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Much better, more polished.

He's the best EDGE defender to come out in probably a decade.

D'onta Foreman of Texas had 2028 yards rushing. If his team didn't suck, he could have easily cracked top 10 all time in a bowl game. Dude is worth looking at to say the least.

I don't know ... he took down that one fan after the game pretty easily

That's more than our LB's could do ... and he's a DB

Our LB's are our only bright spot on this defense.

lol which exacerbates my point

Peppers is pretty good. I think he gets a big knack for not being asked to do the things we want to see him do. Specifically coverage. But he plays in the Big 10 where "run" doesn't mean, just go up to the LOS real quick before the next pass play. We're still a conference based on the run, and Peppers has done a good job. He cannot cover right now, but there's not one part of me, watching him field kicks, play offense, etc., that makes me believe that he can't cover. He's just too dang electric and agile. I honestly think he'd be a steal with our 2nd first round pick. I see him as the third best safety and I'll be shocked if Hooker and Adams aren't picked within the top 10 each.

I checked by Goggling Jalen Tabor and it came up as T e e z Tabor..

Take out the spaces. I guess I don't see the problem

yeah very strange haha

It means arse in Arabic.

Yeah, I think we've answered that about 3 times now. I guess they didn't bother reading. LOL

I think the real problem is that we don't adhere to sharia law in this country so our collective arabic needs work.

نقطة جيدة


Or, nuqtat jayida, if you will.

Oh, for goodness sakes........they turned my Arabic into numbers. LOL

If you don't want to discuss that aspect then don't. But I don't see the point of your butting into a discussion Grimm and I were having if you don't care about it...*shrugs*.

ed, we can discuss it.........but, that one aspect doesn't make a player a better true FS than another.

Wait......you edited that.

Butting in? You asked a question about Hooker. Heck, I think I was the first one to answer you. How in the hell is that butting in?

Put your big boy underwear on, ed.

I've seen Hooker put his nose in a guy's chest before. It is only his 5th year playing football. Some things take more time to develop, but the foundation is there.

I'm surprised; I thought the answer to which is the more physical player would be easily agreed upon.

I don't think physicality/aggression in tackling is dependent on where a S lines up. I'm talking about an attitude/approach to tackling that comes across when you see a player tackle.
You know how some players seem to welcome/relish tackling? That's what I'm talking about when it comes to physicality/aggression not whether or not they play in the box.

I'm gonna give it a view tonight.


I try to avoid relying too much on 'draft experts' opinions but since you mention DJ:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...favorite-player


A discussion of what we think the D needs could go on forever. And I'm not saying that the team 'needs' a big hitter either. I am saying that for me Adams is the best S in the draft. Size, speed, range, ball skills, versatility etc. Part of the reason I have Adams ahead of Hooker is physicality/aggression.

I always pull my big boy pants all the way up to my chest. You got yours on?

C'mon bro, after we had our discussion Grimm and I were having another very specific discussion to which you responded by panning the very topic of our discussion:

To be clear and maybe this got lost in the translation somehow but am I not saying that one aspect alone makes Adams a better true FS.

We had exchanged a few posts by that point.

Here is my bottom line:

Adams will probably be drafted ahead of Hooker.

However, if we are looking for a true FS, than Hooker is the better prospect. He has great range, superior leaping ability, tremendous hands, good instincts, is a good tackler, and is an awesome athlete.

Adams is bigger and stronger. I do not see him as a FS. I see him as a SS that can be moved around a lot, similar to guys like Mattheau and maybe even Polamalu.

Yes, Adams is a bigger hitter. However, Hooker's superior athleticism and range makes him a better FS prospect.

I'll give a quick summary of my views right now, which for me is a bit early but...

I think Adams and Hooker are close athletically.

Admittedly Hooker has played more true center field single post FS. In that aspect there isn't a projection to make where Hooker will play FS/SS. He will be a FS.

But Adams despite not playing near as much centerfield FS has made the type of plays in deep coverage that project to FS.

I think if Adams and Hooker swapped teams/roles that Adams would be thought of as being every bit the FS as Hooker. And Adams is not only a better tackler but brings that extra physicality.

My NFL comps for Adams are Eric Reid, Eric Berry, Sean Taylor

Hooker said he is staying in school.

Good for me as a Bucks fan ... bad for me as a Browns fan (what else is new)

Like most things regarding the draft, let's wait until the season is over.

Just watched it. You want to discuss it? Maybe there should be a thread on just S/DB prospects w/ game cut-ups and plays discussed? Anyhow let me know I wrote down some plays(w/timestamps) that stood out to me.

ed, do you think watching a couple of cut-ups is better than watching every game a guy has played in college?

Sometimes, you might want to sit back and accept education.

But he said "100%."

if he didn't put that 100% emoji 3 times then his word doesn't matter to me.

Nope. Do you think watching every game makes a player into something they're not?

Sometimes you might want accept that other posters can also make accurate assessments and evaluations. And you might also want to accept that disagreement will happen on message board the same way tgey would in a meeting room or draft war room. And its really annoying when you post your opinion as fact.

Since he appears to be going back to school, It might be better off to leave it for next year.

Adams does appear to be the more consistently physical safety (I have noticed some plays where he shies away a bit), but I feel like Hooker at the least flashed that ability to play physical in the Wisconsin game.

One thing to keep in mind is that Jamal Adams is in his second year as a full time starter and played in 13 games (2 as a starter) as an All-SEC freshman before that. Hooker is in his first season of meaningful action and as a starter (he did play some special teams last year.) He played 2 years of CB and WR in high school, so I was encouraged by the physicality, the ball skills seem to have translated. As a Redskin fan, you seem to think more Sean Taylor as the prototype while as Browns fans we think more Ed Reed.

The draft is as much about what they will be as what they are now. I give Hooker the edge in future trajectory, but that could be a little bit of scarlet and grey colored glasses and he could plateau. As it looks like Hooker will go back to school, this debate could be moot.

I didn't post anything as fact.

You asked a question about Hooker. I answered because I have watched every game he played. You watched a couple of cut-ups and made some statements that were not true. I corrected you and you got upset.

Lol, okay I didn't know that I was upset.

What statements did you think were untrue?

If you want to discuss the Wisc tape these plays stood out to me:

:23s
:42s
2:00
2:54
3:40
3:56
4:20
5:28
5:40
5:58

1. A lot of SS's transition to FS once they leave college.

2. Hooker is not a good tackler.

He's young and doesn't always take the best angles, but he's in space more than tight quarters most of the time.

Some of the plays you mention I think are avoiding friendly fire and not getting targeting/late hits. Some is he just needs to grow into the role.

What about:
:35
1:45
3:45
3:56
4:18
5:23
6:01

He seems to demonstrate the necessary physicality in those.

What seems to get lost sometimes in those questionable angles is the amount of ground he covered to get there in the first place.

He's a work in progress. But he's a freakish playmaker and I think that translates well to the pros.

How would you compare that tape to Jamal Adams against Alabama (2015) ? (His second year of PT) He seems to want no part of the RBs at times.

They seem pretty similar, but I think Hooker covers a lot more ground and at least "gets in the picture" on a lot more plays.

Adams is the more mature/battle-tested player at this point.

LSU's 2016 tape is pretty fun to watch on D. Aggressive and lots of athletes. I wonder where Thomas (CB) ends up going in the draft. He flashes as a nickel-blitzer.

Maybe all those could be factors, but I think you can see what I was talking about before?

I'm not sure if you looked at all the time stamps but they all weren't negative plays or question mark plays. Some of the plays you mention in your list I already earmarked to look at in my list of plays that stood out.

The play he made at 3:56s are the types of tackles I want to see him make more often. The play at 4:20s was another nice play coming from 1/2 field safety, avoiding a blocker and making a nice stop on their TE?. 5:58 was also another good one, would like to see him raise his target area up on 4:20&5:58 but I like his aggression on those.

:35-2nd man in assist #17 made initial contact
1:45-2nd man in assist #35 gives the RB a belly to belly suplex Hooker came in after
3:45-2nd man in assist #2 comes off a block to make initial contact
3:56-see above
4:18-see above play 4:20s
5:23-nice solo tackle, meant to add this one earlier, would like to see him drive through that tackle and not stop his legs but this wa
6:01-see above 5:58s

You know I try to stay away from the prediction stuff, but Hooker certainly is a ballhawk and made a ton plays on the ball in coverage.


I'll take a look. But, just to be fair we're comparing the players right now.

I think the difference in the ground they cover is more a result of how their teams use them then a difference in their skillset.



Yeah, there are some other interesting DB prospects after Adams and Hooker. You watched any of the A&M Safety?

I've caught some of Evans while watching A&M games "live" trying to follow Myles Garrett. Haven't really focused on the back end. My initial impression is he's a solid player, but might be a little over-hyped. He's made plays, but some seem to be he was in the right place at the right time more than him making a great play. Not that it's a bad thing to be in that right place, but I'll have to dig in more to get a better feel for him.

As far as the prediction comment, to me that is what the draft is. You have to try to find the right balance of what they are now and what they will be.

I don't watch enough live college football to know which players are hyped or not. So I just kinda take players from what I see.

I think the prediction aspect of the draft is pure mythology, pure fantasy. It is impossible to predict how a player will react to all manner of the non-football changes that will happen. Being on there own, having money, not having coaches over their shoulders, change in living environment, different coaching styles, different systems, different locker room, etc..etc...There simply to many variable completely external to the actual prospect that play huge roles in the their success and failure. If prediction was possible the hit rate would be much higher then the current 50/50ish crap shoot even in the 1st round.

I think there is plenty of work that can be done making accurate evaluations and assessments and ranking without ever delving into the prediction business.