DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum RE: The Front Office....continued...

Andrew Berry is here and he's got experience.....

so what does the analetics that the Harvard Boys created explain the 0-13 start?

Outlier year? They may want to throw this year out of their data set!

The first year of a rebuild is always tough. It was even tougher for us because we cut a few guys that although they weren't worth what they were getting paid, would probably have netted us a few wins. We did this because they weren't in the long term plans and we could give some younger guys more playing time.

We go into next year with the first overall pick, two drafts worth of picks, and plenty of money to spend in FA. The average age of the roster is 25.7 yrs and with another draft it will get even younger.

It is very easy to criticize during the time of short term pain that is needed for long term success.

It is more difficult to keep optimism during the tough times with a vision of the long term goals.

I have seen new, younger building blocks emerge on this team. Terrelle Pryor, Jamie Collins, Jonathon Cooper, Austin Reiter, Danny Shelton, Jamar Taylor, Christian Kirksey, Jonathon Ogbah, Carl Nassib, and Corey Coleman. All are showing that they have what it takes to build around.

Whining and moaning to yourself is expected. It hurts. We know. You aren't getting any younger. Whining and moaning for a solid year to the rest of us without a break is just annoying.

I don't want to blow it up.
I don't want to tweak it.
I'm grown up enough to take short term pain for long term gain.
I'll wait to see if it works before I grab one of the pitchforks that you are handing out.

I'm boring like that. I like to wait and see how things play out before I run the new guys out of town.

Also, I'm kind of excited that we are going to be adding some free agents and 5 draft picks in the top 65 to the names that I mentioned above.

Again, I put up with the short term pain for the long term gain.

But I'm a boring grown-up.

I agree with all of that. But in order to make this work, these draft picks will have to hit more than they miss. And like any FO, they will miss on picks....it's inevitable. That's not too say there are misses from the early picks...it's too early to tell. But I think there is some optimism with some of picks. Frustration in others.

Really excited with how Cooper played yesterday.

The way the FO has been able to play the waiver wire and trades make me optimistic that they can handle a draft. They picked decently well in the top 100 too.

He is a potentially very good pickup. Greco may have a tough time reclaiming his RG spot next season. Cooper and Cam together are very strong in the run game from the small sample size to date...

Agree very much with the last 2 posts (Memphis and Deputy). Sort of sums it up in a nut shell ... take away the emotion and take away trying to tell others why they might feel differently. . . bottom line this was a complete and total rebuild. I am on board with that even though this year is painful as all get up.

I'll give the plan at least one more year without changing or tweaking it. Whiffing on Dak Prescott isn't going to make me change my mind. The decision on Wentz isn't going to make me bail. Would I prefer it if Mack and Schwartz were on the OL? Sure - but they are not, we've debated and disagree on the why ... bottom line is they are not here, and that isn't going to make me bail on the plan either.

In 2014 we had a chance to transform the roster - and we blew it with Gilbert and JFF. If this FO blows only 1/2 as bad as Farmer's draft we will still be in for an almighty struggle next year. But I think if this FO and the idea of 'continuity' is going to succeed - then they need to go ahead 100% committed to their plan ... to compromise now after the toughest part is nearly over, would be to undermine everything.

The 2016 draft is incomplete - but there are enough encouraging signs to suggest there are a more than few starters going to emerge and possibly some of them like Coleman, Ogbah and Nassib have the chance to be very good. Arm strength aside, I think Kessler played way above expectations too - and as a homer and a fan, I'm hoping for a minor miracle there. Not planning or relying on it ... just hoping, despite the odds, as a Browns fan.

QB will continue to be a huge question all off season and heading into the draft .... Personally I don't want to draft Watson, I don't want Tyrod in free agency ... I expect the QB to be a question mark at the start of next season too, as personally I would rather take Garret and a top CB or Safety, in round 1 than any of the QB's this year.

I agree - I also wondered how the players who left are performing, so based on PFF - here are some of the grades on guys we let walk (or who would not sign).

C Mack - 3rd best at position grade - 88.3
OT Schwartz - 31st at position grade - 76.8
WR Benjamin - 80th at position grade - 64.1
S Gipson - 51st at position grade - 74.4

In comparison to their replacements:

C Erving - ranked 38th - grade 37.3 (woeful - and personally the reason I believe our running game went from good to awful).
OT Pasztor - Ranked 28th - grade 77.7 (adequate)
WR Pryor - ranked 25th - Grade 80.1 .... Coleman ranked 87th - grade 60.3 (limited due to injury)
S Kindred - ranked 82nd - grade 57.2 .... Poyer ranked 66 grade - 70.4 (A real issue this year, but given Gipson's 5 year $35 million contract, I'd say it we make the right move).

This is hysterical. Thanks so much for the laugh. I needed it.



So, insinuating that mac is a whiny, spoiled child is being a grown up?

Can I play that game? Thanks.


I am a grown-up and can think for myself.

You can tell me that Santa Claus exists, but I'll remain skeptical until I actually see him. You know, because I am a grown-up.

I don't believe in childish fairy tales just because I'm told to believe. I like to have factual evidence that the plan is working before I say I am all-in and proclaim that "these guys get it."

That's probably because I am a boring grown-up and don't believe everything that others tell me like a stars-in-my-eyes child.

I am grown enough to evaluate each move individually rather than make a too early evaluation like these guys need to be fired or these guys have a great plan that will certainly succeed down the road. As a grown-up, I think it is more sound to analyze the situation rather than simply believe in what others tell me.

I know that isn't very much fun for the children. I get they want to believe in everything Honest Haslam has to tell them. It's like magic dust, sugar plums fairies, and toys under every tree to believe unconditionally.

But, as a grown-up, I have learned not to be so trusting and to actually use logic and reason to formulate my opinions. So, so boring.

Awesome football take. Really raising the quality of the contributions to the board which is what so many of your posts are about.

Can he claim the RG3 spot by any chance?

Did you say that to Deputy?

Even you might be able to realize that I parodied his post, right?

U mentioned in the game day thread I never join in to defend Mac and yourself and give the FO a free pass but rip Hue weekly ... there's reasons for that ...

I HAVE and DO rip the FO .. i'm sure there's not a poster on the board that doesn't know i think there DOOMED TO FAIL .. i've used that phrase at least 25 times since i came back ....

- I read mac about once every 30 of his posts and usually quit reading half way through cause its the same post he made last week, last month and quite frankly since the day i came back ... JUST LIKE I don't read guys like Deputy and Arch and 3 or 4 others cause all they seem to want to do is "fight" with U and/or mac ...

Thats not why i come to the board bro ... that CRAP is a waste of time IMO ..

I have also made my thoughts perfectly clear on the FO since day 1 ...

- I think MONEYBALL has ZERO CHANCE ...

- I think having a LAWYER and a BASEBALL guy running the football side of your team is MORONIC and DOOMED TO FAILURE ...

- I think having someone with 7 or 8 years TOTAL EXPERIENCE as your #1 football guy is PLAIN STUPID ...

- I also point out the mistakes I think Hue is making on a week to week basis ... and once again yesterday I am miffed as to why Crow had 3 or 4 carries int he FIRST HALF ... and this has been a re-occurring theme the last 6 weeks or more ... he hasn't GIVEN it a chance ... he was almost forced into giving Crow some carries in the 3rd Q because of how succesful the first couple were ...

U won't hear a word about his time mgmt. from me this week unless u force me to re-hash what else i believe he has done wrong or simply has sucked at so far ...

So there's why bro ... plus i know u don't need no help .. your a big boy and have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that u can take care of yourself ... ..

Just thought i'd give u an explanation ..

1. There was perhaps 5-10% of Deputy's post that was personal and not a football take. 100% of your's was unrelated to football.
2. I did respond to Deputy and state in my post - leave the emotion out of it and avoid trying to guess why others they feel differently - That's directly in response to his non-football angle.
3. I don't see Deputy jumping into every topic monitoring what people write, and judging whether it is 'on topic' or football related. You are singularly the only person I see do that. But you never practice what you preach so I am happy to point that out, as I did above.
4. It doesn't matter though. Because now you'll pull out the victim card, or the bully card or group anyone who ever had a difference of opinion than you into one big group of posters card .... or maybe you'll just go on a rant.

3-13

So the Harvard boys produce a team that is winless. But we should not make any changes and continue with the same plan that produced a winless team. That's only going to give us another winless team next year.

Nice football post.

He has a point.

And by the way, you ruin more threads than I can count. Yet you blame others.

Thanks arch.

If you are drilling for oil and after drilling 50 ft you don't get any oil, do you give up and say that there isn't any oil there or do you keep drilling?

We have a habit in Cleveland of blowing it all up and starting over way to early and that hasn't worked for us either.

If you are drilling for oil and at 50 feet you discover a salt mine, you might want to reconsider adjusting your calculations.

Or you may have just found the US oil reserves.

Football is not rocket science.

1. Find a QB.

2. Get the other QB.

3. Have a system, and keep to it.

4. Keep as many of your good players as you can.

5. Sign established players that fill an immediate void, draft to fill the void.

The have failed on items 1 to 4 and 5 is meaningless.

The Browns have had one of the best OLs in the league for nearly 10 years and have still been double digit losers. The biggest problems for the Browns is no QB and lack of stability. And the lack of stability has caused the Browns to miss on the QB repeatedly.

That doesn't mean the FO should dismiss the OL the way it did this past year, but the Browns have been protecting the QB for 10 years and still sucked.

Just find the QB and everything else will fall into place.

December 13. It's the one year anniversary of the last time the Browns won a game.

How about having factual evidence that the plan is not going to work then before complaining about it?

OK you asked I will give you my opinion.

For this front office the 2016 season will go down in history as their first year of NFL experience. In the positions they are in I agree with you 100 percent.



They have performed like a front office with no experience in the positions they were handed. There is not enough information to make that decision. Your acting like a 15 year old boy in a whore house. Have some patience.

Does the front office continue to rely on some bogus excuse they made up, that they are trying to change "the culture"? If they want to change the culture, try selecting players who will become the "building blocks" of your franchise... 1st off You just made up that "BOGUS crap. 2nd as far as the Building blocks comment see my comment about the whore house.

...you don't build a winner on the WR position, when there are so many other needs that should have been addressed first. You build a winner by filling ALL of your needs which could not be done in one or two seasons with the roster we had.

I would love to hear this front office admit they made mistakes and the best way to change the culture is to win. Sure we need to win I agree. But going 0-16 this year, or 2-14, 3-13, or 4-12. Won't make a damn bit of difference going forward. 0-16 is no different than 4-12. They both suck.

This is the team The Harvard Boys built..0-13..they need to man-up and accept their responsibility for the roster they created. Have you ever once heard them say they don't accept their responsibility.

Personally, I think Moneyball will be a failure.

I think Jackson is a good enough coach, but has a very poor front office and those making the picks will end up giving him trash that will result in him failing here because he was never given the tools to succeed.

I'll stand by it....if this team goes 0-16 you HAVE to clean house....There is absolutely nothing positive to build on an 0-16 season, and you can't send the message to the players in the locker room the idea that "its no big deal if we don't win a game" because if you keep the current staff in place after an 0-16 season that's EXACTLY the message your sending...that its "ok to lose" and we will never turn things around here with that mentality.

Sashi Brown should have been fired the day he told the media "This season isn't about wins or losses" thats simply loser mentality, that should NEVER be acceptable under any circumstances. Do you have any idea what kinda message that sends to your players? that losing is ok? unreal.

The sad thing is, Haslam handed over control of this team, and in doing so has done irreparable harm to us that is going to take YEARS to recover from.

The losses of Mack, Schwartz, and Tashaun Gipson was huge...we spent years developing these players and bringing them up.

Gipson in particular really hurts, he is far better then any safety we have on the roster, and everything doesn't show up in stat books like INTS, and tackle...his presense...he was such an under rated player here...he was only 26 years old....such a blown opportunity for us.

Schwartz and Mack, both players we drafted and brought up, that had many good years left and were consider some of the best in their position with Mack and Schwartz above average...what a blow...these are not just guys you can replace like nothing in the draft...great and good OL are very hard to find...many of you relaly have no idea how much these 2 losses have set us back...it took us 3 years to develop Schwartz into an above average Right Tackle, and Mack was a once every 6-7 years Center to come out of the draft...what dolts...if Moneyball wasn't in charge of the Browns we probably would have been able to at least keep Mack...

I don't see us winning a game this year....I hope we are able to win 1-2 but i sincerely doubt it...i wasn't far off the mark when i said 1-15...but after looking at this garbage...i don't see a winnable game on the schedule short of a miracle....

We need to replace Sashi with a NFL Executive from another team, we need to replace Depodesta with a real GM...one who is a football person that has worked with other teams, maybe keep Sashi around to do salary cap stuff, but we need football people building our roster here...at worst case keep Hue and giving him a viable NFL front office that will pick us quality players....i don't see Moneyball working here...I don't see how...football is nothing like baseball....

No no no no no my friend ...

You are a homer ... i'm just a realist ... *LOL* ... ...

Good to see u back my friend .. glad to be having the same argument we've been having for what ... 15 years now .... *L* ...

I missed u bro ....

There has been some factual evidence. Don't get pissy w/me just because I don't stick my head in the sand.

The Cleveland Browns have signed DL Gabe Wright to the active roster from the club’s practice squad.

Posted 1 hour ago


In addition, the team signed WR Mario Alford to the practice squad. LB Scooby Wright III was signed by Arizona off the Browns’ practice squad.

Wright is 6-2, 284 pounds and officially in his second NFL season out of Auburn. Originally selected by Detroit in the fourth round of the 2015 draft, he has appeared in 10 career games. Wright has appeared in three games with the Browns this season and spent eight weeks on the club’s practice squad. A native of Columbus, Ga., Wright graduated from Carver High School.

Alford is 5-8, 177 pounds and officially in his second NFL season out of West Virginia. Originally selected by Cincinnati in the seventh round of the 2015 draft, Alford has appeared in one game and recorded one catch for 15 yards. He spent four weeks on the Jets’ practice squad this season. He is a native of Greenville, Ga.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...dd-41ca98454116

And that is what boneheads don't get. There are any anymore.


The spread has been in HS and College football for 15 years now. Maybe more.


NFL coaches can want what they want, but they are going to get what they get.


They can keep hoping HS coaches start to change their views, but the reality is the KIDS don't want to be pocket passers anymore. They want to roll out with run/read options, run for a few TD's and Pass for a few TD's.



I said this maybe near 10 years ago. It isn't going to change at the HS and college level. The NFL is going to have to change. Heck, all the young up and commer coaches are, or will be former HS spread option coaches. At some point soon enough, NFL owners won't be able to hire a coach who knows a "pro" set O.


It's a slow death, but the Pro-Set is dead. Soon, you won't even have coaches who can coach it.


I made a nice life paying attention to trends. See where you think things are going, and buy in early. I hit on McDonalds in the 70's, Amazon 18 years ago. You wouldn't believe what a $8,000 investment is worth today. Football is no different.


You have to see trends.

I think you are way off base w/that comment.

I have read your takes over the years on this topic. We just disagree.

My view is that collegiate coaches should not change what they are doing, but that stuff doesn't work in the NFL due to team speed.