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That darn GM ......


rofl


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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His nose runs and his feet smell instead of the other way around!

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I'm not sure which political thread to put this one in, it could go in any of them really, but I'm putting it here because it has some acknowledgement of how people can see the same thing and come to different conclusions.

http://blog.dilbert.com/post/153080448451/the-cognitive-dissonance-cluster-bomb

Quote:
Earlier this week CNN.com listed 24 different theories that pundits have provided for why Trump won. And the list isn’t even complete. I’ve heard other explanations as well. What does it tell you when there are 24 different explanations for a thing?

It tells you that someone just dropped a cognitive dissonance cluster bomb on the public. Heads exploded. Cognitive dissonance set in. Weird theories came out. This is the cleanest and clearest example of cognitive dissonance you will ever see. Remember it.

This phenomenon is why a year ago I told you I was putting so much emphasis on PREDICTING the outcome of the election using the Master Persuader Filter. I told you it would be easy to fit any theory to the facts AFTER the result. And sure enough, we can fit lots of theories to the facts. At least 24 of them by CNN’s count.

Generally speaking, the greater the persuasion, the more cognitive dissonance you get. Trump is – in my opinion – the greatest persuader of my lifetime. I expected this level of cognitive dissonance. Next time you see a persuader of this magnitude, you can expect the outcome to be cognitive dissonance in that case too.

This brings me to the anti-Trump protests. The protesters look as though they are protesting Trump, but they are not. They are locked in an imaginary world and battling their own hallucinations of the future. Here’s the setup that triggered them.

1. They believe they are smart and well-informed.

2. Their good judgement told them Trump is OBVIOUSLY the next Hitler, or something similarly bad.

3. Half of the voters of the United States – including a lot of smart people – voted Trump into office anyway.

Those “facts” can’t be reconciled in the minds of the anti-Trumpers. Mentally, something has to give. That’s where cognitive dissonance comes in.

There are two ways for an anti-Trumper to interpret that reality. One option is to accept that if half the public doesn’t see Trump as a dangerous monster, perhaps he isn’t. But that would conflict with a person’s self-image as being smart and well-informed in the first place. When you violate a person’s self-image, it triggers cognitive dissonance to explain-away the discrepancy.

So how do you explain-away Trump’s election if you think you are smart and you think you are well-informed and you think Trump is OBVIOUSLY a monster?

You solve for that incongruity by hallucinating – literally – that Trump supporters KNOW Trump is a monster and they PREFER the monster. In this hallucination, the KKK is not a nutty fringe group but rather a symbol of how all Trump supporters must feel. (They don’t. Not even close.)

In a rational world it would be obvious that Trump supporters include lots of brilliant and well-informed people. That fact – as obvious as it would seem – is invisible to the folks who can’t even imagine a world in which their powers of perception could be so wrong. To reconcile their world, they have to imagine all Trump supporters as defective in some moral or cognitive way, or both.

As I often tell you, we all live in our own movies inside our heads. Humans did not evolve with the capability to understand their reality because it was not important to survival. Any illusion that keeps us alive long enough to procreate is good enough.

That’s why the protestors live in a movie in which they are fighting against a monster called Trump and you live in a movie where you got the president you wanted for the changes you prefer. Same planet, different realities.

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Well, somebody is chanting "build that wall" toward Latino kids in high school.

Somebody is fueling the alt right

And none other than white nationalist are celebrating a trump victory because they feel they are taking their country back to white america.

So you can try and spin it all you want, the fact is that while trump may not be racist, he sure as hell has motivated the racist of this country to come out of the shadows and rise up.

That can't even be debated at this point.

But the racist don't matter, right? You took your country back. So congrats.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I love the Dilbert guy because he says wrong things all the time that reminds me why he's a cartoonist instead of someone who has to write more than a paragraph to make their living.

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I'm reading this dude's Tumblr and I'm shocked that no one has ever accused him of rape. His thoughts on women are honestly shocking. At one point he states his frustration that women can control when they want to have sex. Dude's a weird guy. I'm almost afraid that I'll scroll too far and see him recreate the buffalo bill scene from silence of the lambs.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Well, somebody is chanting "build that wall" toward Latino kids in high school.

Somebody is fueling the alt right

And none other than white nationalist are celebrating a trump victory because they feel they are taking their country back to white america.

So you can try and spin it all you want, the fact is that while trump may not be racist, he sure as hell has motivated the racist of this country to come out of the shadows and rise up.

That can't even be debated at this point.

But the racist don't matter, right? You took your country back. So congrats.

You just don't get it Swish. And unfortunately, I am not going to be able to get through to you. I spent months explaining my positions on these things and if this is the crap you want to throw back at me, so be it.

I'm mostly taking a break from politics. I'll post a bit here and there but I feel completely vindicated by Trump winning the Presidency, Republicans controlling the House and Senate (and soon the Supreme Court), military and law enforcement largely backed Trump, there's some reason to believe that it was our own intelligence agencies that leaked damning information about Clinton and the DNC, etc.

If you want to reconsider your approach and work toward productive solutions, great, I'm sure I will still be willing to work with you. If you just want to throw out accusations of racism and put tens of millions of Americans under that blanket, that's your prerogative. You're still as wrong as you've ever been.

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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
I'm reading this dude's Tumblr and I'm shocked that no one has ever accused him of rape. His thoughts on women are honestly shocking. At one point he states his frustration that women can control when they want to have sex. Dude's a weird guy. I'm almost afraid that I'll scroll too far and see him recreate the buffalo bill scene from silence of the lambs.

I've never read his Tumblr.

What I do find strange is the lengths to which you are going to discredit the man, instead of addressing the above blog post. It actually does a fairly decent job of getting across the point that we all see things a bit differently. Understand that and you can understand why people, in good faith, can vote for somebody that others find unconscionable (this could be applied both ways.)

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You didn't even refute anything I said.

That says a lot about how much you don't get. Or refuse to acknowledge.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Quote:
What I do find strange is the lengths to which you are going to discredit the man, instead of addressing the above blog post.


It's the progressive way. In order to hide from issues, they try to fabricate, use straw man arguments or dig up dirt. It worked against Bernie, it blew up in their face against Trump.


And into the forest I go, to lose my mind and find my soul.
- John Muir

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Originally Posted By: Swish
You didn't even refute anything I said.

That says a lot about how much you don't get. Or refuse to acknowledge.

I think there are people out there on both sides that are acting less than honorably. I also think (know), in addition to this, there are people out there who control many social media accounts who spread some really nasty lies that have since gone viral. Figuring out which is which is a painstaking task.

As I said, I'm mostly taking a break from politics right now, and that means I don't care to get into a back and forth argument with you. You will go on forever and I have things to do tonight.

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I ain't heard no Trump supporters saying

"Blacks are stupid m-f'rs" ...

The major hillary donor that said that wasn't in HIGH SCHOOL either ...




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Originally Posted By: Swish
You didn't even refute anything I said.

That says a lot about how much you don't get. Or refuse to acknowledge.


*LOL* .. classic Swish ...

I've asked u about 100 questions and if you've answered 5 thats ALOT ..

Tell Saul I said hi ..




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Originally Posted By: jfanent
Quote:
What I do find strange is the lengths to which you are going to discredit the man, instead of addressing the above blog post.


It's the progressive way. In order to hide from issues, they try to fabricate, use straw man arguments or dig up dirt. It worked against Bernie, it blew up in their face against Trump.

It did work against Bernie, and if I were a Bernie supporter I would still be furious.

Don't forget that before the Democrats and Clinton Camp teed off on Trump, they worked to normalize him during the primaries. Swish posted something to that effect several times and he was onto something. Read: https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/796222841612042240

Then a funny thing happened... Trump won.

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PDX, I read your original post the other day and just skimmed through it just now and may have missed this, but when did you move from Cleveland to Portland? How often do you come back to visit?

Part of it is my own curiosity, part of it is trying to figure out a way to relate a few things as Cleveland has definitely changed over the years.

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I don't know who Saul is.

And I don't care to answer much of anything to you.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Yes, because I believe in what I believe.

To stop would be...well to back track like your boy is already doing.

You've said over and over you don't have to go back and forth.

Yet you keep doing it.


Last edited by Swish; 11/12/16 05:23 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Haus
Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
I'm reading this dude's Tumblr and I'm shocked that no one has ever accused him of rape. His thoughts on women are honestly shocking. At one point he states his frustration that women can control when they want to have sex. Dude's a weird guy. I'm almost afraid that I'll scroll too far and see him recreate the buffalo bill scene from silence of the lambs.

I've never read his Tumblr.

What I do find strange is the lengths to which you are going to discredit the man, instead of addressing the above blog post. It actually does a fairly decent job of getting across the point that we all see things a bit differently. Understand that and you can understand why people, in good faith, can vote for somebody that others find unconscionable (this could be applied both ways.)


His tumblr is his blog. He runs his blog off the tumblr platform. That thing you link, is his tumblr. You read his tumblr.

What's there to discredit? The dude is living in a fantasy world and he'll never read my post. So who cares if I dissect every little piece of misinformation? I know that Dilbert guy has created multiple fake forum accounts to defend his ideas online. But I don't think he's on this forum. Quite frankly he's full of cognitive dissonance and is unreachable as he lives in fantasy land. But since you seem to want a wake up call here it is.


First, Trump did not win "half of the voters". With a record low turnout for this century, and Trump losing the majority of those who did vote means he did not win "half the voters."

Secondly, people who voted for Trump didn't do so because they thought he wasn't evil. A quick look at exit poll data can tell you that. However, if you are living in your own fantasy world, it's best to avoid data which is why Dilbert avoids them like the plague.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-...2016-exit-poll/

Quote:
10. Trump's personal image was and is horrible
Trump's victory should be in no way interpreted as a vote of confidence in him or his capacity to do the job. Less than 4 in 10 voters (38 percent) had a favorable opinion of him. Only 1 in 3 said he was “honest and trustworthy.” Thirty-eight percent said he was “qualified” to be president. Thirty-five percent said he has the “temperament to serve effectively as president.”

How can a candidate win with numbers like these? Because the desire for change was so great that it overrode all of the doubts — or at least many of the doubts — people had about Trump.


So 6/10 voters viewed him as unfavorable, which far off from "Hitler" level, but not exactly a glowing commendation. But either way his "option one" is incorrect. But again, he doesn't care because he's living in his fantasy world.

Thirdly, I didn't respond to it because it wasn't addressed to me. I know why HRC lost and Trump won and it wasn't because the people in the midwest hate black people, women or muslims, but because Trump represented them better. HRC wanted to represent America globally, while Donald Trump would represent Americans in America. Not in the UN.

Don't take me exposing Dilbert guy's rape fantasies as a strawman, hiding the issues or changing the subject. Take it as me being fascinated with a guy who loves his own fantasy so much that he went berserk. This was the logic he used, while under an anonymous name, to strike back at critics who would dare insult the great Dilbert guy.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
I don't know who Saul is.

And I don't care to answer much of anything to you.


Ya u do ... he's one of your hero's ... DEFLECT, change the subject, CALL THEM RACIST ...

The reason u don't care to answer is cause u CAN'T ... you'd have to ADMIT THINGS u don't want to ...

Like i said Swish ... it wasn't a Trump supporter that said ...

"Blacks are stupid mfer's" ...

That was your PEEPS ...

U don't want to answer my questions for the same reason u call Trump supporters racist using HIGH SCHOOL KIDS but won't adress that comment ...

GEE I WONDER WHY ...




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Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
Nobody had answered the question on how a guy who WILLINGLY shipped his jobs to china is gonna somehow force companies to bring their jobs back to America.


If anyone knows how, its him ... just like with the tax code ... he knows why he did it and therefore he knows how to fix it ...


Only one problem Diam. Do you honestly believe that Trump ever does his own taxes? Of course he doesn't. He hires people to do his taxes. That doesn't give me any confidence he knows Jack about the tax code.

And yes, with Chinese steel and some illegal immigrants thrown in for good measure, he's done a lot of building. Every "product" he makes is outsourced overseas. That's what he "knows about".


Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.

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So I'm deflecting by tell you I don't know who Saul is, when I don't know who Saul is?

Blacks and whites as a whole might not be stupid. But you as an individual is certainly questionable.

So explain to me who Saul is.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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I just did a google search.

According to the Bible, Saul was the first king in the United Kingdom of Israel and Judah.

How in the hell do you expect me to know that?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Author of the Rules for Radicals.


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Thanks for the clarification on the blog that I link to being his Tumblr. For some reason I was thinking it was something else. Cut me some slack-- I used to be a WordPress guy smile

Here's what I think about Scott Adams:

- The Dilbert cartoon is hilarious
- He comes up with some unique angles in politics and conveys them in a way that resonates with me. I don't agree with everything he writes, but I agree with a lot of it.

I don't really know a whole lot else about the guy or his views. I just post his stuff because I think his takes are so much better than the garbage that mainstream media usually puts out. That's pretty much it.

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Thanks.

Rules for radicals.

Based on the title, now I understand why Diam sounds like one.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Thanks.

Rules for radicals.

Based on the title, now I understand why Diam sounds like one.


*L* ... ya .. i'm real radical ... i'm stupid, deplorable and at least 4 or 5 other disparaging adjectives you've used to describe me .. witch is fine by me .. i look at the source and it amuses me ... I'm also not a HOUSE OF CARDS ...

U can pretend you don't know who Saul is ... we know that u know that we know that u know who he is .. *L* ...




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Uh, ok.

*L*


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Trumpophobe!

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You need to come up with something better.

For having a victory, I expected a lot better insults than this. This one is weak.

Like your boys economic policy.


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Black Trumpophobe!

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: DiamDawg
Originally Posted By: Swish
Nobody had answered the question on how a guy who WILLINGLY shipped his jobs to china is gonna somehow force companies to bring their jobs back to America.


If anyone knows how, its him ... just like with the tax code ... he knows why he did it and therefore he knows how to fix it ...


Only one problem Diam. Do you honestly believe that Trump ever does his own taxes? Of course he doesn't. He hires people to do his taxes. That doesn't give me any confidence he knows Jack about the tax code.

And yes, with Chinese steel and some illegal immigrants thrown in for good measure, he's done a lot of building. Every "product" he makes is outsourced overseas. That's what he "knows about".


U got me there Pit .. he prolly knows nothing about the tax code .. NOTHING ... its not like he cares about his money or anything ... rolleyes

PS. I don't do my taxes but i know QUITE A BIT about the tax code ... cause i care about my money ... I'm also not a financial adviser or stock broker but know quite a bit about the market ...
I'm not a chef but i am a hell of a cook .... the list is endless ...

but I'm a radical idiot .. just ask Swish ... *L* ...




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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Black Trumpophobe!


Sigh....


Anyway,

PDX, you the people in Europe holding an anti trump rally? It's going down in Berlin right now.


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Originally Posted By: Haus
PDX, I read your original post the other day and just skimmed through it just now and may have missed this, but when did you move from Cleveland to Portland? How often do you come back to visit?

Part of it is my own curiosity, part of it is trying to figure out a way to relate a few things as Cleveland has definitely changed over the years.


I left Ohio for good in 1989. Art college beckoned. I was in Columbus for a couple years then Kansas City and then New York. I met my now wife who was working in the States for a summer gig and I eventually made the move to London where I lived & worked for 14 years. I have lived in Portland since 2007, when we returned to the States from the UK.

My folks left Cleveland to be near my sister but, when she passed away they moved to Oregon to be near us. So, I no longer have any family ties in Cleveland. A few high school friends I am in touch with here and there via Facebook etc. but, nothing that brings me back on a regular basis. I was last there in Dec. 2014 when I took my son to see the Browns v Colts game.

I know it has changed a lot since I was living there...all cities change in that timeframe. Hell, Portland has changed dramatically since 2007. It is almost unrecognizable due to gentrification and huge amounts of people moving here because of some crap tv show or a perceived sense of "hip utopia". That part of Portland gets tiresome real quick.

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Originally Posted By: Swish


PDX, you the people in Europe holding an anti trump rally? It's going down in Berlin right now.


I saw that. I also saw Portland made the BBC news for the riots here. Was the rally in Berlin put together by Germans or American ex-Pats?

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It looks like both.

Also, one of my boys said a couple of soldiers just got in trouble because they were there at the rally protesting as well.

Not a good look.


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American SOLDERS ??

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yea. Couple of NCO's who just got back from Afghanistan a few months ago.





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Just so everyone is aware, military personnel are allowed to go to rally's and such as long as it isn't in uniform.

The rules are a tad bit different overseas though. They don't like us going to rallies becsuse soldiers tend to be a high risk target for certain groups.

These guys biggest problem is called a mileage pass. Basically, there's a 250 mile radius soldiers are allowed to travel off duty.

But anything outside of the 250, you have to put in what's called a mileage pass, and typically you can only do that on 3-4 day weekends.

They didn't do that. There was a recall formation, random drug test( they always pull that crap on 4 day weekends) and people started wondering why they didn't show up like everyone else.

So they broke an unwritten rule, and then a real rule. Not a good look.

Last edited by Swish; 11/12/16 08:42 PM.

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I think the problem is too many people want all states to be exactly the same like their way is the ONLY way. I think its best to let most states do things the way they want and then let those cultures that mesh gravitate towards each other and just let people have the freedom to enjoy having their local city they way they want it. I get so tired of the culture wars from a small group moving into a much larger center of culture and demanding that all of them change and/or accept the invasion into their culture instead of that smaller group trying to fit in with the local culture. To me it's just political bullying.

I mean to me if you don't like the local culture then you should move to a place that suits you better instead of being a drag to everyone else. It's a big country with people from all over the world. I'm sure there is a niche for everyone to enjoy without ruining it for everyone else.


You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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PDX,

Outstanding thread Dawg. I have tons of respect for you. Not many people take an introspective look and challenge their own viewpoint, but fewer still take a step back and take an objective look at how they treat others. I tip my cap to you sir!

When I went in to the voting booth I wasn't sure I was going to vote for him. I actually considered writing in Deez Nutz (He actually was polling at 9% in NC during the primaries... in the end I wrote him in for county school board). Ultimately I did fill in the bubble for him and honestly I wasn't holding my nose like I had the several weeks prior when I thought about it.

See, I came to the conclusion that candidate Trump ran as a caricature of himself. My investigative mind couldn't reconcile how a doofus flaming a-hole could manage to build a billion dollar empire. So I began to look for inconsistencies and contradictions in him and particularly the people around him. When you look at the people Trump has surrounded himself with, in business and family, they are ALL very disciplined. In their manner, their posture. I saw it years ago when some of the original Apprentice winners (pre-Celebrity). They were night and day different than when they were on the show. They showed that same, quiet, disciplined demeanor. There is no way that Trump could have those kinds of people around him if he wasn't that way himself.

My gut tells me that he will run the White House much differently than many of us have seen in our life times. I think it will be much more business, no BS oriented.

Social issues won't play as a big a role as they did with Obama. Social justice warriors won't like it, but neither will those who want him to oppose/promote agendas based on religious belief. If it doesn't have anything to do with the economy or security, I think he'll spend as little time on it as possible.

What's unique about Trump is that his bully pulpit bullies both parties. On one hand his election is a 100% repudiation of the years in which the liberal media, politicians, and neighbors have treated the common working man (and woman) like poop. On the other, it was also a repudiation of the GOP as the party has not been representing their constituents as promised.

I tried telling some of you guys this before the election about the GOP but all I got was the usual racism, bigotry, etc line.

If the GOP establishment don't start putting the party principles in practice, limited gov't, fiscal responsibility, etc.... many will be booted out in the midterms. Some here are speculating that the Dems would make gains, but I think it more likely we'd see a resurgence of the Tea Party who would find a valuable ally in Trump should he make headway on his campaign promises.

The Dems are going to have an uphill battle getting back the support they lost. More socialism (i.e. anti-Americanism) in the platform won't work. Neither will a continued false narrative social issues like police brutality or forcing people to believe that grown men getting naked in front of their daughters is "normal". They are going to have to figure out a message they can take to Joe Plumber that doesn't take what he's earned and "spread it around" and they have to have something other than programs that ultimately make them dependent on the gov't.

I think I'm starting to stretch my time on the soapbox lol.

In your OP you said that now you were listening. PDX, that's all these people ever really wanted in the first place.


"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton

-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
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