Yes Watson kind of reads the defense, but his reads are simplified to make the offense easier to run so they can run the offense fast. He does a great job of making pre-snap reads, but he isn't asked to read much post-snap. His reads post-snap are limited to pretty basic things. He is still making post-snap reads, but they aren't very complex so we don't have film of him executing a play where he has to make a complex decision after the snap. NFL teams will bring him in on a visit and run him through the plays they think he may struggle with and determine how he will handle it from that.
Quarterbacks from "spread offenses" struggle to perform well in the NFL because in the NFL you need to consistently make the right decision on something very complex (and it all happens in about 2 seconds). Spread offenses essentially make it so QB's don't have to make a decision by making things really simple and easy for them. Clemson runs a "spread offense" but it isn't designed just to make things easy for the QB, they do run some plays that force Watson into making a decision. Watson can execute simplified decisions at a very high level, which is a positive. His biggest struggle should come in making complex decisions because he really doesn't have much experience there yet.
First pass it looks like the WR fell down so that's not his fault. Nice play by CB though.
Second pass was a nice throw with good velocity on a quick read and pass.
36s I think its important to note that he goes through progression from left to right before hitting #7 in stride to gain YAC.
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Third pass his stance is too wide and he is twisting his body to throw it instead of stepping into the pass and thus a wild and sloppy throw due to bad technique.
55s Don't see any issues with his footwork or throwing motion on this throw. I don't think the throw was wild or sloppy. The receiver is covered. #8 did not separate from his CB at all. I consider this a safe and purposeful overthrow.
Also, if you can zoom w/ your phone or computer and enlarge the gif for this play...you can again see Watson calmly work through his progression from left to right; he resets and throws in rhythm.
On the first one you could be right but to me it looks like he is doing a quick look off and then throwing to his primary target. Its a very quick passing time of about 2 seconds which usually means he already knew where he was going before he snapped. Either way I thought it was a good pass and gave him credit for it =)
On the second one his feet are too far apart and he does what I call a shoulder hop. Other people probably call it something else. No biggie. You can clearly see him throw his shoulders up as he is throwing almost like a basketball motion before you shoot a long basket. It's not a smooth and follow through motion from the side of the head with the weight shifting forward into the throw. This tend to have a negative effect on ball accuracy. You can clearly see it cause him to grossly overthrow the WR.
I watch the video on a big screen TV through my computer so I don't miss very much detail wise if the video quality is up for it =)
I don't want to get into the place where we both state our opinions at facts back and forth to each other. But, I completely disagree with your assessment of his footwork and throwing motion on play 55s.
-On both 36s/55s you can see him going through his progression before making the throw.
-Also, Watson's average release time is 2.11s.
-And again the Receiver wasn't open. Also i think the overthrow was on purpose. The DB(s) are in better position to intercept that pass then the receiver would be to make the catch. If that ball isn't overthrown its more likely an interception then a catch.
I don't want to get into the place where we both state our opinions at facts back and forth to each other. But, I completely disagree with your assessment of his footwork and throwing motion on play 55s.
-On both 36s/55s you can see him going through his progression before making the throw.
-Also, Watson's average release time is 2.11s.
-And again the Receiver wasn't open. Also i think the overthrow was on purpose. The DB(s) are in better position to intercept that pass then the receiver would be to make the catch. If that ball isn't overthrown its more likely an interception then a catch.
NP we can agree to disagree =)
In general though if your average release time is that fast it means they don't have full reads but single reads and a hot throw. There just isn't time for anything more substantial than that. That is what he looks like he is doing most of the time. It doesn't mean he CAN'T read more of the field but clearly it's what they are coaching him to do for their system. He had one pass this game where I thought he did a good job of going beyond his normal read progressions and he did well on that play. I don't remember off the top of my head which one it was i just remember it gave me a good impression of him when I saw it.
Also, after watching the game a few more times now I admit my first impression of him not reading the field and just taking off was not always the case some of the times I thought he did that was clearly a designed play and I missed it the first time while watching it casually. He did do it about 2 times this game though and that is more than acceptable in my book. I mean the kid has to have some freedom to go with his gut. Still he runs like a HB looking for contact a bit too much. If he ever converted to a HB I think he would do fantastic at it to be quite honest. He has nice elusiveness and vision for running the ball. Anyways, I freely admit that during this game he was not as impatient as I first thought so I am glad I rewatched a few more times =)
If he didn't think the WR was open he should have done something else with the ball. During this game he made the same mistake several times with severely overthrowing the ball which I noted in the play by plays. Might be interesting to see how many of his yards were YAC vs pure passing yards. For this particular game I am willing to be most of his yards were YAC.
I try not to fault a player for the plays called though. I just look at the technique used in executing the play because a player has to do what the coach's game plan for. No fears, I plan to watch more games as time allows. It was purely random that I chose this particular game to talk about so please don't think this game is the only basis for my opinions. I still haven't seen enough of trubs games yet either. I HAD to watch Kiz since my father is a ND nut.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
In general though if your average release time is that fast it means they don't have full reads but single reads and a hot throw.
I am not sure what you mean exactly when you use the terms full reads vs single reads and a hot throw. But throwing quickly doesn't equate to simple or single read passing game. Brady, Dalton and Cousins play in NFL offenses that throw the ball ultra quick. Also, if you look at most of the modern passing offenses most, especially WCO, have mirrored half-field read concepts or some advanced like the Pats/Raiders have different half-field concepts one designed for a man look and the other a zone look. (Maybe we can get into a look into Clemson passing concepts)
Anyhow, back to specifics on the plays we were talking about Watson is clearly scanning through his progressions and they're full field; he even resets his feet like a WCO teaches when he gets to the go route on the backside progression.
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
Also, after watching the game a few more times now I admit my first impression of him not reading the field and just taking off was not always the case some of the times I thought he did that was clearly a designed play and I missed it the first time while watching it casually. He did do it about 2 times this game though and that is more than acceptable in my book.... Anyways, I freely admit that during this game he was not as impatient as I first thought so I am glad I rewatched a few more times =)
That's why I look forward to these types of breakdowns and discussions. I'm always looking to understand other peoples views on film. Disagree or agree I always learn something from other peoples examples or takes on plays. And I really think the perception of Watson is different from the reality when watching him on film.
I'm trying to recall which plays where he took off early from this game...which plays did he take off? (i'll screen cap)
4th pass is another single read quick pass. The wr just stops and sits after coming back to the ball. This was designed this way but if they hit in stride it's a lot better play.
102s the receiver does gain yards after the catch. Also you can't throw a stop route 'in stride' because the receiver is stationary but Watson does hit him in rhythm.
Also #13 is the 1st read in the progression on this play but its not single read play. And Its a similar concept to play 36s: where you see Watson turns down #13 running a quick hitch/stop route on the frontside progression and throws a strike to the backside, from a muddy that hits #7 in stride.
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
5th pass again with the body twist instead of stepping into the throw. The wr makes the catch after having to fight for it. Please note he has to run facing backwards instead of having the ball drop into the basket while he is on the run.
1:11 Again disagree with your view of his mechanics on this play, he does step into the throw. Also, I think Watson puts the ball where he wants it on this play. Williams does not win on the go route. He does not separate from #12 on this throw. For many QBs/coaches this is a throw that should be turned down. BUT Watson makes a throw that beats the coverage, instead of leading the WR up the sideline he's throws it short and gives his receiver (who is a beast) a chance to make play. BUT giving your WR a chance to make a play when they are covered also leads to INTs when they don't make the play. Good throw...great catch.
Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
6th pass he has his feet in a very wide stance and hopping around for another wild throw due to bad technique. It was a zone throw that was simply missed.
127s Another example of a full field read. Plaction, read rightside first resets his feet to throw the backside go route. Watson misses this throw by a nose hair against good coverage (and there was possibly a lil bit of contact). Again, I don't see the bad technique you see.
What i personally want to see in QB footwork is that they keep their feet always directly under shoulders and that the front foot is directly under them until they throw. As they throw it then its just a natural leaning motion that draws the foot out and plants as they throw.
When their stance is too wide they can't fully step into their throw and it takes a lot of accuracy away from them.
Here is some break down of jimmy g.'s footwork watch
Sorry to bring Jimmy G. here but I just thought it was an excellent illustration. If you look at watson he often has his feet spread wider than his shoulders so instead of stepping into his throws he is leaning and then using his waist for power.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
1 read and hot throw - What I mean by this is that before the snap QB has only 2 real targets. He will quickly read his primary target and if it's not good he immediately throws to the 2nd option blind. It's not a real read beyond to see if he will be there or not. A LOT of teams do this in a fast paced offense.
I mean on a 2 second release time there is not much time to do anything else. It means you better have an ability to read the defense before snap and find that key defender of the play or those hot throws will eat you alive.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
7th pass this time he does a good job stepping into his throw for another designed run to a spot and turn to the receiver throw.
1:46 Watson's delivery on this pass looks no different then on the passes you knock him for. *shrugs*
Anyhow...this pass was higher then I would like to see.
Btw those 'designed run to spot and turn' routes are called stop routes (Hitches, Curls, Comebacks) and they are a staple in any passing offense.
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11th pass again with the wide foot stance but he doesn't put any arc to his pass to get it over the defender so it gets tipped and even if he hadn't the WR was already having to stop and come back to the ball yet again.
3:48
I agree that this is a bad pass from Watson. But for very different reasons then you. This is bad decision because Williams and Watson are not on the same page.
I don't think Watson was trying to throw 'over' the CB at all and I don't think throwing the ball with more arc like you said would have been the right choice because the Williams didn't win against the CB AND Hooker is giving the CB safety help over top.
Look at what happens just before the throw: Watson has his vision/read to the left/center of the field. Watson changes his vision/read to the right/Williams (and quickly resets his feet) at this point the CB is still on top of Williams IF the ball is thrown over the CB that's an interception either by the CB or Hooker.
Williams didn't have vertical separation but that creates a window for Williams to comeback to the ball unimpeded. I think Watson attempted a backshoulder throw that Williams didn't expect and the CB made a good play on knowing he had safety help.
the is ed is that in this game watson has a very hard time making passes consistently that lead the receiver. A good many routes are comebacks or very short passes. When he is asked to go deep and drop it in the bucket he is not that successful at it. They seem to recognize his passing weakness and avoid calling those types of plays very often. At least in this game. This game style sends up a lot of red flags to me. I'm working on watching some other video atm but will comeback to it later with another game most likely.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
the is ed is that in this game watson has a very hard time making passes consistently that lead the receiver. A good many routes are comebacks or very short passes. When he is asked to go deep and drop it in the bucket he is not that successful at it.
Where is the evidence of plays that required Watson to lead a receiver that he was having a ~very hard time consistently making?
The film is right in front of us to discuss, lets not make unsupported generalizations when the film is right in front us.
A good many routes in any offense are comeback routes 'very short' passes.
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They seem to recognize his passing weakness and avoid calling those types of plays very often. At least in this game.
Who is the 'they' that you assume/speculate recognize the weaknesses that you perceive but haven't supported yet? And what plays are those examples from this game?
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This game style sends up a lot of red flags to me.
You get red flags from this game? I'm still waiting to discuss the examples that specifically illustrate your opinion here.
Mike Williams is a great receiver, but separation isn't his strong point (not including pushoffs/OPI) He's much better at contested catches and back shoulder throws.
There are times to lead receivers and times not to. I think Watson does a pretty good job of trying to place the ball in the right location. Accuracy isn't always there, but as far as leading, putting it on the receiver, or throwing away from defenders I think he makes better decisions than you are suggesting.
Watson did a great job of dropping it in the bucket to his RB on the wheel route over Baker against OSU.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
Another question, how often does Watson throw it deep?
I don't know about other games but in the one I broke down it was not often and when he did he was not very successful. He had a lot of short passes that the WRs made into big yards.
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Deshaun Waston was the sixth-most-accurate QB on deep targets this season.
Being able to stretch the field does wonders for an offense, and Watson is one of the best in the nation at throwing deep. Among QBs with at least 50 deep attempts (passes traveling 20-plus yards in air), Watson ranks sixth in adjusted completion rate, at 49.4 percent, and his numbers improved as the season went on.
I'll try to get on watson's film a bit more this week ed. been really busy lately since the old lady is preparing for a 2 week business trip and things are going a little crazy ^^
You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
Diam and I broke down the Auburn game already and discussed some of those plays and his good plays also. Imho you evaluate a player by discussing ALL their plays from a game, both good and bad.
That is the worst type of pseudo analysis. You could literally cherry-pick negative plays from every Prospect and say that this play in particular is damning. A common draft mistake that mirrors a fallacy of taking a part to represent the whole. The question is how many times do these negative plays happen versus how many times a positive play happens. Showing a negative play from a prospect in a vacuum doesn't mean anything because all prospects have negative plays. I would love to have real discussion/evaluation of the QB prospects.
That is the worst type of pseudo analysis. You could literally cherry-picked negative please from every Prospect and say that display particular is damning.
Is this being translated from Chinese or something?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
That is the worst type of pseudo analysis. You could literally cherry-picked negative please from every Prospect and say that display particular is damning.
Is this being translated from Chinese or something?
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg)
2015 OU reading 
2015 OU reading+ evades sack+finds check
Louisville 2015 reads. hangs tough.