DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Front Office..continued...

And that person is Andrew Berry. He is the one with the "experience". Now whether one thinks it's enough experience, is up for debate. But he is just another Harvard Boy, right?

His views oppose mine if he wants them all fired, which by his incessant comments about the FO, is where I'm believe he stands. Whether or not he says it, doesn't change anything. The 100 or so emails repeating the same thing and saying how bad they are is enough for me. Sashi is the man in charge right now, whether we like it or not. I'm not sure bringing in a 'football guy' removes control from him. The "football guys" are Berry and his scouts. I think if you change any of that the whole hierarchy, it will all be lost. You either stick with the current dynamic or blow it all up. I think Mac, and most others on here would understand that. And we know about football guys wanting their own football coach, right? We see where that path leads too.

I don't believe mac wants another football person in here with experience. I think he wants them all gone. I just wish he would come out and say it.

What you believe may not be the truth. And why are you so gung-ho about this? What is the point?

We have a ton of guys on this board who want Ray Horton fired. Ray Horton isn't as responsible for the poor defense as the FO is. But, that's okay...............let's just pick on mac because his opinions are different than the majorities.

If the Browns are 0-9, shouldn't the head coach be in trouble? Doug Lesmerises

By Doug Lesmerises, cleveland.com
Email the author | Follow on Twitter
on November 08, 2016 at 6:35 AM, updated November 08, 2016 at 6:36 AM
link

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- If you have the wrong coach, you can't get rid of him too soon.

When you know, you know. That's why two years of Eric Mangini and two years of Pat Shurmur and one year of Rob Chudzinski and two years of Mike Pettine was enough.

So why not wonder about Hue Jackson, as the 0-9 Browns approach losing lows seen not even in Cleveland? It's a question at least worth mulling over as the idea of a winless season in theory proves easier to stomach than a winless season in reality, when the future means nothing more than a November and December to dread.

So let's ask, if only to be fair in retrospect to Mangini, Shurmur, Chudzinski and Pettine.

Should Jackson be in danger of losing his job?

No. Because you can't do that. And you shouldn't do that.

The "can't" is because you have to draw the line somewhere, and in the afterglow of the Indians, with their cohesive plan and group of decision makers, any idea of more Browns change is just a straight up no. It would make the Browns look like lunatics. You have to give someone a real shot. Jackson is the guy.

Where's the line drawn? Six head coaches in the last nine years is the line. Ask why Jackson may be getting a pass from fans and media, and it's clear that he must. The alternative is so franchise-altering and dangerous that it can't be considered.

• Jackson says DC Ray Horton is safe, "no question"

But there's also the "shouldn't." Jackson has some terrible players on this team. The Browns have some rather decent former players on other teams. The point Joe Thomas made earlier this season about the Browns lacking a middle class of solid fourth- and fifth-year players was astute. Why do they lack that? Constant coach and front office turnover.

Evaluating Jackson and his staff each week is a must, and blowing a 13-point halftime lead as part of second-half collapse against the Jets, and a four-quarter defensive breakdown against Dallas, doesn't just get excused.

Jackson and the assistants deserve to be called on that.

But, honestly, the team is pretty awful. There are players in orange all over the field that won't be here in a year or two, or least when the final unveiling of this plan (which certainly is not guaranteed to work) comes together.

At this point, and actually from the start, I think a true declaration of not exactly tanking, but prioritizing future building for one season, may have helped the Browns cause. Because clearly there is purpose to this losing, and with the rash of injuries, there are causes for this losing.

But at this point, it's hard to ask anyone who has been around Cleveland to differentiate between the losing.

"No, no, this is the good kind of losing, trust us, it is."

Hard sell. Though it's real.

The Browns are at least now leaking out that idea.

Jackson said last Friday that Cody Kessler is starting at quarterback in part because Jackson and the Browns need to figure out if he can be the quarterback of the future or if they need to draft a quarterback in 2017. Brilliant. It's the right idea to do, and right idea to say it.

The Browns traded a third-round pick for linebacker Jamie Collins not because he's going to fix this defense right now, but because he could be a defensive cornerstone for the future. The Browns have the money to pay him and the bounty of picks to gamble on him. Brilliant. But don't only get caught up in the plays Collins made or didn't make Sunday. Not the point.

So the defense is a mess. No doubt. But guess what? The Browns know that. They also know they have Danny Shelton and Carl Nassib and Emmanuel Ogbah and Christian Kirksey and now Collins, and some pieces for next year.

Not 11 pieces. Far from 11 pieces. But getting frantic over the guys making mistakes and blowing games who aren't part of anyone's long-term plan is just going to make you crazy.

That's what must be accepted here. This losing is different. This losing is going to lead to a quarterback or game-changing defensive player in the top three picks, likely at No. 1.

So divorce yourself from Sundays, and this week Thursday, if you must.

This is the plan. This is the reality. I'd say the Browns are stuck with it, but that implies they'd wish for something else. That means you're stuck with it, too. That may be cruel, but it's so true it hurts.

Asking if Jackson's job should be in jeopardy is like digging up a seedling to see if its roots are growing properly. If you check, you're going to kill it anyway. So for now, you have to let it be.

Jackson should probably get three years minimum, maybe four. But even next year, ask away. We'll be asking if 2017 looks too much like 2016.

For the next seven games, evaluate, ponder and plan. That's the right, and only, thing to do.

Click the link to vote in the poll: Should Hue Jackson's job be in jeopardy?
Poll

It's not picking on anyone. Posters gravitate to other conversation points more than others. Horton staying or going doesn't mean anything to me. Bashing a FO because they are from Harvard, just nine weeks into the season, and throwing Moneyball around like he knows what the hell the term actually means is something I'd rather discuss.

The Harvard boys (and I'm still not sure why that is suddenly a bad thing) officially took over January 2016.

Sasha was here for a while prior, but not in a position to make those decisions.

HOW MANY TIMES does this need explained to you.

I agree w/this 100%.

That was a good article that was accurate on many of its points.

I think the constant losing is going to take its toll on the team, the fans, and the media. Heads will probably roll when the team only wins a few games this year and next. And in my mind, that is one of the huge flaws w/the plan.

You guys saying it over and over is not proof. Links have been provided that clearly states what Sashi's job title was.

Who is Sashi Brown, the Cleveland Browns' new executive VP of football operations?

on January 03, 2016 at 10:20 PM, updated January 03, 2016 at 11:10 PM
link


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Browns' new executive VP of football operations has been a man on the rise in the sports business world. Brown was named to the Sports Business Journal's "Forty Under 40" list in 2015.

Brown, named the team's executive VP of football operations on Sunday, was hired as the executive vice president/general counsel by the Browns in January 2013. This season marked Brown's 11th in the NFL. Brown will have "ultimate say over the roster," according to Haslam.

Brown has overseen the team's salary cap, negotiations of player contracts and worked closely with fired general manager Ray Farmer.

"Sashi, I believe, is the right person to do this for the Cleveland Browns," owner Jimmy Haslam said on Sunday. "He's been in the NFL for 10-plus years, has been involved in the cap and has been heavily involved in our football administration and operations for the last year or two. He's very smart, very organized, good at systems and processes and an outstanding team player. He's also very strategic so we will use those skills and working for him will be a GM whose primary job will be talent acquisition."

Brown's role with the team on the business end prior to his promotion includes contract negotiation, government affairs, employment matters, insurance and risk management, licensing and intellectual property issues and litigation management.

"A challenge for NFL teams has been finding people that can bridge the gaps between business and football operations," Brown told ClevelandBrowns.com in April. "Finding synergies and ways to work with people on both sides are unique and can provide tremendous value."

Brown was born in Boston and received his B.A. in communications from Hampton University. He attended Harvard Law School.

Brown's most recent football job prior to the Browns was with the Jacksonville Jaguars, where he served as senior vice president and general counsel. He played a role in negotiating the naming rights deal for EverBank Field.

Prior to that, Brown worked in the Washington D.C.-based law firm Wilmer, Cutler, Pickering, Hale and Dorr as part of the business transactions group.

Sashi was hired by the Browns on Jan 17, 2013 and was negotiating contracts for the Browns. Sashi negotiated contracts for Jags prior to coming to the Browns in 2013.



Farmer was hired in 2014 and Sashi had already been negotiating contract a year before Farmer was hired.

Alex Mack's rookie contract was for 5 yrs..2009 to 2014. Before Farmer was hired, Sashi had time to negotiate Mack's next contract. Mack was tagged with the transition tag in April 2014.

Ray Farmer was hired Feb 11, 2014..and I doubt that he would have had much to do with negotiating Mack's contract. Sashi was already doing that work, negotiating contracts since Jan. 2013.

just sayn...

The best I recall is that DePodesta really didn't have much to do with this last draft. He was more an observer to see how we could improve going forward.

Yep..https://factoryofsadness.co/2016/04/22/c...-in-1st-season/

so he bought himself a free year of pay haha

If we get crushed Thursday night...and its some debacle like the Nightmare Before Christmas some 51-0 drubbing...I think you pull the plug at that point.

0-16 is not acceptable...any plan that losing is part of the plan are people you don't even hire in the 1st place..the goal is always to win no matter what....draft picks be damned you try and win!

if this regime survives an 0-16 season our owners(Jimmy and Dee) are more stupid then they look...it makes them more inept then Junior could have ever hoped to be.

No one should be fired!!!

Firing people is perhaps the biggest reason we are in this mess.

If they go 0-16 they should...it would be a mistake not to. We have made some mistakes in the past firing people when we should have stayed the course, 0-16 is the worst.

Your telling me the Detroit Lions should have kept Matt Millen and Rod Marineli after an 0-16 season? No way!

Our problem hasn't been firing people, our problem has been not hiring the right people.

We have had one good coach since our Return...Butch Davis...the guy won 7 games with a roster full of trash in his first year and took us to the playoffs in a game we should have won(A Northcutt drop cost us the game) in year two. We haven't had a guy close to being the right guy since.

These guys in the front office...Jackson also doesn't appear to be the right guy either...i think he is great coordinator...but head coach...i dunno....

If the Browns want to keep Jackson fine, keep him(as long as he wins 1 game) but give the guy a chance by getting these Anaylitic Harvard morons out of our front office before they drive the team into the ground.

Simply put

Hue Jackson has ZERO CHANCE to turn this around as long as Brown and Depodesta and that Harvard crew of dolts is picking his players for him...these guys are clueless and got outsmarted by Jerry Jones of all people....

Yes, you've posted this article several times already. None of it discusses what I brought up in any meaningful way.

Sashi didn't make the call on who to sign or re-resign. If Banner wanted it done, it would have been done. You act like (and have used this article before) like Sashi had power on who to sign or not.

I don't doubt Sashi was in the meetings and I'm pretty sure I've said that before. Sashi was there to work with agents on deals, make sure everything was legal from a contract language POV, and that we were mindful of cap space.

Banner, and subsequently, Farmer made decisions on who to sign. Not Sashi. However, he has the power now.

I have a few questions:

--Do you have a link that states that Sashi had no role in the negotiating a contract w/Mack and others? mac provided a link that says that Sashi was in charge of contract negotiations. Do you have one that refutes that claim?

--Why would Sashi have no say in negotiating contracts if that was part of his job description?

--Why in the world would Haslam give Sashi so much power this year if Sashi had not proven himself at all w/the organization and was instead, a mere puppet who was run over by Banner and Farmer?

--Assuming that Sashi had absolutely no say in negotiating contracts w/players [a gigantic stretch] did teams like Atlanta, Kansas City, Jacksonville, and San Diego have more time to negotiate contracts w/those players than Sashi did?

--If the aforementioned players would not re-sign w/the Browns under any circumstances, what does that say about their faith in ownership and the new FO?

The inadvertent upside is that they have a built-in exceptionally wide range for what will be considered success next year. Anything from 3-13 and up. A jump to 6-10 would look down right miraculous. Go 7-9 and they'll start commissioning statues.

You clearly didn't read my post, or if you did, to quote you..."reading comprehension".

(1) Don't make stuff up. I never said he was a puppet and run over. That's very poor form out of you...again. I'm saying he did his job...in the room working with agents as a lawyer. I assume you have a broad understanding why lawyers would be in the room for contract negotiations, right??

(2) Why did Haslem promote Sashi...


http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleve...y-farmer-010416

A separate issue and a huge problem for this organization since 1999.

Show me where it was his job to pick talent or lock up players to long term contracts. And when I say "his Job" I don't mean to do the paperwork, it probably was his job to handle the details of a contract, but not to make the decisions on who to sign or not sign.

That was Banner or Farmer or Lombardi or whoever, but it wasn't Sashi. Depo wasn't here yet.

The problem in this particular case was Farmer I think. Might have been banner but I think it's more Farmer.

Ahhh............answering all those questions w/an insult.

Well done.

Mac, I think this comment has been largely overlooked the first 100 times you've posted this article re: Browns' role, up until recently. Are you going to tell me that Sashi Brown was calling the shots on who to keep/not keep with all those other responsibilities? The guy had been a general counsel that included both football operations and business elements. Contracts were a piece of what he did and he wasn't the pulling the strings.

Again, however, he is now.

If you don't read what I write and say something that isn't there, that's not my problem. Be better prepared next time. It's also ironic to read that you feel insulted for a phrase you always use toward others.

I asked you a series of questions. Questions that I wanted answered. I did not insult you in any way. You came back w/a personal insult and ignored the question.

I answered every one of your questions. I lumped three of them into one response because you clearly didn't read my position on it and it was essentially repeating the same thing. Please do better next time.

Those were your answers? And you chide mac? LOL

Ah yes, when there is nothing left to say...

You have clearly said enough that anyone who can comprehend the written word knows exactly what you have been up to in this thread. You're not fooling anyone.

Right.

You can continue to sing that same tune towards the end of every argument you have with posters on here.

Been trolling this thread for a while waiting for mac to answer my question on whether or not the new guy that he wants us to hire would have control over the 53 man roster.

But I have to chime in here.

It has been proven over and over that only one guy was in charge of the 53 man roster last year and that one guy was not Sashi Brown. You can try to invent ways make it seem like it was so, but it isn't.

If you wan't to blame Sashi for this year's roster that is fine, but NFL contract negotiators are not NFL GM's.

I'll go back to waiting for mac now. I'm sure he will eventually get around to answering the question.

I never said Sashi was in charge of the 53 man roster, but you guys making stuff up is not going to fly w/me and anyone else w/a level head. To say that Sashi had no say in contract negotiations w/our players while he was in charge of contract negotiations is lunacy.

J/C....

Brian Windhorst was on the Really Big Show (WKNR) and delved into the discussion of the Browns and revealed that Jimmy Haslam had consulted with Sam Hinkie, former 76ers GM, who was fired for tanking to build a team. There is more to it as well discussing the Browns plan to tank.

It's a fascinating listen for anyone interested.

It's going to be very interesting to see how this experiment shakes out over the next 2 or 3 years and if Haslam has the fortitude to see it through.

Fast forward to the 19 minute mark during Windhorst's interview

Audio - Brian Windgorst: Haslam Consulted with Sam Hinkie

When did winning 1 game become an unreasonable expectation? How many 0-16 seasons before going 0-16 is not ok?

If the Browns go 0-16, Haslem should be paying season ticket holders to go to games next year.

Manziel was the last QB to win a game... pretty depressing.

I wonder if Haslam lowered ticket prices knowing that there was no chance of winning this season?

If you listen to the audio, fan reaction to the plan was one of the downfalls to Hinkie's plan in Philly and why ownership caved. Like Windy stated, it wasn't accounted for on the "spreadsheet," so to speak.

Did you listen to the audio?