DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Harvard Boys, Hue, and QBs

I got Sunday Ticket because I put DirecTV at my mom's house, and put it in my name. I can watch games online. This year it is free. Next year I probably will not have it. (unless they give it to me for free when I re-up my service)

Anyway, you don't want anyone to debate your ideas, you want to dictate what they should say. That's not how a discussion board works, and you should realize that since you have been on one for a very long time. I will stop responding to this thread after this post, though, as I see how it upsets you when people challenge your opinions, on your own thread.

Just a suggestion. In the future, if you want to only have people who agree with you in a thread, and to be allowed to go "off thread", while restricting anyone else doing so, then maybe private thread would be more appropriate.

Have a nice evening.

I have no problem w/those who have disagreed w/me. I have read some of those posts and not responded to them because they raised good points. That was the intent. To discuss. To see both sides.

My problem w/you is that I think you are full of crap. I think you do not watch the games. I think you are deflecting attention away from the original question and trying way too hard to divert the focus to something that was secondary and not primary.

I asked you in a PM to stop trying to hijack my thread. If you wanna just talk about Wentz, start your own damn thread.

Btw..............you and guys like Dep are winning. We are NOT discussing the FO and Hue's ability to evaluate QB talent. We are making it personal.

Congrats. Your God is proud of you.

Sorry but if you want to discuss the FO's ability to judge QB talent, discussing Wentz is 100% relevant because the #1 thing that is used as "evidence" that the FO can't judge talent is passing on Wentz.

It appears statistically that there isn't a whole lot to separate the two. So the question now is, had we drafted Wentz and he had this level of production here, would he be viewed as "the guy"? If so, one cannot then claim the FO is inept in QB evaluation because they were able to get a guy in a later round to do the same thing.

+1 to the FO.

But if that level of production would not make anyone view Wentz as "the guy", well then the FO did good by not wasting a #2 pick on him.

+1 to the FO.

Now if you want to talk about HUE's ability specifically... well, regardless of what people think in terms of how Cody's NFL career pans out, the general consensus had been that he had been playing above most people's expectation. That being Hue's MO, I think you'd have to credit him with that.

As to McCown, either he's an old dog that can't learn new tricks, or maybe Hue just doesn't see the value in trying to get more out of him at this point.

RG3 was a low cost investment that had solid reasoning behind it. But he has to play more to see if Hue can get more out of him.

Let's get this straight.

I never said NOT to discuss Wentz. I said to not discuss him exclusively.

And I got more news for you...........Wentz is a good qb that would have been a good pick for us and helped us on our journey. Guys like you, Dep, and YTown can bad-mouth him all you like, but I guarantee you that almost ALL NFL guys would prefer him over Cody and RGIII. They would prefer him over Coleman.

The Eagles are 5 and 5 and we are 0 and 11. But, before the season........I was chastised on here for saying that the Eagles were not worse than the Browns and one guy even made a bet w/me no it. Where was your big mouth then?

Good grief Charlie Brown. Get over yourself.

j/c

Wentz does NOT put the fear in ANY D by driving the ball down the field. I'm not saying that he CAN'T, but he DOES NOT at this point. Saying differently at this point is simply stubborn, agenda posting.

Wow. There are two great back-to-back posts that have added to the conversation.

It's always the same people who ruin conversations on this board.

You don't just watch, you my friend are an expert!

A Liberty Mutual Insurance commercial came on and you yelled to your wife "Look they're running the statue of liberty play".

When Weeden got tackled by the American Flag you tried to draft it for your fantasy team.

When someone yells "Get the Quarterback!" you think "Stop worrying, it's only 25 cents."

You are the Vince Lombardi of Dawgtalkers and Mac is the "king of all media"

J/c w/ a quick comment on Wentz-Kessler.

A comparison of production is not the same thing as a comparison of physical skillset.

Kessler's production is on par with Wentz.

But no one is saying they are equal prospects because they're production is similar.

However it is fair to say that Wentz superior skillset and surrounding talent should lend to a more discernible difference in production.

I asked this question earlier. I've been thinking about it as more information has become available.

I'm at the point that I don't have very much confidence at all in Hue and the FO to find the right qb.

Think about it:

--they preferred Goff over Wentz. Things can change, but Goff looks horrible. He turns the ball over, misses easy throws, and is always rattled.

--they thought that RGIII could be the long-term answer. I don't know about you, but RGIII looks like a sandlot qb to me, not a franchise qb.

--they preferred Cody over guys like Dak.

I am really starting to worry about their poor evaluations of quarterbacks being so terrible that they will actually like Watson and draft him w/the first pick. In my opinion, that would be an epic mistake. But, he does seem like the type of qb they would like.

God help us.........

I've seen nothing of this FO that proves they can be the ones to turn the program around, just look at this FA/draft...they have 1 guy out of all our picks that is marginally productive in ogbah, and we're going to trust them with the QB/BPA quandry....god help us

Not sure what the reason why was, but RG3 was noticeably less accurate this week. I don't buy the rust excuse. You can see if he's rusty in practice.

I said it a month ago, i'll say it now...its time for the Browns to move on....they need to clean house and get rid of everyone...Sashi, Jackson, Depodesta, even the maintenance guy...get rid of everyone....they should have done this weeks ago.....this just isn't working out, and its not going to.

ticket prices are down to $1...1 flippin dollar...only someone who is daft continues down this course....

LOL...........that wasn't my intent.

I don't want anyone fired. I'm just worried about the qb evaluation.

I'm not too upset about us passing on Dak. You can't replace Manziel with a QB who just got a DUI. What does it say?

Taking a two minute cursory look at his background is to much to ask? ...

Manziel's actions in college were a HUGE RED FLAG ... what happend to him was right there in front of u if u didn't want to IGNORE IT ... witch we did ...

He lived the hollywood, party lifestyle for 2 years in college and then he turned it up a notch after dropping out of school when the football season ended ....

Dak on the other hand stood in school to get his masters .. everyone around him said what happend to him was a FLUKE and OUT OF CHARACTER ...

MAYBE just MAYBE ... u oughta do a little more digging ... NAY ... lets just WRITE HIM OFF ...

Sorry man ... I've NEVER blasted this FO and/or Hue for that one ... and i never will cause it happens .. u miss on QB's .. IT HAPPENS ...

BUT to write it off simply because of one DUI .. thats DANGEROUS and STUPID ... there ain't many choir boys left in this league ... u best know how to do YOUR DUE DILLIGENCE ... and u sure as all hell shouldn't write someone off for having ONE DUI ...

There's a big difference between MAKING A MISTAKE and a PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR!!!!!

I didn't realize that I only talked about Dak. I could have sworn I mentioned RGIII, Wentz, and Goff in addition to Cody not being a very good pick.

Silly me.

I'm sorry. I didn't realize I had to comment on every asinine point in a post to have discussions on here. Silly me. Let me entertain you.



They're all rookies, give it time. Goff has less talent around him than Wentz and Wentz has less talent around him than Dak. I'm sure that has something to do with how all the rookies are playing. Besides it's not like Wentz has been winning games as of late.

RGIII is a rookie?

RG3 was signed with a hope and a prayer that he could reclaim his form. Does his contact look like the FO thought he would be a franchise QB? How much more is he paid than McCown?

Look man...........I have questions about the Brown's ability to evaluate QBs based on the sum of their evaluations in the short period they have been here.

It's fine if you don't agree. But please do not try to limit the conversation to one point.

Again, I formulated my opinion based on the sum of their moves rather than one isolated move.

I will add that it is very early and my opinion can change depending on what they do as they move forward. But for now, I don't think my questioning of their QB evaluations is unwarranted.

No one is saying your questioning of their evaluations is unwarranted tho.

However, I would say you're certainly isolating all of these moves. You think RG3 is a bad pick up, but compared to who? Tom Brady and Aaron Rodgers weren't free agents this year. Glock Osweiler, Ryan Fitzpatrick, and Chase Daniels were. So RG3 + contact are worse than them? Ha.

You're good at changing the point of conversation. Too good.

Have a "good" one.

Sorry for trying to have a football conversation with you that takes into account our situations and possible different scenarios. But I guess that's what I get for trying to talk football with a bully.

However, they just ended the Johnny Manziel debacle, and there was no way they were going to go after another QB who had similar potential problems.

A big part of the problem for our young guys is the plethora of young guys around them. Right now we have, active, 11 guys with more than 4 years experience in the NFL. One of these is Josh McCown, who isn't playing, and another is our Punter. We have Joe Thomas, who is a Hall of Fame player, Barnidge, who had a great year last year, and Joe Haden, who has had ups and downs the past few years. The rest are Tramon Williams, Hawkins, Paea, Carder, DeMario Davis, and RG3.

RG3 has been out most of the year. Most of the others have had minimal impact on the field. Some of these guys could be useful, if the team had experienced, plus level talent around them. Only Joe Thomas and John Greco are guys who could be built around, and who could lead above average units.

I hope that we go out and try to sdd a couple of upper level free agents this coming off-season. We have tons of cap room, and we can also add 4-5 players who should have a strong impact, considering we have 5 of the top 65 or so players in the coming draft. We need to find guys who can dominate. If we keep Pryor and Collins, and add 2-3 upper level free agents, along with 5 upper level players in the draft, (and we also have a bunch of picks after our 3rd rounder)well, then we have the possibility of turning things around. I would even be OK with trading our lower 2nd round pick for a guy like Garoppolo, provided we could sign him to an extension. I have read that the Pats really like Brissett as their backup going forward, so this kind of trade might be possible.

With the right moves, we could improve a great deal. I'm not saying that we would be a playoff team next year, but we could be significantly improved.

AGAIN ... there's a big difference between a MISTAKE and a PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR ..

I don't want any high priced FA's this year ... u always WAY OVERPAY and my gut tells me they don't usually work out well .. .that'd be sumptin good for the STAT BOYS ... how Have the top 5 FA's over the last 5 years worked out for their new teams ..

That would be interesting .. i am more interested in the 2nd and 3rd level guys for this year ...

Satan just got home from school .. i gotta go .... for a bit .. *L*

Looking at their QB choices now, using hindsight, isn't very fair. I think the FO basically took a pass on QB this season. With the guys that were available, and what they looked like at the time, I don't blame them for this approach. I also think it was smart to take a low-risk shot on RG3. We can pick apart the Cody vs Dak decision, but I think that had more to do with the (inaccurate) character concerns during the draft. After the Manziel/Gilbert debacle, I don't think they wanted any whiff of that. I don't agree with it, but I understand it.

I think an issue with the team that's almost as bad as the lack of talent is the lack of winning attitude. They are bringing in a lot of guys with the right attitude.

I agree with this, however, Manziel was such a complete debacle that they almost certainly wanted no part of even a potential problem of the same type.

Saying that we made a mistake by not taking Prescott is like saying we made a mistake when we passed on Brady. (as did many other teams)

Also, and this is vitally important, the 'Boys have the best OL in the NFL, the best RB in the NFL, veteran receivers in guys like Bryant, Whiten, Beasley, and Williams .... guys who have developed in their system over several years ...... and a defense that only gives up only 18 PPG, which is 5th best in the NFL. They also have stability in their coaching, and overall program. In Cleveland, he would have had none of these things.

Prescott was the right player, to the right team, with the right system, at the right time. The Cowboys didn't bring him in to be the starter, but when Romo couldn't go, Prescott grabbed the job and ran with it. Would he have been able to do that here? Well, that is the question.

Do we know how the Browns graded his QB ability? Is the sole reason they didn't draft him because of the DUI? I thought I read or heard that his accuracy was an issue in college.

Right. The cowboys would never take a chance on a low character kind of guy.

Dak was drafted in the 4th round.

134 players were taken before him.

The Cowboys tried to trade up twice to select other QBs.

They also considered trading for veteran backups.

This was not their plan, they got lucky.

Where did I mention the Cowboys?

I talked about Cody over Dak, but I also brought up their evaluation of RGIII. Additionally, I brought up how they had Goff ranked higher than Wentz.

Those are three separate sources of information. I have no problem w/anyone disagreeing, but why are so many getting an attitude about this?

Didn't virtually every team have Goff rated over Wentz?

Does philly still pick Wentz if They have the #1 overall?

I haven't heard that one. Where did you hear that?

just speculation mixed with reporting:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...over-jared-goff

and there are tons of articles about it as well.

I thought most people had Goff over Wentz. Teams, analyst, media, fans.

so my point is they wanted the best prospect, and felt Wentz wasn't gonna be great so they passed on him. it happens. The Rams also thought Goff was better than Wentz. things like this happen.

Every team probably had blake bortles ranked over Derek Carr, and look how that's turning out.

Don't forget about the reported trade rumor and/or interest in Kaepernick. That'll make you queasy.

A quote from Hue's confidant:

On Friday, NFL.com's Michael Silver wrote that the 49ers and Browns "are in general agreement regarding the draft-pick compensation that it would take to acquire Kaepernick," though there was no guarantee a deal is imminent.

I believe Sashi later attempted to discredit the rumor.

Link

Hmmmmm..........I thought most people were surprised that the Rams liked Goff over Wentz. Not sure about that, though.