that far or the line can't protect long enough for receivers to get that far?
Honestly, I think it's a confluence of a bunch of things, and until we hit something deep they'll keep playing the DBs up.
Crowell's lack of yards also coincides with the games Telfer missed.
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Teams are already figuring out how to beat the Browns. Basically all you have to do is wait for us to screw up.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Teams are already figuring out how to beat the Browns. Basically all you have to do is wait for us to screw up. Being crippled with injuries doesn't help either.
I bet you're wondering the samething I did, why O' why didn't I take the...blue pill
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Yeah as really the front office needs to be cleaned out and fast!
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Yeah as really the front office needs to be cleaned out and fast! Wut.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Yeah as really the front office needs to be cleaned out and fast!
I've never said that anyone should be replaced or fired.
...but I have stated that our front office lacks an experienced member with a background in football working with Sashi and Depodesta.
IMO, the lack of football experience began to show just months after these two took over. They took over a bad team and made it worse..maybe the worst in the NFL. Helluva job by the H-boys.
...they need help.
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It's just that he has limitations and those types of limitations typically catch up w/you sooner or later. Teams are already figuring out how to beat the Browns.
By showing up??;) I agree on Kesslers arm, but that can be overcome if he has a bit more time and maybe with a better option opposite Pryor. It's easy to take away Pryor and make Ricardo try to beat them. The guy is a Andre King clone. When the heck is Coleman slated for a comeback?
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I get all that, but you either have the arm or you don't Thats just false.
you had a good run Hank.
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I get all that, but you either have the arm or you don't Thats just false. How so? Kessler isn't(can't) improve his arm strength to any degree at this point in life. He can lift weights and get stronger, but strong really has little to do with throwing velocity.
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I get all that, but you either have the arm or you don't.
Has anyone even considered why our running game went from first in the league to downright pathetic?
Do you guys really believe that Crow and Duke got worse? Or that the OL is that much worse than it was a few weeks ago?
Have any of you considered that teams don't fear Kessler and our game planning to stop the run and daring Kessler to beat them, which in and of itself, would inflate his numbers?
Ever even considered it?
Crowell and Duke did not suddenly turn into crappy rbs..the offensive line was unable to control the line of scrimmage.
The Browns offensive line is a mess, due to the front office mistakes and injuries. The lack of quality depth also plays a part.
The most important members of the offense are the 5 starting OLinemen and their backups.
Without a quality offensive line, your skilled position players will not perform to their full capability.
All "the money" being spent on the skilled position players, QB, RB, WR, TE...is being "wasted" if the Sashi and Depo doe not place a higher priority on the offensive line.
The best example that might help some to understand the importance of the offensive line...JUST LOOK AT THE COWBOYS OFFENSE.
...Dallas is starting a rookie QB and a rookie RB and they are performing like the MVPs of the NFL. What kind of performance would Prescott and Elliott turn in if they played behind the Browns OLine?
The front office needs to rebuild the OLine, beginning with the center position. I would advise the boys, don't play moneyball with the offensive line. Invest in the best and it will pay huge dividends for years to come..ie-Joe Thomas.
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Predicting our rushing stats for the next game? 6 rushes for 10 yards?
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I'll try and explain again. New England was the first team that said that they were going to stop Crow and the running game. They dared Kessler to beat them through the air. Of course, it would be Belichick to identify what a team does best and take that away.
Tenn saw what NE did and followed suit. We'll have some inflated numbers in the passing game, but it's hard to dink and dunk your way to a victory each week. If Kessler can't hit some longer passes..........and no, I am not talking about bombs.........then, it's going to be tough-sledding in terms of winning games. However, many fans will be deceived by the statistical numbers of the passing game.
You have to challenge a defense by throwing deep outs on occasion.
You have to make sure they protect the deep middle of the field by hitting the 18--22 yard intermediate throws between the hashes. And I am not talking about 18-22 w/YAC.........I am talking about the ball traveling that far in the air.
If you can make those two types of throws, the safeties have to back-off and the linebackers need to drop into coverage a bit more, which in turn, opens up the running game.
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Yeah as really the front office needs to be cleaned out and fast!
I've never said that anyone should be replaced or fired.
...but I have stated that our front office lacks an experienced member with a background in football working with Sashi and Depodesta.
IMO, the lack of football experience began to show just months after these two took over. They took over a bad team and made it worse..maybe the worst in the NFL. Helluva job by the H-boys.
...they need help.Too late now. You have convinced us all.  FIRE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM!  Then shoot them.  The team is a joke.  Freakin Harvard Boys  We need to go back to the old days  The refs are against us  We keep drafting high character guys  Too many injuries  That's all I have to say about that. 
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I found some interesting stats here: Travis Benjamin - SD - 13 REC 147 yds 2 TDs / 4 punt returns for 29 yards / 1 rush for -1 yd. Taylor Gabriel - ATL - 3 REC 28 yds 0 TDs. Jordan Cameron - MIA - 7 REC 55 yards 1 TD Jim Dray - BUF - 0 stats. has been dinged up Karlos Dansby - CIN - 13 tackles 8 assists Paul Kruger - NOLA - 2 tackles 1 assist 1 fumble recovery Craig Robertson - NOLA - 18 tackles 6 assists Jabaal Sheard - NE - 5 tackles. Barkevious Mingo - NE - 1 tackle Ishmaa'ily Kitchen - street Billy Winn - DEN - 1 tackle Ahtyba Rubin - SEA - 3 tackles 1 forced fumble Phil Taylor - street, recently had a go with Denver placed on IR and cut. Justin Gilbert - PIT - no stats. Donte Whitner - on the street Tashaun Gipson - JAX - 6 tackles Buster Skrine - NYJ - 3 tackles 1 assist Pierre Desir - SD - 1 tackle Johnson Bademosi - DET - 1 tackle Jim Leonhard - Wisconsin Badgers secondary coach
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I found some interesting stats here: Travis Benjamin - SD - 13 REC 147 yds 2 TDs / 4 punt returns for 29 yards / 1 rush for -1 yd. Taylor Gabriel - ATL - 3 REC 28 yds 0 TDs. Jordan Cameron - MIA - 7 REC 55 yards 1 TD Jim Dray - BUF - 0 stats. has been dinged up Karlos Dansby - CIN - 13 tackles 8 assists Paul Kruger - NOLA - 2 tackles 1 assist 1 fumble recovery Craig Robertson - NOLA - 18 tackles 6 assists Jabaal Sheard - NE - 5 tackles. Barkevious Mingo - NE - 1 tackle Ishmaa'ily Kitchen - street Billy Winn - DEN - 1 tackle Ahtyba Rubin - SEA - 3 tackles 1 forced fumble Phil Taylor - street, recently had a go with Denver placed on IR and cut. Justin Gilbert - PIT - no stats. Donte Whitner - on the street Tashaun Gipson - JAX - 6 tackles Buster Skrine - NYJ - 3 tackles 1 assist Pierre Desir - SD - 1 tackle Johnson Bademosi - DET - 1 tackle Jim Leonhard - Wisconsin Badgers secondary coach 
I'll let you figure out why?  
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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Looks like the FO add a good job weeding out a good chunk of the mediocrity, doesn't it?
![[Linked Image from i28.photobucket.com]](http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c201/shadedog/mcenroe2.jpg) gmstrong -----------------
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I'll try and explain again.
I agreed with your point then I made my point about the quality of the Browns offensive line. Yea, it would be nice if we saw Kessler hit some intermediate passes as well as some deep passes...if his OLine gave him the time to do so and the wrs got open.
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Looks like the FO add a good job weeding out a good chunk of the mediocrity, doesn't it?
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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I am assuming lamp is looking at our old starters stats which shows that they are doing actually jack squat. (granted D Line is more then just numbers)
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I found some interesting stats here: Travis Benjamin - SD - 13 REC 147 yds 2 TDs / 4 punt returns for 29 yards / 1 rush for -1 yd. Taylor Gabriel - ATL - 3 REC 28 yds 0 TDs. Jordan Cameron - MIA - 7 REC 55 yards 1 TD Jim Dray - BUF - 0 stats. has been dinged up Karlos Dansby - CIN - 13 tackles 8 assists Paul Kruger - NOLA - 2 tackles 1 assist 1 fumble recovery Craig Robertson - NOLA - 18 tackles 6 assists Jabaal Sheard - NE - 5 tackles. Barkevious Mingo - NE - 1 tackle Ishmaa'ily Kitchen - street Billy Winn - DEN - 1 tackle Ahtyba Rubin - SEA - 3 tackles 1 forced fumble Phil Taylor - street, recently had a go with Denver placed on IR and cut. Justin Gilbert - PIT - no stats. Donte Whitner - on the street Tashaun Gipson - JAX - 6 tackles Buster Skrine - NYJ - 3 tackles 1 assist Pierre Desir - SD - 1 tackle Johnson Bademosi - DET - 1 tackle Jim Leonhard - Wisconsin Badgers secondary coach Check your numbers again. Looks like those numbers reflect stats only from the 1st or 2nd week. For example, on the season: Travis Benjamin has 31 catches for 411 yards and 2 TDs. Jamaal Sheard has 16 tackles, 3.5 sacks and 1 PDef Link Link
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I found some interesting stats here: Travis Benjamin - SD - 13 REC 147 yds 2 TDs / 4 punt returns for 29 yards / 1 rush for -1 yd. Taylor Gabriel - ATL - 3 REC 28 yds 0 TDs. Jordan Cameron - MIA - 7 REC 55 yards 1 TD Jim Dray - BUF - 0 stats. has been dinged up Karlos Dansby - CIN - 13 tackles 8 assists Paul Kruger - NOLA - 2 tackles 1 assist 1 fumble recovery Craig Robertson - NOLA - 18 tackles 6 assists Jabaal Sheard - NE - 5 tackles. Barkevious Mingo - NE - 1 tackle Ishmaa'ily Kitchen - street Billy Winn - DEN - 1 tackle Ahtyba Rubin - SEA - 3 tackles 1 forced fumble Phil Taylor - street, recently had a go with Denver placed on IR and cut. Justin Gilbert - PIT - no stats. Donte Whitner - on the street Tashaun Gipson - JAX - 6 tackles Buster Skrine - NYJ - 3 tackles 1 assist Pierre Desir - SD - 1 tackle Johnson Bademosi - DET - 1 tackle Jim Leonhard - Wisconsin Badgers secondary coach From that list, the one I would most like to have back is Sheard.. but of the players we lost, the one who has no stats that I would want back the most is Alex Mack.. he is now anchoring the OL for the most prolific offense in the NFL this season..
yebat' Putin
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Looks like the FO add a good job weeding out a good chunk of the mediocrity, doesn't it? No.
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Check your numbers again. Looks like those numbers reflect stats only from the 1st or 2nd week. Accuracy is not important when you are attempting to defend the FO.
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Looks like the FO add a good job weeding out a good chunk of the mediocrity, doesn't it? "Weeding" out? LMAO.... We kept Josh Gordon for god sake! This FO couldn't weed out cheech or chong!
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." Thomas Jefferson.
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I am assuming lamp is looking at our old starters stats which shows that they are doing actually jack squat. (granted D Line is more then just numbers) Yes, I assumed the poster had used current stats on his list, although I still think most of them have not performed well with their new teams.
gmstrong -----------------
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Looks like the FO add a good job weeding out a good chunk of the mediocrity, doesn't it? "Weeding" out? LMAO.... We kept Josh Gordon for god sake! This FO couldn't weed out cheech or chong! *LOL* .. we now have the reason they passed on Dak .. they were afraid they couldn't tell when he was stoned or not .. *L*
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JC
Heard Pat Kirwin talking about the Colts but it applies to us. He said:
You hire a first time head coach and a first time GM and you expect results right away. That just doesn't happen. You need 5 years. Will ownership be that patient?
FWIW
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
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JC
Heard Pat Kirwin talking about the Colts but it applies to us. He said:
You hire a first time head coach and a first time GM and you expect results right away. That just doesn't happen. You need 5 years. Will ownership be that patient?
FWIW I dont agree that you need 5 years. Seems like an excuse to me. The way the front office is set up, the top dawgs have people to lean on who have a ton of experience. This game isn't rocket science. You gather talent, and you let them play. There is a lot of time between day 1 and 5 years.. the between is highly important, and should show some sort of step in the right direction.
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There is a lot of time between day 1 and 5 years.. the between is highly important, and should show some sort of step in the right direction. Hence the reason we've re-booted so many times STR. I don't like it, but that's how it is/was. I'm seeing steps in the right direction at the moment...I hope they keep steeping.
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JC
Heard Pat Kirwin talking about the Colts but it applies to us. He said:
You hire a first time head coach and a first time GM and you expect results right away. That just doesn't happen. You need 5 years. Will ownership be that patient?
FWIW Hue's not a first time head coach fella's so I'm not sure how this is relevant .. IMO 3 years is the minimum any HC/FO should get ...
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My bad. I forgot about his time in Oakland. But as for the front office, it says there's a learning curve. Whatever timeframe your want to give, I think it needs to be in terms of years not months
Am I perfect? No
Am I trying to be a better person?
Also no
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