DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2017 NFL Season 2017 NFL Draft It's Time to Draft a QB with our #1 Pick

Give me Myles Garrett and Malik Hooker.

If I had to pick someone? I guess EJManuel? I dont know, it wouldnt be good.

Trubisky reminds me of Tannehill and Kizer looks a lot like Flacco to me. None of them are superstars. I think the Eagles pick would be a good target for Kizet or Trubisky, if they arent overdrafted. I really like Luke Faulk too.

I'm glad you brought the Eagles pick up. If we pick in the top 15, we can still draft a QB.

Troy Smith

Not sure if serious....but why Troy Smith?

And where would you rank Watson?

Throwing the ball 70 times is impressive in and of itself.
It shows the coaching staff has supreme trust in the kid.
70 times for 580 yards thats sick.

The Mariota comp makes sense. They played in similar offenses although I would argue that Watson makes more reads in his passing game. Both have similar physical skillset and size although MM is a taller. They're both considered quiet leaders.

Both were ultra productive in college both through the air and on the ground. Watson for me is a better runner and deep ball thrower and more clutch but Mariota is more careful with the ball.

Other comps are Dak Prescott, Manziel, Derek Carr, Robert Griffin

I'm all for upgrading the QB position, but I really feel like as this season is playing out both for the Browns, and in college football, that we should probably pass on taking a QB with the likely overall number one pick...

I'm on board with a lot of others that Myles Garrett is probably the top player available. We don't get to the QB, we don't scare teams, we don't have a face on defense. This just seems like such a great match for the Browns, that it would be dumb to pass up a kid like that.

I heard some moron sports talk caller with a horrible take about how the Browns shouldn't take another QB because "that's all we do" and that we should finally start addressing the OL... I just kinda chuckled.

They've more than addressed the OL, and while that is bad, making it seem like we just keep taking QB's with high picks is kinda laughable. In the last ten years, you have taken 3 guys at the position in the first two rounds (Quinn, Weeden, Manziel). You drafted Cam Erving last year, Joel Bitonio in 2014, Mitchell Schwartz in 2012, Alex mack in 2009, and Joe Thomas in 2007.

That's 5 OL in the first two rounds the last 10 years, and you've had some success with those players, AND YOU STILL DON'T WIN.

I'm not trying to take a side between annoying "offensive line with every other pick" guy, and the guy who thinks we should take a QB every year until we find one... I'm only saying that I don't think we are in any position as a franchise to be picking and choosing our spots. This team lacks talent all over the place, and it really lacks depth to boot.

None of these quarterbacks coming out strike me as a guy you don't pass on with the top pick. They all need work. They all could probably use a year to sit. I really think they should not screw around and start taking the best player regardless of position so that this team actually has something to work with.

I'm also pleasantly surprised with the progress of Cody Kessler. For a guy who shouldn't even be playing right now, he's hanging in there. He's limited, and he's still very green, and he's not exactly burying the question of whether or not the Browns need a QB, but I would like to see more with him. I'm sick of seeing McCown out there wasting reps, and I'm done with the RG3 experiment (sucks, but he's not durable enough for the NFL).

I also believe that with the way these drafts work, some of these QB could be available in round 2, because more than half these teams aren't even wanting to waste a pick on a guy who won't play behind their already established QB.

Why the Troy Smith comp?

Similar builds, arm talent, and athleticism. (Watson is probably the slightly better version physically)

Neither deal/dealt with success and the pressure that comes with it the best.

Both had stud receivers (and RBs to keep Ds honest), and above average defenses for most of their college careers. The talent gap they benefited from doesn't exist at the next level (most of the time) and definitely not if they landed in Cleveland.

As far as slotting, they are mostly in a clump around the 3rd round. I like him and Trubisky about the same at the top of the group, but expect them to go earlier. Not really a fan of Webb, Kaaya, or Falk (I need to watch more of Falk.) Mahomes is a project, but I like his tools and he might make it to the 3rd/mid-late 2nd.

Watson is not even close to Mariota, both physically or production wise. Mariota was clearly a much more polished passer and a much faster runner. Their arm strength may be similar, but Watson doesn't have Mariota's accuracy and his running style is more power than speed.

Watson just isn't really elite at anything. His arm is somewhat live, but his accuracy is, at best, spotty. His mechanics are a trainwreck, his running ability is overstated and he isn't a physical monster like Kizer.

He's a JAG to me, and whoever drafts him is going to largely overdraft him unless he does fall further than expected.

With Trubisky and Kizer, you have physical impressiveness and accuracy with both. Trubisky is much closer to Mariota than anything I've ever seen out of Watson. Kizer, to me, has the most tools and I would probably take him pretty high. He's got it all, he just needs time to work on all these skills, something the Browns could absolutely give him. But he's also a risk, because his college tape has been...underwhelming at times, and he is still so very raw.

I think Luke Falk is the best natural thrower in the class, but he is razor skinny. His frame is good size, and he has production, but he also comes from a gimmick offense and his arm is a tad on the weak side.

None of these QBs deserve to go top 10, IMO. They all have risks. It's all about upside at the QB spot, and Watson, to me, is mostly a finished product.

Anybody know anything about this guy? Looks like great numbers from and undersized Qb.

Louisiana Tech redshirt senior QB Ryan Higgins completed 17-of-26 passes for 293 yards and four touchdowns in Saturday's 63-35 win over UTSA.

Yawn. This was Higgins' fifth game with at least four touchdown passes and his seventh with at least three touchdown passes. For the season as a whole, the 6-foot-1, 196-pound redshirt senior has thrown for 3,460 yards while turning up for a beautiful 34/4 TD/INT ratio over 10 games.

http://www.rotoworld.com/playernews/cfb/nfl-draft/?ls=roto%3acfb%3amorenewstop

If a guy (QB) is big, strong, big arm, SMART, with a little ability to move, then quit screwing around and draft him. I,m not sure what the Browns didn't like about Wentz but if we had him him we could use these picks to get some good players. Unless some genius decides to start TRADING DOWN again. Its better to have one great player than 3 or 4 below average players.

My issue with Wentz coming out was that he played in so few games. My statement was always I don't have enough information to make an evaluation I feel confident in. Some things look promising but he is not a lock to become a top 10 Qb. He certainly may but then again he may nt.

But Wentz is water under the bridge. We can't go back and draft him. The question now is: who is available is this upcoming draft that fits your criteria? (to your criteria I would add accurate and calm under pressure - both game situation pressure and pass rush pressure)

This is a bad week to have said that!

At this point it looks like Mariota is better than Winston. I wanted Mariota all along and were hoping the Titans would trade the pick.

Didn't Farmer supposedly love Mariota as well?

Just wanted to put this out there as a bit of a correction:

If someone believes that their is a franchise QB available in the draft (a QB that can be our starter for the next ten years), then I understand why someone would say we should draft that player.

I just don't happen to think that player is available in the upcoming draft.

For those wanting to draft a Qb at 1 overall, I ask for a name and justification please.

If you want to draft a Qb just for the sake of drafting a Qb then I would take at 1 overall Quarterback from Texas A&M Myles Garrett. Then I would immediately convert him to an Olb in our 3-4

my concern with garrett is his health. I've watched him a few times this year, and each time the commentators mention he hasn't been 100%.

also, he is a long strider with a little bit of an awkward movement/bend. he takes up a ton of ground with each stride, but it also can be a detriment when quick twitch is needed.

j/c:

ed asked about a NFL comparison to Deshaun Watson. I am not considering their stats, but he reminds me quite a bit of Tyrod Taylor.

Both guys have similar size, are elusive, athletic, have good arms and can throw the deep ball well.

On the other hand, both struggle at times w/accuracy, don't often throw w/anticipation, and are not quite decisive enough in the pocket.

I don't agree but....I think you underrate the difference in their athleticism Troy's best rushing year was for 611, Waton's 1100. Size their weight is the 215/ but Watson is 6'2-6'3 where Smith is 5'11-6' big difference in term's on NFL viability there.

Interesting points. I'm not sure what the handling success means, but I don't really get into the off the field stuff to subjective for my taste. Same with the surrounding talent breakdowns. I try to assess QBs based on theirskillset and as much as possible independent of their surrounding talent.



Where a QB gets drafted often has less to do with the prospect themselves but in the talent available during their draft class.

Its odd to me that you compare Watson to Troy Smith a 5th round pick? but also have him tied at the top of your QB prospect list.

Trubs is interesting but its 1 year of production, if you judge Watson off last year's performance sites like PFF had him as the top QB prospect if he was able to come out.

If Troy Smith was the size of Deshaun Watson he would have been drafted in the first round. I'm still upset that he didn't have time to shine under Harbaugh at the 49ers. He replaced Alex Smith as starter the year earlier and did a decent job. I think he would have had a resurgence under Harbaugh. But oh well.

That was a bunch formation. there are three receivers in that area. I haven't watched really any football this fall but where's he gonna look, where there's nobody? lol. Dumb criticism in that post IMO.

Steve, pause the clip off and on as it progresses and count the men as you see them. I count 10. Leads me to believe they had one WR lined up out wide on the right side that is never shown on the clip. Looks to me, if you pause the clip early you can see a DB lined up out to the right side. Maybe I'm wrong?

Yeah maybe, but the right safety isn't going to leave the three guys bunched on the short side of the field to go cover one dude if Watson looks right, and it was the nickel corner anyways... wasn't it? It's going to be a crowded area regardless of what Watson does with his eyes. Honestly if the fade is the primary read in that concept it's a horrible play IMO. The safety stayed disciplined and there wasn't much of a place to go. Maybe the innermost slant route there came open at the end but he'd already started his throwing motion and the fade would be dead had he waited a split second longer. Just a bad play design or a good zone construction to defend it.

I actually wanted the Browns to bring in Troy Smith a few times.

While I get what you are saying somewhat, I think you are under-selling Troy Smith's athleticism. The numbers aren't very indicative of his ability to run because he was in a very different offense. Tressel-ball was very reminiscent of 3 yards and a cloud of dust, and at least much more "Pro-Style." There wasn't any zone read that I can remember. Tressel did later incorporate more QB running with Pryor and Braxton, but Troy was developed as more of a pocket passer.

I'm also not sure what Watson will actually measure in at down at the combine. I'm guessing somewhere around 6'1" and 1/2. Taller than Smith, but still somewhat undersized.

I like Watson well enough, I suppose, but there are a lot of other players I like better.

I also think that those "better" players are at positions where we are worse off.

I don't really like to compare to Madden when talking real football, but I think it works here pretty well.

We could go from a 76 to a 78 (with good potential perhaps) at QB or we could go from a 67 to an 85 at safety, CB, DE, or OLB.

Honestly it's kind of hard to evaluate anyone on our offense this year as it feels like Hue is still figuring out the offense he wants to run. With the constant changes, it's hard for anyone to get comfortable in it and develop. Hue talks a lot about trying different things to get a spark or whatever, but I think he should be sticking to what he believes in and getting better at it.

I try to avoid speculation as much as possible. Could Watson measure 6'1 at the combine? Sure...but right now he's listed between 6'2 and 6'3. And I think you'll agree that even if he is 6'1 and 1/2 or whatever he's still over the QB height "mendozza" line of 6' that Troy wasn't.

The size knock for Watson doesn't fit the same way it does for Troy.

I don't disagree but its a completely different discussion though...

I was hoping to have a discussion about the actual play/skillset of the QBs. Many in this thread seem to be swayed by the prisoner of the moment sentiments lead by Dane Brugler (singling out 1 interception)/Waltersfootball claiming Watson is a 3rd round prospect.

Did you happen to read my post where I compared Watson to Tyrod Taylor?

I want to see how these guys perform at the combine, but I really would like a combo of Allen + Barnett in the first round. They are athletic and have both produced their entire careers.

#1 pick should be Garrett, hands down, no questions asked.

Andrew Luck is a number 1 pick. Look where the Colts are. You must build the team, and then insert QB.

We need to build an unstoppable, relentless defense. One that can stop the run, rush the passer, and defend the pass.

We also need to build our oline. I'd rather do that through free agency though. Get guys who have experience and that you know you can count on.

At QB, Kessler is not the long-term answer. We still have RG3 on this team, and although he is not a pocket passer, I think we should keep him and anticipate him as the Week 1 starter.

In regards to the guys coming out, although none of them have the Andrew Luck hype, I think a lot of them could be successful in the league.

There's Kizer, Watson, Trubinsky in the forefront. Then you have guys like Davis Webb, Pat Mahomes, Brad Kaaya, Luke Falk, Mason Rudolph, and Chad Kelly. It will be interesting to know if body size will eliminate a few of these guys, or will we be confident that our hopefully then revamped oline will keep them upright.

Time will tell. Whoever we end up getting.. hope it works. We've been waiting for so long. smh.

I don't think anyone can say you "must" build the team first and then get your qb.

I say that because if you build the team first, then you will obviously have a better record and drafting a top qb becomes harder.

I am not saying you "must" get the qb first, either. I simply don't agree w/your sentiment and I replied because I have been seeing several posters saying something similar to what you are.

Here is what I think:

If you don't have a qb and the guy you really like is there---you gotta take him. On the other hand, you should not take a qb you don't have a real high grade on just because you need one.

There are no "musts" or "absolutes."

Turk I agree about o-line. These kids coming out of spread offenses don't know what they're doing. I want some vets too so that there isn't a learning curve.

In Watson I trust

I've been looking for a comparison to Jake Butt and I think the best I can think of is Jason Witten. He's a guy who just constantly finds a way to get open and catches everything. Not sure if Cleveland would draft him, but he'd be a star in Detroit with Ebron. The Lions have really impressed me considering Calvin left.

my usage of "must" was not an end all be all.. no emphasis intended.

Okay. Understood.

Missed it.

I can get the comp to Tyrod, especially the deep ball accuracy.

Are there any recent college prospects that come to mind?
Mariota, Dak, Geno, Griffin, Carr all come to mind.

My comparison for Watson is Geno Smith but without the personality issues. The question then arises, how good would Geno be if he had a better personality and work ethic.

Note: this is based on outside appearances. I have no 1st had knowledge on either of their work ethics.

Agreed.

When you are this bad and devoid of talent, you take the most talented impactful player available. If the players are of near equal talent then position comes into play/ Qb over Rb etc.

Teams that skip really talented players for less talented players because of position preference are the ones the wallow in ineptitude for decades.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but I don't see how any of those guys compare to Watson. Maybe RGIII a bit because of the deep ball.

I really do see a lot of similarities w/Tyrod Taylor. The latter is a starter in this league who was a bit of a late-bloomer, so that's not a bad thing...........but drafting him top 5? I don't think so.

Then again, what do I know. I didn't think Wentz was a top 5 pick either.

and that's the problem we run into every year.

we need a QB but for some reason we feel like we don't want to overdraft a guy.

the biggest need on this team has and will remain a QB.

our O line is not very good. But you have said before that sometimes a QB can make the O line look better simply by getting rid of the ball on time.

So we know Pryor is good. but do we know how well the rest of our WR are without competent QB play? Barnidge got into the pro bowl with half ass QB play. as of right now, we aren't even getting that.

Watson has an Arm, he throws deep. is his mechanics polished? no, but there's not a whole lot of QB's who are straight out of the gate.

I get why you thought Wentz wasn't a top 5 QB. hell i didn't he was either. maybe our reasons was different, but i always thought it was gonna be rough to know what he is because he wasn't playing against top tier talent.

Well, and this is just IMO, but put Watson and Wentz in the same draft class, and i'd pull that trigger on Watson over Wentz. at least i know the guy has played in big games and has performed. when the lights come on, Watson shows up.

also, this is the other factor: we aren't the only team in the league needing a QB.

so how many times are we gonna take ourselves out of picking the cream of the crop talent, especially at that position?

San Fran
Jets

are teams that definitely need a QB.

Houston and Chicago are teams that might cut their losses and try for one in the draft.

So people aren't gonna agree with me, but i will be pissed if we either:

A. draft another position with our 1st overall, or
B. Trade down

because it will bite us in the ass like it always does.

we could've had wentz. we could've had big Ben. we could've had julio jones. We could've had Teddy.

Hell we could've had Ryan Tannehill, which as much crap as the guy gets, is still worlds better than anything we currently have on the roster.

I like Watson man. i think this guy has it. he isn't afraid to launch the ball. and having a noodle arm like Cody isn't gonna cut it in the AFC north.

so yea, if you're comparing him to Tyrod Taylor, and the scouts are comparing him to Marcus Mariota, then sign me the hell up.

Not saying I am right, little bro..........I'm just adding to the conversation.

I will say that I liked Wentz more than I like Watson. LOL.......sorry about that.