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OK I was going to put up a super sarcastic post saying how amazing Charlie Frye is and so forth....but 1...I just can't do it....I could try but I would never be able to finish it...LOL and 2 I won't have the time to do it...I just wanted to touch on 2 things and try to come back later with more.
First I just wanted to say something about Joe J at 3rd WR....I see exactly what you are saying about lining him up in the slot. However, this offense makes this completely moot. Because the receivers move all over in this offense. So it is not like the 3rd receiver is the designated slot receiver.
The last thing I want to talk bout here is not really on an individual by individual breakdown. Rather I want to speak in a little more gerneral sense of the offense and its success this year. Personally I think the success of this offense is going to come down to 2 people. Jamal Lewis, and whoever steps behind the center.If Jamal I healthy, we could actually have a running game. And we all know how Jamal can run when he is healthy and has a block. But we will have to have a QB that can make the defense pay when they crowd the box to stop the run. We cannot afford to be 1 dimensional as we have been since 1999. It doesn't matter whether it is one dimensional on the ground or 1 dimensional through the air. we will get killed if we don't have those 2 things.
If Jamal is heathy....teams will try to stack up to stop him. And the will unless we have a QB that can make them pay for trying to do it. If one of these guys can do that...we could hang with a lot of teams in this league and eventually start beating them...
anyway...good thread...will add more later...
I thought I was wrong once....but I was mistaken...
What's the use of wearing your lucky rocketship underpants if nobody wants to see them????
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Thomas will struggle year 1 without doubt...How much is the burning question...Suffice to say U and I both would take Thomas on a struggling day over Shaffer on his best...
Folks...THERE SIMPLY IS NO COMPARISON....
How quickly these guys get on the same page will dictate alot...I put little if any weight in OTA's and Mini's...These guys are all ROBOTS right now...And it hinders everything from a execution standpoint...Every single one on the offense is THINKING there way thru plays right now...It will get better...
Harrison & Vickers...These 2 should be HUGE in this offense in the flats...Pray that Chudzinski utilizes them because they can be a STRENGTH...One of the most deadly plays in the NFL is a RB in the flats with room to negotiate...And u touched on the 2nd level technique of Thomas/Steinbach/Fraley...That sets up potentially HUGE plays...It also helps spread the field...
I still don't think many understand the significance of what Savage did by "Comit to the Pit"...Take all these 3rd and shorts that were left on the field...All the times Frye was hit as he threw...Rushed to throw...PENALTIES...Speaking of penalties...THREE of the problems are GONE GONE...Andruzzi/Coleman/Shaffer out of the LT spot...These are DRIVE KILLERS....
U change those things and u change your entire offensive output...It all starts and stops UP FRONT...
Who said Lewis getting 1300 and 1700 yards???
If Lewis gets 1500 yards on the ground in 2007 we will be winning MORE THAN 8...
That's been the major problem here...When u can't run the ball u lose EVERYTHING...U run successfully and now u don't feel the need to throw on 3rd and 2 every damn time...U nullify all out blitzing...U have a successful PLAY ACTION GAME...And one thing I did see of Mr. Quinn is he appears to be an EXCELLENT Play Action QB...He does it well...
Get the playbook down and start playing NATURAL versus ROBOTICALLY...Key 1...
Get the RIGHT side situated (RG/RT)...Key 2...
Key 2???...If we go into the season with Shaffer at LT and McKinney at RG WE'RE IN TROUBLE...Regardless of the signing of one of the BEST 3 LG's in the NFL...BANK THAT ONE FOLKS...Shaffer will seriously hinder Steinbachs ability at LG simply because he needs ALL THE HELP HE CAN GET....
CRENNEL....Make a decision NOW...Get Thomas at LT for Training Camp and make the decision on your RG and RT...And if Shaffer AND Tucker are not starting I would not be surprised to see one of them GONE...Neither will be happy here playin' with the splinters in their fingers from pickin' the splinters outta their asses...
Go Browns!!!
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Quote:
Thomas will struggle year 1 without doubt...How much is the burning question
If Lewis gets 1500 yards on the ground in 2007 we will be winning MORE THAN 8...
Yes, yes and yes.
Unless our starting QB goes out there and plays like Kyle Boller his rookie year (note: even our WORST QB didn't look like Kyle Boller that year), we'll be able to ride Lewis to more victories than we project.
How many teams have players that rush for 1,500 and still stink? It just doesn't happen. Our D will be fresher and hopefully will be able to keep with it, and with more experience (unless Quinn gets the nod), improved pass protection AND the protection of the running game, we should be able to steal more of those close ones (read: Pittsburgh at home last season and Baltimore at home last season).
Is this the optimist in me talking? Absolutely. But there's some honest to goodness football logic in there as well. What was the stat "Whenever William Green rushes for over 100 yards, the Browns win?" That stat applies to most runningbacks anyway. Hell, Rudi Johnson in 2004, with Carson Palmer still learning the ropes of the QB position and a defense that was questionable AT BEST, carried the Bengals to 8 wins. 8 wins in a division where two of the other teams were 15-1 and 9-7. We all know who trailed behind in that year...
I put that in boldface since that's a significant example of what running the ball can do in a tough division even when your team isn't quite ready to emerge yet. Although I will say this, at that time, Palmer hadn't become one of the premier QB's and the Steelers were playing it safe with Ben (but still went 15-1) and the Ravens had Boller, so our rivals may have more "Strike quickly" capability now than they did then. That being said, I think the Steelers are on their way down this season and the Ravens continue to age. I don't like how we match up with the Bengals though, not until Quinn emerges.
(sidenote: my friends from Cincitucky would probably wet themselves for me actually admitting good things about their team...)
1,500 yards may be a lot to ask for, but I do think it's possible if Lewis is healthy again. 1,300 minimum. Again, if healthy. If he looks old, this changes the game and our potential record this season, in my eyes.
But 1,500 yards? Even if our QB play isn't good and neither is our defense, we'll STILL be in a lot of ball games and will squeak out our fair share.
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Quote:
Thomas will struggle year 1 without doubt...How much is the burning question...Suffice to say U and I both would take Thomas on a struggling day over Shaffer on his best...
I think Thomas will do just fine his first year... If D'Brick and Mangold can hold it down their rookie year, I dont see why Thomas can't do the same.
and one good thing is he only has to see Jerry Porter once this year, as oppose to twice.. lol.. so thats a plus.. cant wait for that Miami game. Maybe we can shut them out again.
and my thing with the offense.. they say motions are used a lot more.. so the QB better be watching that time clock at all times, cuz last year with our basic offense, there were plenty of times the Browns had to WASTE timeouts b/c they werent ready to call the play. It irritated the heck out of me.
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I still don't think many understand the significance of what Savage did by "Comit to the Pit"...Take all these 3rd and shorts that were left on the field...All the times Frye was hit as he threw...Rushed to throw...PENALTIES...Speaking of penalties...THREE of the problems are GONE GONE...Andruzzi/Coleman/Shaffer out of the LT spot...These are DRIVE KILLERS....
Way too many holding calls because either Shaffer or someone else else lacked lateral movement and had to reach out and grab someone..
This has the potiential to be the best line this team has assembled since it came back and yet it all hinges at who is starting at RG/RT.
CRENNEL....Make a decision NOW...Get Thomas at LT for Training Camp and make the decision on your RG and RT...And if Shaffer AND Tucker are not starting I would not be surprised to see one of them GONE...Neither will be happy here playin' with the splinters in their fingers from pickin' the splinters outta their asses...
I trust that will happen when TC begins..
I think the sooner Rac gets Shaffer/Tucker/McKinney practicing we'll see who fits and who doesn't..but I still don't have a problem with the loser being here for depth..
I am also concerned with Winslow..that knee may not hold up all season if it allows him to play at all...
QB will play itself out..that really doesn't bother me because I know whats coming of that.
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I'll try to reply to a few posters at once instead of creating a new post for each reply.
First of all, I would like to say that I just read a lot of good responses. A person can attempt to start a quality thread but it actually becomes a quality thread because of the responses it gets. You guys have done well. Thanks.
TripleO: I thought about including Barclay but he isn't here and he's probably facing an uphill battle. I really don't know if he would give us much more than the other two guys we have.
You're right about Edwards. If he plays well, it will also help our running game. Good point.
BigC: I really like Houk and was hoping we'd get him when he became available a few years ago. How bad is Miami's line if he can't do much there? That team would have been a playoff contender last year if their line was just mediocre.
I'm kinda going crazy wondering if the Browns are going to zone blocking this year. I wish the news would come out one way or the other.
Mourg: I'm almost hoping BQ will hold out. *L* I really don't want him starting this year.
I don't know if it matters much who wins the backup RB jobs. None of those guys will have a big impact.
I didn't like the fact that Savage picked Travis Wilson....another freaking WR.....but I agree w/you in that I think he could be very important for the Browns this year. They need him to step up. We need a route runner.
We have talent now on the OL, but it's going to take time. They have a lot on their platter.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Okay, I'm going to try and get to a few more of these. Again, thanks for all the solid contributions. I am always interested in people's takes. And it's great when there isn't a lot of agenda-fueled posts in a thread. Thus far, you guys have been outstanding. Saint: I think DA gets too much credit. In fact, I think some people are so down on Charlie that they elevate DA's capabilities. Of course, I hope I am wrong and you are right about him, because that would mean the Browns would be a better team. I guess when I watch DA, I understand why he was drafted where he was drafted. Quote:
One thing I want to caution people about.. read what Vers is saying about the QB's and the receivers and bear in mind how LONG it takes an offense particularly the OL to come together and start playing as a unit.. then be realistic about what record you think the Browns are going to do.. so far as I can tell, 6 wins is about what I expect.
I am glad there are realistic people on here. I think that 6 win prediction is pretty good. I have been thinking anywhere from 5 to 7 wins, but I need to see and hear more before making my final prediction.
ddubia: A couple of things. I did paint a very negative picture when I addressed the quarterbacks. But remember, I was speaking about this year. They are young and will improve, but it's going to be a struggle this year.
Think about this........have you been reading about the inordinate number of passes hitting the ground in the camps? Yeah, me too. Well, I think ....wait......I know this is happening because the guys are confused. They are all confused. And it is hardest on the quarterbacks. You want a QB to think, but you don't want him to think too much, if that makes any sense? If not, ask me and I'll explain.
Now, you compound that by having them learning a new, complex system w/the fact that they are all inexperienced........and it gets worse.
And guess what.........there are going to be breakdowns on the OL due to confusion. WRs and TEs will run incorrect routes. RBs will miss blitz pickups. And on and on. And when those things are going on around a young, struggling QB.......you get a QB who starts questioning everything, including himself. And the last thing you want from a QB is for him to be tentative. The mechanics go to hell next and when that happens......you end up w/a Tim Couch.
I do think Charlie should start, because he is very resilient. But, it will get to him too.
In regards to Charlie. Hey ddubia......I was one of the few who said he needed more time and I don't think we needed to draft BQ. I would have played it safe and grabbed another offensive or defensive linemen w/the 36th pick and kept next year's #1. So, I'm not really dissing Charlie. Read above as to why I painted that negative picture.
I wanna add this about Charlie. I don't think he is the kind of QB you want to tame too much. You certainly don't want to MAKE him stay in the pocket and play it safe.
Charlie Frye is not a system quarterback.
Charlie would be best in a system where he can move around and make plays. He needs smart receivers that know what the hell to do and can help him out some. Even at best...........Charlie will always make some mistakes. However, I think he is the kind of guy who can rise up and make plays out of nothing. I really felt he could be like a Terry Bradshaw type. That is.........his stats might not be good, but he'll make the plays when they count to win you games.
We'll never know now......at least not here in Cleveland.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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The zone scheme in KC is probaly pretty close to what we will see here. The stretches wont be as wide as what we see with LT in SD but he will still find himself with 2 or 3 options. which that should free up 'Winslow or Heiden for huge yards after the catch. slide out chip block and roll behind the coverage. Thats why Tony G is pretty much unstoppable. He blocks hard, slides off, looks like he is gonna run out and hit the safety but he just runs by him and gets open.
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Quote:
Thanks mac, but I did know that. I was projecting for opening day. And I don't see how in the world Shaffer could beat out Joe. Do you?
Vers...I like the idea of putting every position on the block, open for competition.
The question becomes, is it just for show or is this competition for starting positions for real?
Could Shaffer beat out Thompson for LT?
Anything is possible...
I do like the idea of promoting competition...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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Saint: I think DA gets too much credit. In fact, I think some people are so down on Charlie that they elevate DA's capabilities. Of course, I hope I am wrong and you are right about him, because that would mean the Browns would be a better team. I guess when I watch DA, I understand why he was drafted where he was drafted.
Quote:
One thing I want to caution people about.. read what Vers is saying about the QB's and the receivers and bear in mind how LONG it takes an offense particularly the OL to come together and start playing as a unit.. then be realistic about what record you think the Browns are going to do.. so far as I can tell, 6 wins is about what I expect.
I am glad there are realistic people on here. I think that 6 win prediction is pretty good. I have been thinking anywhere from 5 to 7 wins, but I need to see and hear more before making my final prediction.
Don't get me wrong, I think DA has a cannon and the NFL arm of the bunch BUT.. does he have it upstairs and have the smarts to make an offense go? And, does he have the ability to overcome a perceived mobility problem? Those are the questions about DA. Thus far, it seems that he plays on instincts and when he has to analyze thats when he goes bad. Now remember, thats just an impression so far and it remains to be seen what any of our QB's can do with an upgraded line.
As for my 6 pick, I reserve the right to see camp and how things play out in August and then decide if I think the Browns will be any better than 5 games. 6 was an optimistic number for me.
Yes, I believe that we have upgraded quite a few positions and we will be better in the future but.. I cannot say it enough that it's going to take some time for improved records and a playoff push.
SaintDawg™
Football, baseball, basketball, wine, women, walleye
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Vers, another good post and I can't add much because I agree with most of what you have said. Just a couple of things that won't really add much but want to throw out there.
Charlie Frye- I am putting alot of hope that he will improve his turn-over ratio this yr. That stat alone should/could at least keep us in a couple more games this yr., possibly giving us one or two more wins. Chuds offense and his knowledge of Frye can only help, it has allready been stated that this offense has more roll-outs than last yr. which should play to Charlie's strength.
Next and really tied to the first piont is something that hasn't really been mentioned that I beleive could play a HUGE role:
Wes Chandler. Robinski is gone and I feel that this move was LOOONNGGG overdue. Chandler was a former reciever and a darn good one at that. His coaching could really help the younger guys and just maybe Leon will listen to this guy. He is a former Pro-bowler and played in some darn good offenses in his career. You don't get to his playing level without knowing how to run ruotes and read your QB when a play breaks down. IF he can get the best out of Leon and help Wislon become the WR he thinks he can be.....that can do nothing but help both Charlie and the running game.
Can some of you guys with inside info tell us if you have heard anything in regards to Chandler?
My last piont will just be an extension of yours.
Our offense NEEDS Jamal Lewis to be the back he was two and three yrs. ago. This can only help our O-line and QB's and maybe give them some wiggle room to grow together and form a UNIT.
While not expecting a miracle season, IF Jamal can be the back he once was, we could have a season that makes us all smile with the possibities of next yr.
Born and breed with OSU, App. State alumni, but bleed orange and brown.
Go ARMY......Beat Navy!!!!!!
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I think DA has a cannon and the NFL arm of the bunch BUT.. does he have it upstairs and have the smarts to make an offense go? And, does he have the ability to overcome a perceived mobility problem?
Anderson's major problems are this..
He has a strong arm but he has horrible long range accuracy..he is better in intermediate passing..
His passes lack finesse as he will try to gun it rather than take something off ..
Just a flash back..remember Bernie Kosar?
He did not have a cannon but his long range passing was very accurate..
Next DA has excellent pre snap reads..he can sense a blitz, he can read the D's scheme up front.
But DA is like a young Dilfer..he cannot read coverages at all..
Any type of rotating zone or Cover2/3 will confuse him..
He will easily get faked into throwing into coverage and get picked..
So he lacks it upstairs ..and I've heard he is a bit of a arrogant person who may not take in everything he's being taught..
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Quote:
Could Shaffer beat out Thompson for LT?
I bet you $1,000,000 that Shaffer can beat out Thompson for LT...
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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I think u made one major phooba in this thread ... Quote:
there has been a lot of talk recently about how we have upgraded so much in regards to talent
u state that .. and then u proceed to COMPARE US TO THE REST OF THE NFL and not last years team ...
the statement u made was that WE IMPROVED not how we compare to the rest of the NFL ... u should ahve compared us to last year or changed the premise to ...
ALTHOUGH we HAVE IMPROVED were still laggin behind in 07 in the TALENT/EXPERIENCE categories ... therefore RAC should'nt be expected to win ...
anyhow .... on to the evals ...
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At this point in time, the Browns have one of the very worst set of quarterbacks in the entire NFL.
thats debatable in that there are ALOT OF NFL QB SITUATIONS THAT ARE ABSOLUTELY HORRIBLE going into 07 ...
our division is by far one of the best in QB'S with palmer and ben and mcnair .. but when u get outside of our division ... and this is not to say that this year were going to get even solid play from our QB position .. (onloy way that happens is if BQ suprises even me .. *L*) ...
KC .. HORRIBLE ...
Oakland .. *LOL* at this years QB's ..
Denver ... hey .. the CRITERIA IS THIS YEAR ...
Jackonsviles qb are WORSE THAN OURS .. they ALL STINK ... *L*
Houston .... exactly what are they hanging there hats on???
Tennessee .... they have a GREAT RB playing QB ..
Buffalo ... JP Losman?? PLEASE .....
Atlanta ... I'd take any of ours over Vick .. remember were talking QB here .. *L*
Washington ... i'm guessing Brunnel is gone .. so that leaves them with a VERY UNPROVEN Jason Campell ..
Detroit ... John Kitna a BACK UP ... he STINKS ..
Minnisota ... *LOL* .. PUTRID ...
thats alot of teams with some HORRIBLE HORRIBLE QB'ING ...
ours is going to be PRETTY BAD .. but theres alot of teams out there in as bad or WORSE shape than us ....
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The Mighty Quinn: I don’t think he is going to be ready this year, but that won’t stop many of you from bitching enough until the Browns relent.
so there not suppose to bitch cause of your OPINION??? IS THAT HOW IT WORKS?? *LOL* ..
its nice to keep lumping him in with the rest of the QB's coming out of college ... just throw what Wies says out the window cause U know more about BQ and the NFL than he does .... 
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BQ was not the Brown’s best pick this year,
*LOL* .. OK .. whatever u say Vers ...
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And considering QB is the most important position on the field,
maybe the BQ pick was the best pick we made this year since he plays the MOST IMPORTANT position on the field .. 
if we have to rely on our QB's to win .. WERE IN TROUBLE .. just like about 1/2 the TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE ...
i agree our QB's wont win many and it will be a tough hoe for them .. but were still not near as bad as u wanna make us out to be IN COMPARISION to the rest of the league ..
and were MUCH BETTER than we were last year heading into the season ...
so we have IMPROVED at this position based on Frye's and DA's added year alone ..
i gotta run .... will get to the rest when i have time ...
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JP Losman actually turned out pretty solid season last year and improved a lot. Steve Fairchild does a good job refining QB's mechanics and he made a QB of Losman.
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Quote:
JP Losman actually turned out pretty solid season last year and improved a lot. Steve Fairchild does a good job refining QB's mechanics and he made a QB of Losman.
Losman did show some improvement last year, but what is that saying?
He might be a mediocre QB?
If he was in their future why would they draft Trent Edwards?
Someone in the Bills war room needs to be shot. *L*
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Buffalo needed a backup...it's no different than when the Falcons drafted Schaub with Vick on board
Losman will do well in that offense. It's not super complicated, and he has the skill set. I think he's better than mediocre, but I get tired of fighting this battle. People remember how bad his first year starting was, and he's an easy joke for guys to make. I like him more than other overhyped young QBs like Amex Smith, Vince Young, Matt Schaub, etc
Last edited by BigC; 06/19/07 01:26 PM.
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but I get tired of fighting this battle.
 No one is battling you.
You like JP losman, ok that's fine. I never said he was a bumb.
I just think the Bills had more pressing needs than backup QB in the 3rd round. If he is the future.
No need to get all defensive.
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Nah, wasn't talking about you in particular. It just seems on any message board on the net, if you say anything positive about Losman, you get a bajillion
"D00D Losman ain't nuttin yo! Vince Young be bombz diggity! You can't hang wit dat!!!!!"
type responses.
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Mourg: Just curious about how you came to the conclusion that our line play will resemble KCs? Not being a smart ass......I'm just curious. I've been very interested in hearing more about our OL scheme for this year.
nc: It would be great to cut the turnovers down, but I am a bit worried because I think there will understandably be a lot of confusion this year. Lot's of new faces and a new, complex system. Additionally, most of our skill guys are inexperienced. That usually leads to a lot of turnovers. I'm not saying it will, but that is usually the case.
I don't think Chandler has a great deal of coaching experience, but he was a very good WR. He was a good route runner and technically sound. I don't think Robo was a bad coach, despite what you hear on this board. Around the NFL....he is very highly respected. He sure wasn't out of work for long, was he?
Attack and Saint: I think DA has some major flaws in his game. Attack is right about him struggling at reading coverages. He is also immobile as hell, and he lacks touch. Oh.......and he is not very accurate.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Great post Vers. I agree with just about everything you said. The only exception would be your take on Joe J. Maybe I read it wrong but are you saying he should be a 3rd receiver on THIS team? I can't seem to find a better receiver on our roster much less 2.  I would say that ideally yes I would like him to be the # 3 because that would best suite his abilities but sadly the browns don't have that luxury. Edwards may be more physically gifted but until he can prove it on the field I'm not jumping on the bandwagon. After that we just have a lot of unknowns.
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You guys keep saying Chandler and I keep think you're talking about the BigC :-(
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Quote:
Attack and Saint: I think DA has some major flaws in his game. Attack is right about him struggling at reading coverages. He is also immobile as hell, and he lacks touch. Oh.......and he is not very accurate.
Worst of all, he forces the ball...
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Ooops.......I got out of order.
Style: I'm glad I could bring you out of hibernation. I usually like reading your takes.
I hope you are right about Wilson. Do you have his college scouting report? I'd be interested in seeing that. If the part about him being a good route runner is indeed true, then he probably will play a much larger role this year.
About Lewis---------don't let him playing for a rival bother you. The days of loyalty and heated rivalries are dying out. FA changed all that years ago......and not for the better, I might add.
It seems that most people really love Harrison. Does anyone know why he lasted until the 5th round?
Charger: In theory, the quarterback play should be improved, but I wonder if the confusion will hurt their play this year? I did hear that they will go to the LOS w/two plays called. It will be the QBs job to pick the correct play at the LOS. That's great, but it can also add to the confusion. Everyone has to be on the same page.
And I need to make this clear. I am not bad-mouthing any of these moves. In fact, I think they are great. But, I realize that it's going to take some time and there will be growing pains.
I agree w/you on the improved talent at RB and on the OL. But again, I think it might take some time for the OL to come together. But again, at least in my case, I ain't looking for them to win a ton of games this year. I think this will be a learning year.
I know the players are excited about Chud's system. That's a positive. But, as much as we hate to admit it.........it would probably be wiser to take a wait and see approach. We haven't seen it on the field yet.
I'll try catching up w/the rest of you later.......
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
Quote:
Attack and Saint: I think DA has some major flaws in his game. Attack is right about him struggling at reading coverages. He is also immobile as hell, and he lacks touch. Oh.......and he is not very accurate.
Worst of all, he forces the ball...
.............................................................................
And Frye dosn't ???????????
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Please, let's not make this a Charlie/Frye love/hate thread? Thanks. 
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Vers , I could care less about who starts at QB .. Just as long as he ( or she  ) gives us the best chance to win . But some times the statements mad on the board crack me up , ie. !
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Legend
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Legend
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Midseason recap
By Nick Schenck, Chargers.com
Coming off a 4-12 season with a re-built offensive line, a new defensive scheme and one of the youngest teams in the NFL, the Chargers entered training camp with a lot of uncertainty. The team made no bold promises or predictions, but did vow to work hard, take one game at a time and let the chips fall where they may.
Nine games into the season, the results have been favorable.
The Chargers' offense currently leads the NFL in touchdowns (32) and scoring (262). The defense is second against the run (81.1), allowing the fewest rushing yards (730) since 2000, when they gave up 729 rushing yards in nine games. And on special teams, rookie Nate Kaeding has made 12 of 13 field goals, including all five beyond 40 yards, while Mike Scifres leads the NFL with 17 punts for fair catches.
Nevertheless, the stat that Chargers Head Coach Marty Schottenheimer points to as the most responsible for the team
Last edited by Pdawg; 06/19/07 03:45 PM.
#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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#gmstrong
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Legend
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Legend
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Offensive line
In their first nine games, the Bolts' offensive line has dispelled the notion that the best offensive lines are ones that have spent years playing together.
Offensive tackle Roman Oben arrived through a trade with Tampa Bay and right guard Mike Goff signed as a free agent this offseason, while right tackle Shane Olivea and center Nick Hardwick were drafted in the third and seventh round of the NFL Draft, respectively. The fifth starter, left guard Toniu Fonoti, missed all of last season due to injury.
The five players have fit together well. Thanks to their efforts, the Chargers rank seventh in the league with 136.1 rushing yards per game and 10th with 4.4 average yards per rush. In the passing game, the offensive line has allowed only 12 sacks, which is the sixth-lowest total in the NFL. In the past six games, they
Last edited by Pdawg; 06/19/07 03:49 PM.
#gmstrong
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mmmmm, a rebuilt line.... a pro bowl QB?
That's coincidence for ya!
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Legend
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Quote:
In their first nine games, the Bolts' offensive line has dispelled the notion that the best offensive lines are ones that have spent years playing together.
There is always an exception to the rule... the question is though, do you want to keep turning over the OL until someday we luck into being like the Chargers? Or do we want to build it through draft picks and continuity and be like the Patriots, Colts, Chiefs, Ravens, Steelers....
yebat' Putin
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Legend
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Legend
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The later of course. I was upset that we only drafted on O lineman this year. Granted, he may be a great one but I don't like a lot of lineman with short term contracts. If McKinney can overcome his injury and play well hopefully we can sign him to a long term contract. We may have built this line through FA but I believe only Tuck is thirty or over of all the possible starters.
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1st String
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I can't seem to get this story to post. Here's the link.
http://www.chargers.com/news/headlines/news-1100160000.htm
It's about how well the Chargers rebuilt line played.
Midseason recap
Send to a friend Print Page Adjust font size Thursday, Nov 11, 2004
By Nick Schenck, Chargers.com
Coming off a 4-12 season with a re-built offensive line, a new defensive scheme and one of the youngest teams in the NFL, the Chargers entered training camp with a lot of uncertainty. The team made no bold promises or predictions, but did vow to work hard, take one game at a time and let the chips fall where they may.
Nine games into the season, the results have been favorable.
The Chargers' offense currently leads the NFL in touchdowns (32) and scoring (262). The defense is second against the run (81.1), allowing the fewest rushing yards (730) since 2000, when they gave up 729 rushing yards in nine games. And on special teams, rookie Nate Kaeding has made 12 of 13 field goals, including all five beyond 40 yards, while Mike Scifres leads the NFL with 17 punts for fair catches.
Nevertheless, the stat that Chargers Head Coach Marty Schottenheimer points to as the most responsible for the team’s early success is the Bolts’ plus-eight turnover ratio, tied for sixth best in the league.
Ultimately, the only stat that matters is in the win column: the Chargers are 6-3 and tied with the Denver Broncos for first place in the AFC West.
Cool Brees
Nobody would have thought before the season that the Chargers would lead the NFL in scoring and rank 11th in total offense with running back LaDainian Tomlinson rushing for more than 100 yards only twice through nine games.
However, with Tomlinson slowed by a groin injury, the Bolts have received Pro Bowl-caliber performances from quarterback Drew Brees and tight end Antonio Gates, not to mention superb production from a revamped offensive line and several key role players.
Quarterback
Brees has played as well as any quarterback in the league up to this point in the season. He ranks third among NFL starters in passer rating (108.7) and has thrown 18 touchdowns with only three interceptions. His completion percentage is a career-best 66.1 percent.
“It’s a comfort level,” Brees said of his play this year. “Being out there on the field, obviously I have a tremendous amount of confidence in myself and what we can do as an offense. It’s starting to be the way it should be.”
In the past two games against the Oakland Raiders and New Orleans Saints, Brees has thrown nine touchdown passes and no interceptions. For his efforts, he was voted FedEx Air & Ground NFL Player of the Week the past two weeks. Donovan McNabb and Daunte Culpepper are the only two other players to have won the award twice this season.
Running back
Tomlinson admittedly is not 100 percent due to his injury, but his production is still among the NFL’s best running backs. He’s tied for fourth in the NFL with eight rushing touchdowns and is tied for sixth with four rushes for more than 20 yards. He’s also second on the team, and sixth among NFL running backs, with 27 receptions for 249 yards.
The time off this week will allow Tomlinson to mend his groin, which should make the Chargers’ offense more dangerous through the final portion of the season. Schottenheimer already sees signs of improvement.
“I went back and was looking at the tape of our game against New Orleans the other day and I saw (Tomlinson make) two cuts going to his right that were vintage L.T.,” Schottenheimer said. “Is he 100 percent yet? I don’t know that he is. And I’m not sure that this week of rest will put him in that situation. But I know this: I’ve seen clear, visual evidence of him making the kind of cuts that we’re accustomed to seeing him make.”
If anything positive has come out of Tomlinson’s injury it is the emergence of Jesse Chatman. The third-year running back has set career highs with 47 carries for 337 yards and three touchdowns. Among running backs with more than 30 carries, Chatman leads the NFL in yards per rush (7.2). He also is tied for third in the NFL with five carries for longer than 20 yards.
Fullback Lorenzo Neal has opened gaping holes for the running backs and chipped in with 82 yards of total offense, including 12 catches.
Wide receiver
At the start of the season, the Bolts’ top four wide receivers—Reche Caldwell, Eric Parker, Tim Dwight and Kassim Osgood—had a combined 239 receptions in 11 NFL seasons.
Despite their inexperience, the unit has done well. Before his injury in Week 6, Caldwell caught 18 passes for 310 yards and three touchdowns. Parker has hauled in 24 catches for 311 yards and two scores, while Dwight and Osgood, who have more prominent roles on special teams, have chipped in with nine catches for 45 yards and one touchdown each.
The passing game took a major step forward three weeks ago when the Chargers traded for Pro Bowl wide receiver Keenan McCardell. The 12-year veteran has made a seamless transition into the starting lineup, recording 15 receptions for 209 yards with one touchdown. His chemistry with Brees has been evident from when he first arrived.
“He’s been around a long time and ran just about every route in the book,” Brees said. “I feel very confident throwing to him...We’re able to just kind of look at each other and know what should be done.”
Tight end
Just the mere fact that Antonio Gates is being mentioned in the same breath as perennial All-Pro Tony Gonzalez and former Chargers Hall of Famer Kellen Winslow should give you an idea of how immensely talented he is.
But when you think that less than two years ago Gates was playing college basketball, the second-year tight end’s achievements become much more impressive.
Gates, who was recently voted to the Pro Football Weekly’s 2004 Midseason All-Pro Team, leads the NFL with 54 catches and ranks 13th with 602 receiving yards. Gates’ eight touchdown grabs is tied with Randy Moss and is second only to Terrell Owens’ nine.
“I’m not (surprised),” Schottenheimer said of Gates’ production. “Only because when you get to know Antonio, nothing really seems to bother him. He is very confident in a rather soft-spoken sort of way about his abilities. Obviously, we’re working to feature him as much as we can.”
Justin Peelle is used more in a blocking role, but he has shown he can contribute to the passing game as well, registering six catches for 52 yards and two touchdowns.
Offensive line
In their first nine games, the Bolts’ offensive line has dispelled the notion that the best offensive lines are ones that have spent years playing together.
Offensive tackle Roman Oben arrived through a trade with Tampa Bay and right guard Mike Goff signed as a free agent this offseason, while right tackle Shane Olivea and center Nick Hardwick were drafted in the third and seventh round of the NFL Draft, respectively. The fifth starter, left guard Toniu Fonoti, missed all of last season due to injury.
The five players have fit together well. Thanks to their efforts, the Chargers rank seventh in the league with 136.1 rushing yards per game and 10th with 4.4 average yards per rush. In the passing game, the offensive line has allowed only 12 sacks, which is the sixth-lowest total in the NFL. In the past six games, they’ve only given up five sacks.
Schottenheimer admitted that he is surprised by how well the offensive line has done under the circumstances, and credits the veteran leadership as one of the contributing factors.
“I could not have imagined that even with (offensive line coach) Hudson Houck coaching them that they could’ve performed over nine games at the level at which they’ve performed,” Schottenheimer said. “It’s a real tribute to them, Hudson, and I would say more importantly than anything else, the two veteran guys we have in there. Roman Oben has been terrific for us, and Mike Goff. They’re the glue that holds this thing together.”
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Dawg Talker
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Kudos on your post and all the follow-ups.
I am NOT and X's and O's guy, (I do learn alot off of you guys on this board, however) but I know a good product on the field when I see one and obviously I have yet to see one to date.
That being said, I really think any debate about how much improved Frye or Anderson may be this year is moot only unless it relates to Brady Quinn. He is going to start sooner or later. If Frye and Anderson play well enough to motivate him into EARNING the starting spot and KEEPING the starting spot then it's a great thing to think about. Otherwise, as far as I see it, it becomes a debate over who is the better long-term backup.
No amount of minicamp ballyhoo excites me or unnerves me because I don't have much confidence in all three. Not until game time.
I think what would really help our quarterbacks, aside from a better o-line, is a defense that can make the stops and get off the field as well as keep the score down so we are not playing from behind on the scoreboard.
I take some comfort at least that we drafted Thomas, Winslow should be a big factor again, and maybe we will have some semblance of a running game this year. (crossing my fingers)
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I'm more excited about this team, even though I don't think they will have a great record, than I have been in a long time. I think we finally have some players and it's going to be fun watching them grow.
I think that says it all. 
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Fort: I am almost positive that Joe will start. And like you, I think he will learn quickly.
Pete: Glad you didn't do the Frye thing.
I think a lot of Lewis' success will be tied into how the QB plays. If the QB and WRs can't make a defense pay, then teams will stack the LOS and gear to stop Lewis.
I hope you are right that the Browns will put JoeJ in the slot. He's can do a lot of good things from there.
DinD: You're always optimistic.....LOL. Hell, you told me we could win 10 games last year. I think we are improving talent wise, Dawg.....but it's going to take some time.
I'd like to see them put Joe over there now too. I also think it's important to get Shaffer reps on the right side, provided they are going to keep him. Then again, they may not keep him. And I don't think there is a chance in hell that Shaffer beats out Tucker. The only way Shaffer starts is if he outplays McKinney in camp and they move Tuck to RG.
Ammo: I love your optimism and enthusiasm. But what happens if the team struggles? You will be calling for heads. Temper it, man.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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I hope you are right about Wilson. Do you have his college scouting report? I'd be interested in seeing that. If the part about him being a good route runner is indeed true, then he probably will play a much larger role this year.
Well Vers....guess I am the scouting report provider 
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/wilson_travis
Travis Wilson
Height: 6-2
Weight: 213
40 Speed: 4.53*
Position: Wide Receiver
College: Oklahoma
Final Grade: I 5.5
SUMMARY
Wilson is a good college receiver who really stepped up in 2005 after being primarily a backup throughout his career. He has quick feet and, although he does not burst off the ball into routes, once he get moving, he accelerates to full speed quickly and can get open on short and medium routes. His quickness enables him to get open on short/medium routes despite not running sharp routes. He has excellent hands and can consistently catch any pass thrown his way -- he can get up to pluck the high pass and can lay-out to catch the slightly overthrown ball. While he has quick feet and good playing speed, he lacks the top-level playing speed to stretch the field and get separation deep. He is a thin receiver and, despite competing hard when he runs, he does not consistently break tackles and gain yards after contact. He finished his career in style and was surprisingly consistent catching the ball and making plays for an Oklahoma team that struggled passing the ball in 2005. He probably can't be a starting receiver in the NFL, but he can be a good third or fourth receiver who can make plays because of his very good hands, quickness and competitiveness.
STRONG POINTS
Wilson is a quick-footed receiver who accelerates to full speed quickly with the ball in his hands and consistently runs hard after the catch. He shows toughness going up and catching the high pass in traffic without peeking at the defense, takes the hard hit right after the catch and holds onto the ball -- he has shown the hands and jumping ability to get up and catch the high pass surprisingly well. He has very good hands to reach out and make the tough catch when he catches the ball with hands.
WEAKNESSES
While Wilson has quick feet, good acceleration and playing speed, he is a little stiff and runs upright in routes which hinders his ability to consistently runs sharp routes. Despite his quick feet, he does not burst off the ball into his route and does not show the playing speed to get separation on deep routes. He did not run a variety of routes in college, and he does not consistently break tackles and gain yards after contact. He also tends to be a body catcher. He does not give a good effort as a blocker and struggles to eliminate his man because of it.
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and here
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